EBA No Guarantee
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EBA No Guarantee
Seems there are only two guarantees in life, death and taxes!
Senior management of an aspiring offshore operator in Australia has recently approached the pilot reps and requested a wage freeze as result of the current GED. The pilots were due to receive the second increase of a three tier EBA, spread over three years on July 1st 2009. Apparently the two larger offshore companies in Australia tried the same bulls#%t on their pilots, and failed.
The EBA process has been a very successful tool for both sides to negotiate salaries and conditions. It has greatly reduced the militant culture that was once so prevalent in the Australian wok place. To renege on a signed off EBA, is very un- Australian.
Surely this company did not agree to sign off on an EBA without factoring in the possibility of a slowing, or even a retraction in the economy at some time in the future. Can you imagine management offering a pay increase without negotiation when the economy bounces back? LOL
Stick to your guns gentlemen this EBA not only provides you with a fair remuneration for your services, it also forms the foundation of the other EBAs that have been negotiated throughout our industry in the past few years.
For those of us who don't speak Oz, EBA is an Enterprise Bargaining Agreement, negotiated between companies and employees.
Splot
Senior management of an aspiring offshore operator in Australia has recently approached the pilot reps and requested a wage freeze as result of the current GED. The pilots were due to receive the second increase of a three tier EBA, spread over three years on July 1st 2009. Apparently the two larger offshore companies in Australia tried the same bulls#%t on their pilots, and failed.
The EBA process has been a very successful tool for both sides to negotiate salaries and conditions. It has greatly reduced the militant culture that was once so prevalent in the Australian wok place. To renege on a signed off EBA, is very un- Australian.
Surely this company did not agree to sign off on an EBA without factoring in the possibility of a slowing, or even a retraction in the economy at some time in the future. Can you imagine management offering a pay increase without negotiation when the economy bounces back? LOL
Stick to your guns gentlemen this EBA not only provides you with a fair remuneration for your services, it also forms the foundation of the other EBAs that have been negotiated throughout our industry in the past few years.
For those of us who don't speak Oz, EBA is an Enterprise Bargaining Agreement, negotiated between companies and employees.
Splot
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This "aspiring offshore operator" sounds just like the rest of them. And maybe its "Un-Australian" way of doing business is because its not an australian company in the first place?
Dont get me wrong that does suck but there are alot of touring pilots and engineers loosing their jobs outright at the moment so a temporary wage freeze isn't so bad?
I for one am grateful im on a wage freeze and at least still have a job to bring home the groceries instead of out fighting for another job like many of my friends right now
Dont get me wrong that does suck but there are alot of touring pilots and engineers loosing their jobs outright at the moment so a temporary wage freeze isn't so bad?
I for one am grateful im on a wage freeze and at least still have a job to bring home the groceries instead of out fighting for another job like many of my friends right now
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Wage freeze?
Spareparts,
Do you work in the offshore sector in Australia, as I have heard of no one being laid off by the companies in Australia. In fact CHC are looking for Captains?
I find it a bit strange that you posted as I know the three main offshore players in Australia all asked the pilot bodies if they would delay they pay rises, which all got rejected and no one has been laid off?
Banger
Do you work in the offshore sector in Australia, as I have heard of no one being laid off by the companies in Australia. In fact CHC are looking for Captains?
I find it a bit strange that you posted as I know the three main offshore players in Australia all asked the pilot bodies if they would delay they pay rises, which all got rejected and no one has been laid off?
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Simple answer. NO!!!
Whoever the operator is, they can request all they like, it is up to the pilot group as to what they agree to. Stick together and vote no, none of the bigger operators have been successful in their requests for wage freezes or even reductions so this operator should be no different.
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I'd just like to suggest, tread carefully.
The Rudd govt in their wisdom, -stick your hands up any of you that voted them in- have abolished the EBA's as of July 1.
There was a suggestion that a new bargaining arrangement might be in place, but what is for sure is that the awards system which was always (despite vast propaganda to the contary at the last election) the security net under the old EBA is still there and is being rationalised with vigour.
