Flight Instructing in the UK
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Yes, it's a joke. But there is always someone who is willing to work for peanuts to get hours or put up with cr*p to get a sniff of some turbine work. And there is always the FI who lives 2 minutes away from the school who doesn't want to move anywhere else, etc.
The Original Whirly
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I've aways been paid full rate (still £40/hour where I am) if one of my students was flying solo. You may also get paid a little bit if you're a QHI supervising a restricted FI - about £10 per hour. This can up your hourly rate a bit. However, that hardly adds up to anything regular, or never has for me.
Having tried both, I'd say instructing is a great part time job so long as you have a second string to your bow, but a lousy (and totally knackering) way to try to make a living...unless you're extremely lucky.
Having tried both, I'd say instructing is a great part time job so long as you have a second string to your bow, but a lousy (and totally knackering) way to try to make a living...unless you're extremely lucky.
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Instruction
Over 600 hours in my first year as an FI, including in excess of 60 hours per month for the last 4 months - pretty good for the winter months and in these tough times as well. I would argue with anyone who suggests you cannot make a career out of instructing. I have found it exceptionally fulfilling and enjoyable.
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Same here, 500hrs in my first year of instructing. Its a fine way to earn a living, and I get charter mixed in with that. I do spend lots of time travelling about the country though, but I am flying for a living and that suits me just fine
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my own experience is that when you first instruct its great, being paid to fly for a living, it feels like the best job in the world.
but somewhere around 1000 hours instruction it does start to do your head in and can feel mundane with the endless cycles of flights last just about 1 hour, and you start to resent working so hard for such unpredictable but never high returns
you give so much of yourself and sometimes get so little back, as a full time job i dont think its good and agree with whirlybird that as an add on to something else, whether that be charter or some other flying job or even something non-aviation its fine.
CF
but somewhere around 1000 hours instruction it does start to do your head in and can feel mundane with the endless cycles of flights last just about 1 hour, and you start to resent working so hard for such unpredictable but never high returns
you give so much of yourself and sometimes get so little back, as a full time job i dont think its good and agree with whirlybird that as an add on to something else, whether that be charter or some other flying job or even something non-aviation its fine.
CF
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I completely agree. Instructing is fun at first, but it grinds you down as you approach 1,000 hours, then you realise you are never going to be able to have a decent quality of life on £25,000 a year, let alone pay any debts off. You will also realise that once you get 500-1000 piston hours, any more is a waste of time. No-one in the industry gives a t*ss about how many you've got.
Instructing can be great fun, but unless it's mixed in with charter/other work, it's a hobby that pays a little bit.
No holidays, no pension, always working weekends, no security, endless 0.5 hour trial lessons, always knackered, weather cancellations etc.
Sorry to be so negative, the industry shouldn't be like that, but it is.
Instructing can be great fun, but unless it's mixed in with charter/other work, it's a hobby that pays a little bit.
No holidays, no pension, always working weekends, no security, endless 0.5 hour trial lessons, always knackered, weather cancellations etc.
Sorry to be so negative, the industry shouldn't be like that, but it is.
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Hello. I don't want to start new thread just for this, but, would any UK heli FTO consider JAA CPL as enough for 'introductory flights'? As a way of random slow way to help out struggling grads who'd be broke, with some loans, only going to get another loan (if) for FI rating later on once eligible according to JAA FCL rules to start FI rating..
Should I presume that FTOs want potential PPL students to fly with instructor so it's loggable as dual towards PPL? Or insurance. Or simply assigning instructors to these as they're in need of some cash and TT/PIC hours anyway (the words of 'endless stream of .5 intros brings this whole question as I've seen the instructor's face when he was told to do .3ish intro)
I know it's very slim chance, but this seriously puts me off from actually trying to achieve things and get a job in the UK flying helis (I will succeed eventually somewhere, but..). Things aren't getting easier regarding training and further instructing in the US either and most other countries abroad are not worth thinking of for starters either..
On topic: Yeah, I'm just 'modular of a decade (long)' kind of student, but if given choice of buzzing around pattern, doing autos and couple XC flights mostly/only in R22 on wages not so great (whatever satisfaction it brings from teaching) and flying beautiful bigger helicopters on double, triple or later bigger multiple of the current earnings, it's kinda no-brainer for most. Plus, there's the own family support and loans factor as well.
Should I presume that FTOs want potential PPL students to fly with instructor so it's loggable as dual towards PPL? Or insurance. Or simply assigning instructors to these as they're in need of some cash and TT/PIC hours anyway (the words of 'endless stream of .5 intros brings this whole question as I've seen the instructor's face when he was told to do .3ish intro)
I know it's very slim chance, but this seriously puts me off from actually trying to achieve things and get a job in the UK flying helis (I will succeed eventually somewhere, but..). Things aren't getting easier regarding training and further instructing in the US either and most other countries abroad are not worth thinking of for starters either..
