Mid-Air Collision Over New York.
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I agree with Spaceage. Clear. But what if this was his clearing turn to the right which obscured the vision to the left?
This was an accident... a series of uniquely combined variables which created an unfortunate and fatal outcome. But it will draw those who want and believe man can create a perfect world if he just writes enough laws.
This was an accident... a series of uniquely combined variables which created an unfortunate and fatal outcome. But it will draw those who want and believe man can create a perfect world if he just writes enough laws.
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I flew this route in April with 3 pax in a 172. If my memory is up to anything, the procedure is sticking to the west side of the Hudson southbound and east side northbound (like cars on US roads). The NY class B starts at 1,100ft over the river and it was recommended to me to stick above 500ft to be clear of most of the helicopters.
I briefed my pax to do all the sight seeing and picture taking, whilst I did the flying and maintained a lookout. I did the tourist bit via the photos back at home.
The biggest issue I had at the time I flew it was the radio; you are supposed to self announce a brief location and altitude passing landmarks on the map on the common frequency (e.g. Cherokee, Intrepid, southbound at 700 feet). On the day that I flew the tourist chopper pilots were also using the frequency for all sorts of innane chatter (e.g. what's the score at the game etc etc) and requesting fuel from base. It made deciphering where traffic was almost impossible due to the constant drawl.
Gareth.
I briefed my pax to do all the sight seeing and picture taking, whilst I did the flying and maintained a lookout. I did the tourist bit via the photos back at home.
The biggest issue I had at the time I flew it was the radio; you are supposed to self announce a brief location and altitude passing landmarks on the map on the common frequency (e.g. Cherokee, Intrepid, southbound at 700 feet). On the day that I flew the tourist chopper pilots were also using the frequency for all sorts of innane chatter (e.g. what's the score at the game etc etc) and requesting fuel from base. It made deciphering where traffic was almost impossible due to the constant drawl.
Gareth.
Having a closer look at that tragic pic, is it only everything upstairs of the mast sheared off below the MRH on AS350, or has the whole transmission been ripped off the roof? Perhaps part of a main rotor blade has separated in flight after striking the right wing of piper aircraft, thus causing a massive imbalance and ripping the main transmission and everything attached to it off the AS350's roof. What happened to the piper is clear, the whole right wing has separated from the aircraft.
Anyway, again, not guessing, just wondering.
Anyway, again, not guessing, just wondering.
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Interesting that the pic shows the Left Main Gear is extended on the Piper Saratoga ... I wonder if it had problems?
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Fixed wing vs. helicopters
Back in the 70s, I too owned a PA-32 (fixed gear), kept it at Teterboro, and lived in Manhattan. Over several years, it was my pleasure to take friends and visiting relatives VFR out over that corridor to view the majesty of the island. They took the pictures. The rules were strict. On takeoff, report intentions to TEB tower, straight to the GW Bridge, turn South, stay to the right, maintain altitude (1,000 or 800 as I remember), see the passenger ships lined up below on the left, down to and around the Statue of Liberty, wave to the diners at Windows on the World in the South Twin Tower (same altitude) on the way back to the Bridge, and land again at Teterboro. This was and is a famous traditional trip, and a privilege to use safely, always keeping a good lookout of course.
To my mind, helicopters are the culprits. I think they should be treated like power boats treat sail boats. Or cars treat pedestrians. The fixed wing on this corridor should have the right of way, being unable to easily avoid surprise appearances from ... above? Underneath? Behind? Sideways?
C'mon, think about it. DON'T advocate further restrictions on VFR fixed wing flights on this particular trip.
To my mind, helicopters are the culprits. I think they should be treated like power boats treat sail boats. Or cars treat pedestrians. The fixed wing on this corridor should have the right of way, being unable to easily avoid surprise appearances from ... above? Underneath? Behind? Sideways?
C'mon, think about it. DON'T advocate further restrictions on VFR fixed wing flights on this particular trip.