That is the numbers of awards are being reduced drstically. This has left the hospitality trade still spitting chips, with the dep PM supposedly being asked for her imperial ideas,
and also the horticultural industry is left stranded.
I have not studied the pilots awards. Hopefully we won't all be working for ab-initio fixed wing rates, that is why I say take care.
Don't forget also, you labor voters, that your taxes have propped up our ailing car industry to the tune of $50,000.00 per worker in Rudd handout, all because the car industry didn't start planning for supreme efficiency well before Fannie Mae went fanny up and now they have their bleeding hands right out.
If I worked off shore I'd pick it up in US dollars, OFF SHORE.
At the end of the day votes don't count for nought when there is no loot to go around. Or I should say, the legislation has all of a sudden gone pear shaped against your direction. be careful.
Mind you i've yet to see any of our off shore exploration companies doing it tough. Oil and Gas is big down under, and getting bigger by the day.
cheers tet
The Rudd govt in their wisdom, -stick your hands up any of you that voted them in- have abolished the EBA's as of July 1.
There was a suggestion that a new bargaining arrangement might be in place, but what is for sure is that the awards system which was always (despite vast propaganda to the contary at the last election) the security net under the old EBA is still there and is being rationalised with vigour.
That is the numbers of awards are being reduced drstically. This has left the hospitality trade still spitting chips, with the dep PM supposedly being asked for her imperial ideas,
and also the horticultural industry is left stranded.I have not studied the pilots awards. Hopefully we won't all be working for ab-initio fixed wing rates, that is why I say take care.
Don't forget also, you labor voters, that your taxes have propped up our ailing car industry to the tune of $50,000.00 per worker in Rudd handout, all because the car industry didn't start planning for supreme efficiency well before Fannie Mae went fanny up and now they have their bleeding hands right out.
If I worked off shore I'd pick it up in US dollars, OFF SHORE.
At the end of the day votes don't count for nought when there is no loot to go around. Or I should say, the legislation has all of a sudden gone pear shaped against your direction. be careful.
Mind you i've yet to see any of our off shore exploration companies doing it tough. Oil and Gas is big down under, and getting bigger by the day.
cheers tet
Last edited by topendtorque; 2nd Jul 2009 at 12:49.
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TET
Thanks for your words of caution.
This particular EBA was agreed on by both parties over twelve months ago, so one would asume that it would hold up in any industrial resolution?
Re the Oil and Gas producers I couldnt agree more, they may be crying poor but it is all smoke and mirrors. Oil is still hovering around the $60 mark and Australia has an unlimited market for gas (India, China).
Australian Helicopter pilots have come a long way in the past few years with regards to salaries and conditions by uniting their efforts. By sticking together,this trend will continue.
Thanks for your words of caution.
This particular EBA was agreed on by both parties over twelve months ago, so one would asume that it would hold up in any industrial resolution?
Re the Oil and Gas producers I couldnt agree more, they may be crying poor but it is all smoke and mirrors. Oil is still hovering around the $60 mark and Australia has an unlimited market for gas (India, China).
Australian Helicopter pilots have come a long way in the past few years with regards to salaries and conditions by uniting their efforts. By sticking together,this trend will continue.
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Bladebanger
I do work for the Offshore sector but not in australia. So my reference isn't just to australia about layoffs. I was speaking more globally. Its good that you guys are really busy and there are no layoffs but i just dont see it something to get so fired up about.
Companies in all industries across the world are using this recession excuse to cut employee costs and make current employees work harder for the same pay. (The uppers lost alot on their stocks so they need to pad their bonuses in my opinion
)
Companies will always try to pull this crap when they find an excuse and thats why you guys have a union so it shouldn't come to you as such a shock. Believe in your union to pull through for you. isn't that why you pay your dues?
I do work for the Offshore sector but not in australia. So my reference isn't just to australia about layoffs. I was speaking more globally. Its good that you guys are really busy and there are no layoffs but i just dont see it something to get so fired up about.
Companies in all industries across the world are using this recession excuse to cut employee costs and make current employees work harder for the same pay. (The uppers lost alot on their stocks so they need to pad their bonuses in my opinion
)Companies will always try to pull this crap when they find an excuse and thats why you guys have a union so it shouldn't come to you as such a shock. Believe in your union to pull through for you. isn't that why you pay your dues?