On topic: Yeah, I'm just 'modular of a decade (long)' kind of student, but if given choice of buzzing around pattern, doing autos and couple XC flights mostly/only in R22 on wages not so great (whatever satisfaction it brings from teaching) and flying beautiful bigger helicopters on double, triple or later bigger multiple of the current earnings, it's kinda no-brainer for most. Plus, there's the own family support and loans factor as well.
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MartinCh,
I may be looking at this too simply but if you are doing an "introductory flight" it is either a trial lesson or it isnt.
if it is a trial lesson you need an FI rating, if it isnt a trial lesson then its a commercial flight and you would need to fly for AOC holder and have OPC + line check etc.
as far as I know thats it or am i missing something?
CF
I may be looking at this too simply but if you are doing an "introductory flight" it is either a trial lesson or it isnt.
if it is a trial lesson you need an FI rating, if it isnt a trial lesson then its a commercial flight and you would need to fly for AOC holder and have OPC + line check etc.
as far as I know thats it or am i missing something?
CF
The Original Whirly
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MartinCh,
I'm certain Camp Freddie is right...well, he should be; he's been in this industry far longer than I have. Interestingly, this came up for me quite recently. I was asked to take someone for a flight in a privately owned helicopter, as the owner couldn't do it. Although I have an FI rating, the machine wasn't on a licensed airfield; therefore this couldn't be a trial lesson. And although I have a CPL, I couldn't be paid for it, as it wasn't being done under an AOC ( and I'm too old anyway). Therefore I could only take her up as any ordinary PPL would do - for free. Weird thing, Air Law.
Back on topic...I instructed fulltime for a while, and absolutely loved it. Then we had a hard winter, and I watched all the money I'd earned dwindle. I also I began to see the downsides - unpredictable work and pay, never having weekends off, no social life. I'd turned my hobby into a job, and it was beginning to be just that - a job. And it took me less than 1000 hours actually. But then, I always did get bored quickly!
Finally I switched to part time, and the magic started to come back. I now thoroughly enjoy it again, and if we get rained off or have no students, I have another way of earning a living. If I was younger I'd be planning to move on to commericial flying to get a different challenge, but the CAA in their great wisdom says I'm too old, so flying-wise this is a dead end for me.
I don't really care; I have other things going on in my life. I decided fairly late in life that I wanted to be an instructor, despite people telling me I was mad and would never do it - well, I did, and I enjoyed it. 
Of course, everyone's different. If I had my time over again I wouldn't do anything any differently anyway....I had a fantastic few years, and still enjoy what I do. Just don't expect things never to change.
I'm certain Camp Freddie is right...well, he should be; he's been in this industry far longer than I have. Interestingly, this came up for me quite recently. I was asked to take someone for a flight in a privately owned helicopter, as the owner couldn't do it. Although I have an FI rating, the machine wasn't on a licensed airfield; therefore this couldn't be a trial lesson. And although I have a CPL, I couldn't be paid for it, as it wasn't being done under an AOC ( and I'm too old anyway). Therefore I could only take her up as any ordinary PPL would do - for free. Weird thing, Air Law.
Back on topic...I instructed fulltime for a while, and absolutely loved it. Then we had a hard winter, and I watched all the money I'd earned dwindle. I also I began to see the downsides - unpredictable work and pay, never having weekends off, no social life. I'd turned my hobby into a job, and it was beginning to be just that - a job. And it took me less than 1000 hours actually. But then, I always did get bored quickly!
Finally I switched to part time, and the magic started to come back. I now thoroughly enjoy it again, and if we get rained off or have no students, I have another way of earning a living. If I was younger I'd be planning to move on to commericial flying to get a different challenge, but the CAA in their great wisdom says I'm too old, so flying-wise this is a dead end for me.
I don't really care; I have other things going on in my life. I decided fairly late in life that I wanted to be an instructor, despite people telling me I was mad and would never do it - well, I did, and I enjoyed it. Of course, everyone's different. If I had my time over again I wouldn't do anything any differently anyway....I had a fantastic few years, and still enjoy what I do. Just don't expect things never to change.
And although I have a CPL, I couldn't be paid for it, as it wasn't being done under an AOC ( and I'm too old anyway).
How do you think corporate operations work ?
Private individual or company owned aircraft with commercial pilot in the front, usually have no connection to an AOC.
The owner or operator could pay you to fly his aircraft.
Last edited by VeeAny; 26th Apr 2009 at 11:44.
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And although I have a CPL, I couldn't be paid for it, as it wasn't being done under an AOC.
I think it's also to do with whether the passenger is paying for his flight.
Cheers
Whirls
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Well, I'm not sure how often or how much flying (and not 'based' all around the UK) could be done as paid or unpaid chauffeur of R44 owner. I doubt owners of turbine choppers would want fresh CPL fly them. Then there's my feeling that R44 owners would be pilots themselves - I guess most of them.
I try, but after my studies and bit more of saving, I can't see myself willing to 'waste' yet another few years not flying much. Hence me going to do some planks flying as well (to keep me sane).
I try, but after my studies and bit more of saving, I can't see myself willing to 'waste' yet another few years not flying much. Hence me going to do some planks flying as well (to keep me sane).
