Super Puma down central North Sea Feb 2009
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Withdrawal of emergency beacons
As one of the guys being ferried around, I thought the whole point of the PLB was that it is Personal Locator Beacon - meaning that if the worst happens and the chopper goes down, if I manage to get out of it before it sinks then the SAR guys can find ME - personally!! If the chopper doesnt sink and is floating inverted, I still want SAR to find ME, not the upturned chopper.
Now with any luck I will be with everyone else that was on the chopper, and SAR get the choice of a multitude of signals to home onto, but I might be on my lonesome floating around in my blobby suit, and if so I still want to be found pdq!!
There is currently a debate in GA circles about the mandatory carriage of ELT/PLB 's and which is best and which is legal. To me its a no brainer, its the person that needs to be rescued, not the machine - regardless of legalities
Regards, SD..
Nice thinking SkyDriller, but I'm afraid the reality just isn't that clear cut.
I'm afraid wrist-worn PLB's that are provided by most oil companies now, have been viewed by aircrew and particularly SAR crews, as a complete waste of time. Their range is barely a mile or so, hence there effectiveness is questionable.
From a pilots point of view, they keep going off accidentally in the cabin, forcing us to return to base and get the erroneous transmission switched off. In the aircraft, both pilots are wearing a high powered 'ELT' transmitter fitted in their life jackets, and the aircraft has a beacon as well, automatically deployed and able to be picked up by satellite. This is so far and above anything that the wrist watch PLB's can do.
Now we find that the PLB's are not simply a pain and a bit of a waste of time - They are actually counter productive to safety. Their signals are blocking out the main transmitter and forcing it to switch off - Hence when the RAF arrived to trace the downed Etap aircraft, they couldn't pick up any signals at all.
Trust me - As a pilot who cares about all his passengers, those bloody wrist watches are worse than useless and will endanger lives rather than save them. Wrist watches are available but I've never seen a pilot wearing one !! That must say something, and personally I'm glad that at last someone has found good reason to get rid of those things.
I'm afraid wrist-worn PLB's that are provided by most oil companies now, have been viewed by aircrew and particularly SAR crews, as a complete waste of time. Their range is barely a mile or so, hence there effectiveness is questionable.
From a pilots point of view, they keep going off accidentally in the cabin, forcing us to return to base and get the erroneous transmission switched off. In the aircraft, both pilots are wearing a high powered 'ELT' transmitter fitted in their life jackets, and the aircraft has a beacon as well, automatically deployed and able to be picked up by satellite. This is so far and above anything that the wrist watch PLB's can do.
Now we find that the PLB's are not simply a pain and a bit of a waste of time - They are actually counter productive to safety. Their signals are blocking out the main transmitter and forcing it to switch off - Hence when the RAF arrived to trace the downed Etap aircraft, they couldn't pick up any signals at all.
Trust me - As a pilot who cares about all his passengers, those bloody wrist watches are worse than useless and will endanger lives rather than save them. Wrist watches are available but I've never seen a pilot wearing one !! That must say something, and personally I'm glad that at last someone has found good reason to get rid of those things.
Thank goodness the wristwatch PLB are BANNED!
Ever since introduction, the wristwatch PLB have been a scourge on the North Sea. False activations are an almost daily occurance, I am sure that when the SAR authorities pick up a signal from a satellite with a position fix in the N Sea, they just have another cup of tea certain in the knowlege its another false alarm.
skydriller, I can understand why you feel the way you do, but if you understood the issues you would feel differently.
The wristwatch beacons are, not surprisingly, fairly weak in their output, whilst the "proper" beacons carried on the aircraft are much bigger and more powerful.
On a typical N Sea aircraft there is an ADELT that automatically deploys on impact or water landing, floats around transmitting on 3 frequencies, the civil search frequency (that helicopters/ships would typically use to locate) the military search frequency (ditto for military helicopters/ships) and the satellite based SARSAT system that will give a near-instant worldwide alert that the aircraft has gone down (it includes a code indicating which aircraft has gone down)
Then there are the crew beacons - each pilot has a beacon in his lifejacket - in BHL these work on the civil and military homing frequencies. Then there are the liferaft beacons (2 liferafts so 2 beacons). Some aircraft have another automatically activated beacon built in to the aircraft. So altogether 5 or 6 "proper" beacons, 3 or 4 of which transmit on the satellite frequency.