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Back in the 70s, I too owned a PA-32 (fixed gear), kept it at Teterboro, and lived in Manhattan. Over several years, it was my pleasure to take friends and visiting relatives VFR out over that corridor to view the majesty of the island. They took the pictures. The rules were strict. On takeoff, report intentions to TEB tower, straight to the GW Bridge, turn South, stay to the right, maintain altitude (1,000 or 800 as I remember), see the passenger ships lined up below on the left, down to and around the Statue of Liberty, wave to the diners at Windows on the World in the South Twin Tower (same altitude) on the way back to the Bridge, and land again at Teterboro. This was and is a famous traditional trip, and a privilege to use safely, always keeping a good lookout of course.
To my mind, helicopters are the culprits. I think they should be treated like power boats treat sail boats. Or cars treat pedestrians. The fixed wing on this corridor should have the right of way, being unable to easily avoid surprise appearances from ... above? Underneath? Behind? Sideways?
C'mon, think about it. DON'T advocate further restrictions on VFR fixed wing flights on this particular trip.
To my mind, helicopters are the culprits. I think they should be treated like power boats treat sail boats. Or cars treat pedestrians. The fixed wing on this corridor should have the right of way, being unable to easily avoid surprise appearances from ... above? Underneath? Behind? Sideways?
C'mon, think about it. DON'T advocate further restrictions on VFR fixed wing flights on this particular trip.
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Fixed wing pilots need to be especially careful when you know you're working in the same airspace as helicopters.
They are small, slow,can fly crazy angles in the sky and are not bound by the laws of physics to use normal runways, taxiways and approach paths.
I fly from a small airport where helicopter movements make up the majority of movements from this airfield. So I am always wide awake when I'm sharing air with fling wings.
I don't believe more rules can solve this problem for good. I do believe constant vigilance and preparedness can help to avoid these hazards.
And then there's fate, if she wants you... thats it.
They are small, slow,can fly crazy angles in the sky and are not bound by the laws of physics to use normal runways, taxiways and approach paths.
I fly from a small airport where helicopter movements make up the majority of movements from this airfield. So I am always wide awake when I'm sharing air with fling wings.
I don't believe more rules can solve this problem for good. I do believe constant vigilance and preparedness can help to avoid these hazards.
And then there's fate, if she wants you... thats it.
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I've also flown through the VFR corridor over KLAX in a light single. It can be scary, BUT I also requested, and obtained, VFR flight following during that flight. It's not always available, due to controller work load, but it IS something you should at least request. During my flight, I had a king air pass me on the left, and was advised of this traffic both by ATC and the king air - the king air reported "traffic in sight" and passed VFR. It CAN be done and the system DOES work....as long as all parties do their job! 
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Fixed-wing pilots certainly need to be careful, but since fixed-wing has less maneuverability than helicopters, the helicopters carry a greater burden of staying out of the way of other aircraft. If a helicopter moves abruptly into the flight path of a fixed-wing, it may be hard for the fixed-wing to avoid it (although I'm not saying that that happened here). In this case, the helicopter was operating commercial and the private plane was not, so that imposes an additional burden on the helicopter, independently of the aircraft type.
There are always cries to "do something!" from people who react emotionally rather than rationally to current events. Pilots are not immune to this, even when they should know better, as several posts here demonstrate.
I suggest that nothing ever be changed in regulations for at least one year after any accident. This allows most people to overcome their emotions a bit and think with a somewhat clearer head, and it also allows the news media to move on to other stories. By waiting at least a year to "do something," people may realize that nothing really needs to be done.
It's good that Bloomberg is a pilot, but he is surrounded by non-pilots who believe that flying a private plane is an elitist, dangerous sport that should be banned. Commercial air travel is not banned when an airliner crashes because average people want access to air travel and would feel personally constrained if it disappeared, but only one person in 500 is a private pilot, so most people don't care about private, general aviation and wouldn't miss it if it were gone, so they are happy to ban it.
Be careful what you wish for.
There are always cries to "do something!" from people who react emotionally rather than rationally to current events. Pilots are not immune to this, even when they should know better, as several posts here demonstrate.
I suggest that nothing ever be changed in regulations for at least one year after any accident. This allows most people to overcome their emotions a bit and think with a somewhat clearer head, and it also allows the news media to move on to other stories. By waiting at least a year to "do something," people may realize that nothing really needs to be done.