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Bristow Australia currently has half a dozen or so guys working out their final tour before retrenchment, brought in from around the world on a promise, one found out about his redundancy from a colleague on Facebook.... how f#*ked is that?
Originally Posted by tet
The Rudd govt in their wisdom, -stick your hands up you dimwits that voted them in- have abolished the EBA's as of July 1.
The WorkChoices legislation has been abolished, as of today, to introduce Labor's fluffy Union-centric "Fair Work Bill". EBA's remain, but the Unions now have the 'right' to interfere and negotiate on your behalf: like it or not
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No Aussies left!
Where did they all go?
CHC Australia - National One USA.
Bristow Australia - Air Logistics USA
Jayrow - ?? United Kingdom
Helicopters Australia - HNZ New Zealand
If you have a solid job in today’s fragile economic offshore period and you have not been told you are redundant, then knuckle down and ride it out.
If you are old enough to remember the pathetic advice that pilots received by their Red Neck leaders back in the infamous pilot strike, then you will well know that to sit down and make a plan with the hand that feeds you, is far better than trying to cross swords.
CHC Australia - National One USA.
Bristow Australia - Air Logistics USA
Jayrow - ?? United Kingdom
Helicopters Australia - HNZ New Zealand
If you have a solid job in today’s fragile economic offshore period and you have not been told you are redundant, then knuckle down and ride it out.
If you are old enough to remember the pathetic advice that pilots received by their Red Neck leaders back in the infamous pilot strike, then you will well know that to sit down and make a plan with the hand that feeds you, is far better than trying to cross swords.
Movin' up,
Are these guys permanent employees of BHA or Contractors/Casuals?? If they are the former then that is pretty bad. If they are the latter then that's the chance or path you take when you choose to accept the terms and conditions offered as contractor/casual employee. These terms and conditions are usually better to compensate for the lack of permanence or long term security.
Please corrct me if I'm wrong.
I remember when the contractor/casual captain positions were available with BHA not too long ago and they looked pretty attractive. I chose to stay where I am to keep a permanent job.
Are these guys permanent employees of BHA or Contractors/Casuals?? If they are the former then that is pretty bad. If they are the latter then that's the chance or path you take when you choose to accept the terms and conditions offered as contractor/casual employee. These terms and conditions are usually better to compensate for the lack of permanence or long term security.
Please corrct me if I'm wrong.
I remember when the contractor/casual captain positions were available with BHA not too long ago and they looked pretty attractive. I chose to stay where I am to keep a permanent job.
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23AG EBA's and lay-off's & GHPA
1stly to those poor Aussies touring overseas.....as of July 1st just past this current government has screwed you! 23AG the foreign sourced income tax exemption has been abolished! You now get a tax credit for any tax paid in the country you work in and the rest is taxed at the full marginal tax rate in Australia ...Thanks K.Rudd.
Next EBA's are not perfect but they beat having nothing and once agreed they should be adhered to by both parties!
The lay-off's at BHA were for blokes on foreign validations, not permanent pilots.
In other news The GHPA (Global Helicopter Pilots Association) representing the Pilots of CHC Global has won it's right to be certified as the bargaining unit for the pilot body. CHC fought their application through the courts for the last 3 years. Hopefully the company might just accept the ruling this time...but then gain...perhaps not!
Next EBA's are not perfect but they beat having nothing and once agreed they should be adhered to by both parties!
The lay-off's at BHA were for blokes on foreign validations, not permanent pilots.
In other news The GHPA (Global Helicopter Pilots Association) representing the Pilots of CHC Global has won it's right to be certified as the bargaining unit for the pilot body. CHC fought their application through the courts for the last 3 years. Hopefully the company might just accept the ruling this time...but then gain...perhaps not!
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Stick to your guns.
If you have an EBA in place then both parties are legally bound to adhere to the conditions contained within it, plain and simple.
Just because the 'aspiring' company may choose to try it on really does not hold any water. The employees in this case merely need to say 'no thanks we will stick to the status quo' and their pay increment will still have to be delivered.