Being proper beacons, they know that the satellite system can't cope with too many different transmissions from the same location. Its a bit like everyone transmitting on their walky-talkies at the same time - all you can hear is screeching. So they are clever - if they "hear" another beacon in the vicinity, they shut up.
Unfortunately the wristwatch beacons are not clever - they just scream out all the time. So even though the wristwatch beacons have pretty low output when the "proper" beacons are close by, they get a strong signal from the nearby wristwatches and "shut up".
The consequence is that the wristwatches supress the output from the proper beacons, whilst actually being very weak. So those nice people in the SAR helicopters and ships might get a very rough position (within a few miles) from the satellite system, but are unable to pick up the local signal, so unable to home in. A few miles is an awful lot of sea to look for a tiny dinghy, or an even more tiny head bobbing about in the water at night.
As far as I am aware, this was a significant factor in the long rescue time for REDU passengers, hence the banning.
The only shame is that it took an accident for the profile to be raised - the helicopter operators had wanted to ban them for a long time, but the oil companies, who pay our wages, refused. At least no one died making the point.
So skydriller, now that you know that your wristwatch will prevent you being rescued, do you still want to wear it in the chopper?
HC
ps took so long to draft that lot that Special beat me to it!
skydriller, I can understand why you feel the way you do, but if you understood the issues you would feel differently.
The wristwatch beacons are, not surprisingly, fairly weak in their output, whilst the "proper" beacons carried on the aircraft are much bigger and more powerful.
On a typical N Sea aircraft there is an ADELT that automatically deploys on impact or water landing, floats around transmitting on 3 frequencies, the civil search frequency (that helicopters/ships would typically use to locate) the military search frequency (ditto for military helicopters/ships) and the satellite based SARSAT system that will give a near-instant worldwide alert that the aircraft has gone down (it includes a code indicating which aircraft has gone down)
Then there are the crew beacons - each pilot has a beacon in his lifejacket - in BHL these work on the civil and military homing frequencies. Then there are the liferaft beacons (2 liferafts so 2 beacons). Some aircraft have another automatically activated beacon built in to the aircraft. So altogether 5 or 6 "proper" beacons, 3 or 4 of which transmit on the satellite frequency.
Being proper beacons, they know that the satellite system can't cope with too many different transmissions from the same location. Its a bit like everyone transmitting on their walky-talkies at the same time - all you can hear is screeching. So they are clever - if they "hear" another beacon in the vicinity, they shut up.
Unfortunately the wristwatch beacons are not clever - they just scream out all the time. So even though the wristwatch beacons have pretty low output when the "proper" beacons are close by, they get a strong signal from the nearby wristwatches and "shut up".
The consequence is that the wristwatches supress the output from the proper beacons, whilst actually being very weak. So those nice people in the SAR helicopters and ships might get a very rough position (within a few miles) from the satellite system, but are unable to pick up the local signal, so unable to home in. A few miles is an awful lot of sea to look for a tiny dinghy, or an even more tiny head bobbing about in the water at night.
As far as I am aware, this was a significant factor in the long rescue time for REDU passengers, hence the banning.
The only shame is that it took an accident for the profile to be raised - the helicopter operators had wanted to ban them for a long time, but the oil companies, who pay our wages, refused. At least no one died making the point.
So skydriller, now that you know that your wristwatch will prevent you being rescued, do you still want to wear it in the chopper?
HC
ps took so long to draft that lot that Special beat me to it!
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The problems were described to the oil industry over 18 months before the accident:
PLB False Alarms/Update
Derek Whatling (Bristow)
Derek Whatling (Bristow)
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I knew nothing about the problems!!!
Im truly Amazed !!!..... If you all know this, why dont I (the guy told to wear it, check it, treat it carefully as it could save my life etc.) know about this?The Oil industry supposedly prides itself on effective safety proceedures & equipment.
What is the answer? A "clever" PLB by the sounds of it, just as you guys wear up front....
BTW, the PLB I regularly use going offshore isnt worn on the wrist (though I have seen this type), its on a harness or its an integral part of the lifejacket. Its about 3"x4" with a simple arm/disarm switch and activation button. Is this in effect identical to the "wristwatch PLB" you are talking about?
