Mid-Air Collision Over New York.
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There will probably be a long series of people clamoring for more restrictions on general aviation around NYC. There always is after an accident. Never mind that the number of accidents in the air around NYC is vanishingly small compared to the number of flights.
Ignorance may be bliss for the person afflicted with it, but it can be a serious headache for everyone else.
Ignorance may be bliss for the person afflicted with it, but it can be a serious headache for everyone else.
Condolences 
Always afraid of hitting other aircraft when I fly around corridors, tho ATC would monitor it with transponder codes, it still doesnt help at the speeds we fly :/
Interesting that the pic shows the Left Main Gear is extended on the Piper Saratoga ... I wonder if it had problems? Also the mast snapped off below the MRH on the Astar - must have been a high side knock to shear off at that point there with rotor still relatively intact.
Anyway, not guessing, just wondering.
KP
Always afraid of hitting other aircraft when I fly around corridors, tho ATC would monitor it with transponder codes, it still doesnt help at the speeds we fly :/Interesting that the pic shows the Left Main Gear is extended on the Piper Saratoga ... I wonder if it had problems? Also the mast snapped off below the MRH on the Astar - must have been a high side knock to shear off at that point there with rotor still relatively intact.
Anyway, not guessing, just wondering.KP
quidquid excusatio prandium pro
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JFK, LGA, EWR airports are extremely busy with airliner traffic. Tetorboro, White Plains and god knows what else GA-wise, only add to a barely manageable workload for ATC in the greater New York control area.
The approach corridors over the city are uber-crowded with a precarious mix of heavy jets arriving from all parts of the planet, and green, well-moneyed weekend hobby pilots.
I’m only surprised this didn’t happen sooner.
The approach corridors over the city are uber-crowded with a precarious mix of heavy jets arriving from all parts of the planet, and green, well-moneyed weekend hobby pilots.
I’m only surprised this didn’t happen sooner.
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you can't avoid what you can't see. The corridor is narrow so likely no signif bank angles to clear the area., Reports now say the Piper hit the helicopter with the right wing. The helicopter was in a blind spot for the Piper and behind the helicopter the helicopter pilot couldn't see it.,
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Single accident but perhaps some lessons for future
As one who lives in Manhattan and can see the heli and small fixed wing traffic fly the Hudson VFR corridor, I must say in my opinion we here in NYC have been lucky until today. There is a lot of sightseeing tour traffic with heli tours being offered by many operators: NY Tours, All New York Tours, New York City Tours, US Helicopter, Liberty Helicopters, New York Helicopter, Viatour; are but some of the listings.
If the tour heli lifted off of the 30th street heliport and moved to the westside of the river and headed south while climbing, then the piper also headed south on the suggested west side of the river flying below the max altitude may not have seen him climbing from below his cowling until too late. Some witnesses say the piper banked at the last minute, a left?, exposing his right wing to the blades of the climbing chopper? Early speculation, but points out the weakness of voluntary radio position reports while in the corridor as VFR may not have been sufficient in this set of circumstances, as piper pilot may never have seen heli below and was approaching the climbing heli from above and behind at a greater speed.
I suggest three possibilities: required radio position w/ alt and speed reports at waypoints, required freq monitoring with check in to corridor, and, precise and set tour heli routes well designed with no corners to be cut; for discussion. Harbor traffic has required radio contact and they are going 10-20 knots not 140 knots.
If the tour heli lifted off of the 30th street heliport and moved to the westside of the river and headed south while climbing, then the piper also headed south on the suggested west side of the river flying below the max altitude may not have seen him climbing from below his cowling until too late. Some witnesses say the piper banked at the last minute, a left?, exposing his right wing to the blades of the climbing chopper? Early speculation, but points out the weakness of voluntary radio position reports while in the corridor as VFR may not have been sufficient in this set of circumstances, as piper pilot may never have seen heli below and was approaching the climbing heli from above and behind at a greater speed.
I suggest three possibilities: required radio position w/ alt and speed reports at waypoints, required freq monitoring with check in to corridor, and, precise and set tour heli routes well designed with no corners to be cut; for discussion. Harbor traffic has required radio contact and they are going 10-20 knots not 140 knots.