It's good that Bloomberg is a pilot, but he is surrounded by non-pilots who believe that flying a private plane is an elitist, dangerous sport that should be banned. Commercial air travel is not banned when an airliner crashes because average people want access to air travel and would feel personally constrained if it disappeared, but only one person in 500 is a private pilot, so most people don't care about private, general aviation and wouldn't miss it if it were gone, so they are happy to ban it.
Be careful what you wish for.
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Kiwi Pilot flying the AStar
A New Zealander was flying the helicopter which collided with a plane over New York's Hudson River.
Nine people are presumed dead following the crash at 4am today (NZ Time).
Liberty Helicopters said the pilot was Jeremy Clark, 33, who had been living in New Jersey, the New York Times reported.
Mr Clark's aunt told One News his parents had gone to Auckland Airport this evening, hoping to travel to New York.
A Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokeswoman said it had not received a request for help.
It was believed Mr Clark's sightseeing helicopter, carrying five Italian tourists, was hit from behind by a small private plane carrying three people, including a child.
Debris was scattered across the water and thousands of people on the waterfront were forced to scamper for cover.
A helicopter pilot refuelling on the ground at the Liberty Tours heliport saw the plane approaching the helicopter and tried to radio an alert to the pilots, police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said. The warning wasn't heard, or didn't happen in time.
"He radioed the accident helicopter and told him, 'One-lima-hotel, you have a fixed wing behind you'," National Transportation Safety Board Chairman Deborah Hersman said on Saturday.
"There was no response."
Nine people are presumed dead following the crash at 4am today (NZ Time).
Liberty Helicopters said the pilot was Jeremy Clark, 33, who had been living in New Jersey, the New York Times reported.
Mr Clark's aunt told One News his parents had gone to Auckland Airport this evening, hoping to travel to New York.
A Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokeswoman said it had not received a request for help.
It was believed Mr Clark's sightseeing helicopter, carrying five Italian tourists, was hit from behind by a small private plane carrying three people, including a child.
Debris was scattered across the water and thousands of people on the waterfront were forced to scamper for cover.
A helicopter pilot refuelling on the ground at the Liberty Tours heliport saw the plane approaching the helicopter and tried to radio an alert to the pilots, police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said. The warning wasn't heard, or didn't happen in time.
"He radioed the accident helicopter and told him, 'One-lima-hotel, you have a fixed wing behind you'," National Transportation Safety Board Chairman Deborah Hersman said on Saturday.
"There was no response."
Kiwi pilot in New York air collision - National - NZ Herald News
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IMHO, I wonder if the chopper being black may have been a problem with the Cessna pilot not seeing it, it being a routine trip up the Hudson, would it not be better if it were painted in a more prominent colour?
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Engine Failure?
It is being reported by the Daily Mail on-line that the PA-32 had engine failure.
"The plane, a Piper PA-32, took off from Teterboro airport and reported engine failure before hitting the helicopter."
'Nine dead' after helicopter and plane collide over Hudson River | Mail Online
"The plane, a Piper PA-32, took off from Teterboro airport and reported engine failure before hitting the helicopter."
'Nine dead' after helicopter and plane collide over Hudson River | Mail Online
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IMHO, I wonder if the chopper being black may have been a problem with the Cessna pilot not seeing it, it being a routine trip up the Hudson, would it not be better if it were painted in a more prominent colour?
Regards,
Frits
Report says Cherokee Six, in which case you would be scratching your head if it wasn't extended - has fixed gear.
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RIP Jeremy Clarke + all involved
I Flew with Jeremy many times when he was working for LA Helicopters in Long Beach.
He was a consumate professional and an all round Very nice guy.
We had some good times on the ground and in the air.
He will be missed by many.
Life can be short RIP all involved
Chester
He was a consumate professional and an all round Very nice guy.
We had some good times on the ground and in the air.
He will be missed by many.
Life can be short RIP all involved
Chester
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Procedures for all aircraft flying over the Hudson and East Rivers.
http://skyvector.com/
Flight Planning and Aeronautical Charts at SkyVector.com
http://skyvector.com/
Flight Planning and Aeronautical Charts at SkyVector.com
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... and bugg smasher says... "More's the reason to make New York a TCAS mandatory airspace."
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Mid-air collision