Also, at a tangent but related : I fly a light aircraft with an inbuilt fixed ELT, but as you can tell, I subscribe to the theory that I personally want to be saved should I have to ditch it, and so also carry a Mcmurdo PLB on me too. Will these two interfere also, or are the GA PLBs "clever"? As I alluded to in my first post, there is a GA debate over certain countries mandating 406 frequency fixed installed ELTs as opposed to GPS/406 PLBs. I dont think the fixed ELT will help me if the aeroplane sinks to the bottom of the sea....
Regards, SD..
What is the answer? A "clever" PLB by the sounds of it, just as you guys wear up front....
BTW, the PLB I regularly use going offshore isnt worn on the wrist (though I have seen this type), its on a harness or its an integral part of the lifejacket. Its about 3"x4" with a simple arm/disarm switch and activation button. Is this in effect identical to the "wristwatch PLB" you are talking about?
Also, at a tangent but related : I fly a light aircraft with an inbuilt fixed ELT, but as you can tell, I subscribe to the theory that I personally want to be saved should I have to ditch it, and so also carry a Mcmurdo PLB on me too. Will these two interfere also, or are the GA PLBs "clever"? As I alluded to in my first post, there is a GA debate over certain countries mandating 406 frequency fixed installed ELTs as opposed to GPS/406 PLBs. I dont think the fixed ELT will help me if the aeroplane sinks to the bottom of the sea....
Regards, SD..
I think it is safe to say the use of 121.5 and 243.0 for homing purposes by the USCG is a thing of the past now and they are going to SAT Epirb kit only.
As there is a lot of military flying in the part of the Oggin I sail on....I retain a dual freq Sarbe in my vest along with a GPS equipped DSC capable portable Marine VHF. That gives me all three methods of hollering for help should I go bobbing about.
As there is a lot of military flying in the part of the Oggin I sail on....I retain a dual freq Sarbe in my vest along with a GPS equipped DSC capable portable Marine VHF. That gives me all three methods of hollering for help should I go bobbing about.
skydriller - now you know! The oil industry certainly knew about the false alarm issue, not quite so sure they knew about the mutual interference issue. But don't forget, those in the oil industry making such decision often have no understanding of aviation, and the lobbying power of you guys is perhaps higher than you think.
As you say, the answer is a cleverer device - one that does not suffer false activations nor interfere with the "proper" beacons. Until that device exists, lets keep them off the aircraft!
There are (were) at least 3 different designs of PLB in use offshore, I use the term "wristwatch" generically.
Can't say if GA PLB cater for this issue or not, it would probably depend on the model. Fixed ELTs have the advantage that they are normally activated by a g-switch - ie automatically in the event of a crash whilst you are unconscious. Portable ones will work after the aircraft has sunk, provided you keep the aerial out of the water and are in a position to turn it on. So I suppose it depends on where you intend crashing!
Perhaps the opitimum is a fixed elt with a crash switch, that can be unclipped from the airframe and carried off by you.
HC
As you say, the answer is a cleverer device - one that does not suffer false activations nor interfere with the "proper" beacons. Until that device exists, lets keep them off the aircraft!
There are (were) at least 3 different designs of PLB in use offshore, I use the term "wristwatch" generically.
Can't say if GA PLB cater for this issue or not, it would probably depend on the model. Fixed ELTs have the advantage that they are normally activated by a g-switch - ie automatically in the event of a crash whilst you are unconscious. Portable ones will work after the aircraft has sunk, provided you keep the aerial out of the water and are in a position to turn it on. So I suppose it depends on where you intend crashing!
Perhaps the opitimum is a fixed elt with a crash switch, that can be unclipped from the airframe and carried off by you.
HC
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Sassy……Am I behind the times or is the final homing phase by a Flying Machine actually conducted on 121.5 / 243…..not 406.?
Hence those old frequencies maybe around for many many years…..just not monitored by the Satellites’!!!!
Do you actually venture out of the Lakes.....a true Blue Water Matlow?
Oh no......
Hence those old frequencies maybe around for many many years…..just not monitored by the Satellites’!!!!
Do you actually venture out of the Lakes.....a true Blue Water Matlow?
Oh no......
Chief Bottle Washer
Red Wine/SASless,
My understanding is that the current generation of ELB's use 406 + 121.5: 406 will get the Sat positioning (enhanced if GPS is input'd to the ELB), and 121.5 is transmitted for homer ops. None of the units that I operate with have 243.0 any more, but all have 406/121.5, and all are current (2008/2009) models.