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wileydog3
Ths is true, it is the cause of so many accidents, blind spots kill. Always clear your blind spots...
you can't avoid what you can't see. The corridor is narrow so likely no signif bank angles to clear the area., Reports now say the Piper hit the helicopter with the right wing. The helicopter was in a blind spot for the Piper and behind the helicopter the helicopter pilot couldn't see it.,
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Spaceage,
Yes. ADS-B can do this,and so many other things.But to make the most you need both 'in' and 'out', and the latter seems to be on the back-burner.
I saw Blomburg in action, and was impressed. He seemed to do it without any notes.Can't imagine either Mayor of London being that good
Keith
Yes. ADS-B can do this,and so many other things.But to make the most you need both 'in' and 'out', and the latter seems to be on the back-burner.
I saw Blomburg in action, and was impressed. He seemed to do it without any notes.Can't imagine either Mayor of London being that good
Keith
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I am in favor of regulating this airspace, calling for a tight ATC clearance for this area...however special radar (to the ground) remote com outlets, and more controllers would be required.
I've flown over this area in airliners (as pilot) and shaken my head at the corridor concept.
There is a similiar corridor over the top of KLAX and I flew there one time and swore never to do it again. (small plane)
as a former cfiimei and current airline pilot, corridors scare the hell out of me.
I do agree that all commercial traffic should have TCAS and all planes should have mode c transponders ON.
I also encourage all pilots to have all lights on in the daytime as well as night to enhance collision avoidance.
and for descending low wing planes, always CLEAR below before the descent...often overlooked.
I've flown over this area in airliners (as pilot) and shaken my head at the corridor concept.
There is a similiar corridor over the top of KLAX and I flew there one time and swore never to do it again. (small plane)
as a former cfiimei and current airline pilot, corridors scare the hell out of me.
I do agree that all commercial traffic should have TCAS and all planes should have mode c transponders ON.
I also encourage all pilots to have all lights on in the daytime as well as night to enhance collision avoidance.
and for descending low wing planes, always CLEAR below before the descent...often overlooked.
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Good thing Bloomberg is Mayor and not BuggSmasher.
A sneer with a green twist? Nicely done.
This just in.. because of a fatal accident in NY this past week involving a woman with kids, the State is enacting legislation that forbids women with children driving southbound. No accident reported north bound so they can continue to drive northbound.
and green, well-moneyed weekend hobby pilots.
This just in.. because of a fatal accident in NY this past week involving a woman with kids, the State is enacting legislation that forbids women with children driving southbound. No accident reported north bound so they can continue to drive northbound.
PTH - You need to get out more, it is not that bad
This is a topic I can comment on as I live in the area and fly the corridor.
I won't fly the corridor on the weekend, but then I avoid any sight seeing flying on VFR weekends. If you look at mid air stats the majority occur around an airport on a VFR day, almost always on weekends. ASF has a really good report on this.
It really amazes me how many supposed pilots on here are yelling ban it.
In the mega millions of commercial movements in the NYC in the last 50 years how many collisions between GA VFR aircraft and anything but an apartment building?
TCAS - sounds fine except without regular training and pilot proficiency it is not good. (TCAS in helicopters in this airspace I suspect would be quickly turned off) I seem to remember something about that a few years back in Überlingen? Not to mention dumping a lot of cost on GA. Make it so expensive no one can fly, then you will never have a mid air. Sort of like what they are doing in Europe.
Sad to see supposed professional pilots shooting off like politicians.
20driver
I won't fly the corridor on the weekend, but then I avoid any sight seeing flying on VFR weekends. If you look at mid air stats the majority occur around an airport on a VFR day, almost always on weekends. ASF has a really good report on this.
It really amazes me how many supposed pilots on here are yelling ban it.
In the mega millions of commercial movements in the NYC in the last 50 years how many collisions between GA VFR aircraft and anything but an apartment building?
TCAS - sounds fine except without regular training and pilot proficiency it is not good. (TCAS in helicopters in this airspace I suspect would be quickly turned off) I seem to remember something about that a few years back in Überlingen? Not to mention dumping a lot of cost on GA. Make it so expensive no one can fly, then you will never have a mid air. Sort of like what they are doing in Europe.
Sad to see supposed professional pilots shooting off like politicians.
20driver