As has been said already, both BHA and CHC management have apparently tried this one on already and were politley told 'no thanks' by their Pilots.
The requirement from companies to reneg on a pay increase or other condition in an EBA is due either to lack of cash flow or the protection of the profit margin. It has very little, if anything, to do with redundancies unless the company is in a really dire financial condition.
If the company try to spin the 'we are in financial strife' line then just ask them to prove it by showing your Pilot Reps the books to prove their case. I 'll bet they go quiet pretty quick and you'll get your increment.
Existing contracts also tend to have escalation clauses within them to allow for the renegotiation of rates between the company and the client. However, it is much easier for the company to cut costs internally by attempting to reneg on an existing EBA deal rather than go to the client and ask for more cash.
Stick to your guns 'aspiring' Pilots.
Just because the 'aspiring' company may choose to try it on really does not hold any water. The employees in this case merely need to say 'no thanks we will stick to the status quo' and their pay increment will still have to be delivered.
As has been said already, both BHA and CHC management have apparently tried this one on already and were politley told 'no thanks' by their Pilots.
The requirement from companies to reneg on a pay increase or other condition in an EBA is due either to lack of cash flow or the protection of the profit margin. It has very little, if anything, to do with redundancies unless the company is in a really dire financial condition.
If the company try to spin the 'we are in financial strife' line then just ask them to prove it by showing your Pilot Reps the books to prove their case. I 'll bet they go quiet pretty quick and you'll get your increment.
Existing contracts also tend to have escalation clauses within them to allow for the renegotiation of rates between the company and the client. However, it is much easier for the company to cut costs internally by attempting to reneg on an existing EBA deal rather than go to the client and ask for more cash.
Stick to your guns 'aspiring' Pilots.
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You lose credibility when you push your own political agenda.
maybe the car industry learnt from the farmers and pastorlists how to scam....
maybe the car industry learnt from the farmers and pastorlists how to scam....
With regard to your advice, thank you, but I take the view that I admire those who have the courage to articulate the strength of their own convictions, as you have.
Which is a slight paradox from your side if you don't mind me saying.
It's a very common trait on these forums.
It is also is something that a trainee pilot will demonstrate to me before he gets any ticks in any box, yes sir. You know, can he make a blessed decision and will he act on it. Of course is it the right one is coloured right up there.
My intemperate language admittedly was off the pace for the general respectful tone of the pprune rotorheads forum. I am happy to amend that.
The rest is fact and I am constantly stymied as to why more people don't examine fact before they cast their spell upon the, -- sorry vote-- upon their brethren.
As far as the primary production sector in OZ having capacity to scam to their own benefit, well obviously your suite is very short in that field.
You can be outstanding in the field and still come home with little more than crumbs. pun intended.
It's the Euro and US farmers that are paid subs to plough, plant, and plough in crops and then the surplus is used to trade against the dear old aussie farmer who does it unsibsidised. Not much wonder they have a very high suicice rate.
Most of aviation in oz works on the same pitch.
It was rather amusing to note that it was one the unions of oz that took advantage of the work choices dismissal laws (and found themselves well noted in national media) to sack a few of their staff on the knocker of the legislations' final day. you get that!
cheers tet
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Guess you have a reverse vested interest in our salary package.
We have just been asked to consider placing our July incremental increase on hold for a yet indeterminate period.
Still thinking about that proposal.
But as I am paid a heap more than a more senior mate in the company next door, and they have just retrenched a small group, think I will just shut up.
Our Reps have yet to say much, but as we were only advised about the proposal today that is not unexpected.
Don’t bother trying to scaremonger the masses, as we are fat dumb and happy in paradise.
We have just been asked to consider placing our July incremental increase on hold for a yet indeterminate period.
Still thinking about that proposal.
But as I am paid a heap more than a more senior mate in the company next door, and they have just retrenched a small group, think I will just shut up.
Our Reps have yet to say much, but as we were only advised about the proposal today that is not unexpected.
Don’t bother trying to scaremonger the masses, as we are fat dumb and happy in paradise.