My understanding is that the current generation of ELB's use 406 + 121.5: 406 will get the Sat positioning (enhanced if GPS is input'd to the ELB), and 121.5 is transmitted for homer ops. None of the units that I operate with have 243.0 any more, but all have 406/121.5, and all are current (2008/2009) models.
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Perhaps the opitimum is a fixed elt with a crash switch, that can be unclipped from the airframe and carried off by you.
None of the units that I operate with have 243.0 any more, but all have 406/121.5,
It is very interesting that the wristwatch beacons 'interfere' with the aircraft ones, this doesn't happen with the military beacons we wear so maybe the problem is not the wristwatches but the choice of crew and aircraft beacons.
Just to clear a couple of things up, 121.5 and 243 are not monitored by the COSPAS/SARSAT satellites any more so therefore there is no satellite alerting worldwide for these frequencies. However, all SAR aircraft can home to 121.5 beacons and this is the reason that the newer 406 beacons also transmit on 121.5. The new beacons transmit the identity of the beacon and can have a GPS position added to the message if there is a GPS receiver also built into the beacon.
Therefore a SAR asset would proceed to the lat and long of the beacon as transmitted to the satellite (and then downloaded to earth station and processed by the MCC) and then, if required, fine tune the homing using 121.5.
Personally, I like the idea of individual beacons since, in the confusion of a multi casualty situation, a single survivor who has drifted outside the immediate rescue area is less likely to be overlooked.
Just to clear a couple of things up, 121.5 and 243 are not monitored by the COSPAS/SARSAT satellites any more so therefore there is no satellite alerting worldwide for these frequencies. However, all SAR aircraft can home to 121.5 beacons and this is the reason that the newer 406 beacons also transmit on 121.5. The new beacons transmit the identity of the beacon and can have a GPS position added to the message if there is a GPS receiver also built into the beacon.
Therefore a SAR asset would proceed to the lat and long of the beacon as transmitted to the satellite (and then downloaded to earth station and processed by the MCC) and then, if required, fine tune the homing using 121.5.
Personally, I like the idea of individual beacons since, in the confusion of a multi casualty situation, a single survivor who has drifted outside the immediate rescue area is less likely to be overlooked.
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Personally, I like the idea of individual beacons
And with PLB's available at about $500, economics is much less of a factor than previously. (Some PLBs, however, are considerably more expensive.)UPDATE: McMurdo has recently announced a new PLB at under $300 list price. See: New McMurdo Fast Find PLBs - Smaller, Lighter & Cheaper | Doug Ritter’s Equipped.org Blog
Also much practical info re PLBs, EPIRBs, etc at:
The Ultimate Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) FAQ - EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm)
A link to the USCG site discussing Epirbs, and SAR monitoring.
Emergency Position Indicating Radiobeacon (EPIRB) - USCG Navigation Center
Emergency Position Indicating Radiobeacon (EPIRB) - USCG Navigation Center
Maybe another solution would be a version of this MOB Guardian as approved by the RNLI for fishing vessels.
MOB Guardian more details
MOB Guardian more details
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The offshore operators on the UKCS have to set performance standards for recovering people to a place of safety.
Using a Jigsaw type concept 'creates' something of an issue in that it means that the rescue facility (be it aircraft or vessel) is likely to arrive some time after the incident (indeed quite some time and I'd be interested in just how long it took the ARRC to arrive).
If the rescue resource arrives some time after the incident then there si much less time to recover the people before the magic 2 hour period has elapsed. If they are int he sea they will have drifted apart and they were rumours that the initial Jigsaw trials required quite an effort to reach the point where 21 people could be winch recovered.
Hence the provision of the wrist PLB to allow the aircrafft or vessel to track people.
So if the wrist PLB has 'issues' how does the industry prove it can recover people within 2 hours if they are dispersed in the water - proper PLBs?
Using a Jigsaw type concept 'creates' something of an issue in that it means that the rescue facility (be it aircraft or vessel) is likely to arrive some time after the incident (indeed quite some time and I'd be interested in just how long it took the ARRC to arrive).
If the rescue resource arrives some time after the incident then there si much less time to recover the people before the magic 2 hour period has elapsed. If they are int he sea they will have drifted apart and they were rumours that the initial Jigsaw trials required quite an effort to reach the point where 21 people could be winch recovered.
Hence the provision of the wrist PLB to allow the aircrafft or vessel to track people.
So if the wrist PLB has 'issues' how does the industry prove it can recover people within 2 hours if they are dispersed in the water - proper PLBs?
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Day & Night Flying Rules Offshore
I have spent the last 30 years flying to and from many platforms in the North Sea both in the UK and Norway. And I have not come across any information from any of the helicopter operators outlining what the rules for flying are in daylight or at night. I think it might be prudent for the likes of Bristows, Bond and CHC to issue these rules to each platform/rig they fly too.
Also over this period of work in the oil industry I think it is about time that the "Mark One" eyeball method of calculating cloud height and horizontal visibility should be done away and be replaced with tried and tested instrumentation for cloud height and visibilty. As I have access to UKWebmet and very few platforms have this type of instrumentation etc for flying operations it should become mandatory throughtout the oil industry in the North Sea as we would get less ambigious weather reports from offshore.
J
Also over this period of work in the oil industry I think it is about time that the "Mark One" eyeball method of calculating cloud height and horizontal visibility should be done away and be replaced with tried and tested instrumentation for cloud height and visibilty. As I have access to UKWebmet and very few platforms have this type of instrumentation etc for flying operations it should become mandatory throughtout the oil industry in the North Sea as we would get less ambigious weather reports from offshore.
J
gasax - the RAF Sea King crew watched in frustration as the Jigsaw aircraft deployed the winchman and started to recover 2 survivors as a double lift with the winchman remaining in the dinghy. They got to the door and were not winched in, allegedly because the aircraft doesn't have a facility for the pilot to operate the winch - this is required because it is nigh on impossible for the winch op to operate the winch and drag the survivors inside. The 2 were winched back to the water and then subsequently rescued by boat.
The Jigsaw concept might be a good one but when the crews haven't actually trained to winch people from dinghies (only the water), try to do so from 40' and blow the dinghy alles uber der platz and don't have the facility to do a double survivor cabin entry - it does beg the question of how well this system is a. set up and b. policed. I gather the survivors were in their dinghies for well over an hour before the helo turned up - just as well it was a nice night and not sea state 6 in a gale!!
The Jigsaw concept might be a good one but when the crews haven't actually trained to winch people from dinghies (only the water), try to do so from 40' and blow the dinghy alles uber der platz and don't have the facility to do a double survivor cabin entry - it does beg the question of how well this system is a. set up and b. policed. I gather the survivors were in their dinghies for well over an hour before the helo turned up - just as well it was a nice night and not sea state 6 in a gale!!
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IIRC the Jigsaw trials hoist installation was far more sophisticated and provided fixed speed control from the pilot's collective for just such an eventuality. For the trials the aircraft (JSAR) carried the Eurocopter mechanical installation and a Bristow developed control system based on the S61N installation used successfully on the MCA contract. Not sure why this was not specified by BP as a requirement for the full contract, probably ECF did not want to pay Bristow?
crab:
I have no first hand information on the rescue so cannot comment on what happened but I can set your mind at rest and confirm that the Jigsaw aircraft can perform a double strop rescue with the pilot non flying operating the winch whilst the winch operator pulls in the two survivors. However don't let the truth get in the way of having another jab at civie SAR ...
In any case it would have been rather odd for them to perform a double strop rescue in the full knowledge that the survivors cannot be recover into the aircraft???
Woolf
I have no first hand information on the rescue so cannot comment on what happened but I can set your mind at rest and confirm that the Jigsaw aircraft can perform a double strop rescue with the pilot non flying operating the winch whilst the winch operator pulls in the two survivors. However don't let the truth get in the way of having another jab at civie SAR ...
In any case it would have been rather odd for them to perform a double strop rescue in the full knowledge that the survivors cannot be recover into the aircraft???
Woolf
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The Jigsaw concept might be a good one but when the crews haven't actually trained to winch people from dinghies (only the water), try to do so from 40' and blow the dinghy alles uber der platz
just as well it was a nice night and not sea state 6 in a gale!!
If it had been blowing a gale then I am pretty sure the downwash would not have been an issue.
just as well it was a nice night and not sea state 6 in a gale!!
If it had been blowing a gale then I am pretty sure the downwash would not have been an issue.