AIRPROX Birmingham, Police v UFO
Avoid imitations
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Nige321,
I'm keeping an open mind. Despite it seeming very difficult to fly a R/C aircraft in such a way at night, the best evidence is the word of the crew.
I certainly think it's the most likely scenario, because of the reported size of the other aircraft. I don't think for one moment that there are little green men chasing police helicopters over the UK skies.
The only other possibility I can imagine is that it was a group of helium filled party foil balloons reflecting lights in the darkness. I have seen this myself a few times. They appear to be moving faster than the windspeed blowing them along and even appear to manoeuvre as the aircraft flies past them. I'm not in a position to say if this could have been the case here.
I'm keeping an open mind. Despite it seeming very difficult to fly a R/C aircraft in such a way at night, the best evidence is the word of the crew.
I certainly think it's the most likely scenario, because of the reported size of the other aircraft. I don't think for one moment that there are little green men chasing police helicopters over the UK skies.
The only other possibility I can imagine is that it was a group of helium filled party foil balloons reflecting lights in the darkness. I have seen this myself a few times. They appear to be moving faster than the windspeed blowing them along and even appear to manoeuvre as the aircraft flies past them. I'm not in a position to say if this could have been the case here.
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Whilst it must be difficult for a R/C enthusiast to try to match the height of another aircraft at altitude, especially at night, this is not unprecedented. I am sure there will be some on this forum who remember attempts to use R/C aircraft as a weapon against helicopters in NI a decade or two ago.
Avoid imitations
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Correct! 
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Elementary, my dear Sid. I think we can call that another mystery wrapped up. At this stage someone in a gorilla suit ought to say " If it wasnt for you meddling kids.....!"
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Well, it's obvious what was going on here, the lights were stationary and the helicopter was inadvertently doing one of those manoeuvres where the nose describes a circle and the tail describes a bigger circle (my instructor demonstrated it to me a secret training place nr Wellesbourne and I concluded with my massive 60hrs that it was impossible for a normal mortal), now this helicopter had probably just passed low over Mar Pardoe's brewery in Quarry Bonk (Quarry Bank, Bonk is Black Country for Bank) and the fumes from the brewing vessels had entered the machine (through faulty ventilation ports) temporarily affecting the pilot. Whilst not suggesting alcohol played any part in this whatsoever I had a similar experince riding my push bike back from Mar Pardoe's last year when a lampost suddenly started swinging round in circles ..
Silsoe
It only weighs 0.5Kg - It'd take a week to get to 90' never mind 900
and
Only works in sunlight I'm afraid...
Back to the drawing board...
N
Firebird Commander 2 Electric RTF [HBZ2600] - Mikes Models
and
++Anti-Crash Technology (ACT)++
(Two sensors on the fuselage, one on the top and one on the bottom, monitor the position of the plane in relation to the ground.)
(Two sensors on the fuselage, one on the top and one on the bottom, monitor the position of the plane in relation to the ground.)
Back to the drawing board...
N
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900' isn't that far really - 300 Yards, or to put in perspective - It's the distance from the first countdown marker board on a motorway to the start of the exit slip road ...
... Night flying of remote controlled aircraft at night ?
YouTube - RC Night Flying at Point Fermin
... Night flying of remote controlled aircraft at night ?
YouTube - RC Night Flying at Point Fermin
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A model transmitter has "line of sight" range. The limiting factor is what the pilot can see. So after a few hundred yards it becomes v difficult. early drone systems used binoculars on stands so that the pilot controlled them whilst viewing through the binos. Now we have "first person view" systems where there is a small camera mounted on the model sending a video pic back to the pilot who wears a set of VR goggles: he sees what we see and flies accordingly.
Those Anti crash systems work poorly at best, at night I doubt they'd do anything: but it matters not, a good RC pilot wouldnt need the system even at night.
A model would easily chase a helo, but probably more by accident than design.
I suspect that the police chopper would outrun the model in seconds - it would be pretty hard for a model pilot to circle it and keep up, especially at night. The helo wake would seriously affect the model IMHO. Big bals models fl;y quickly but those lightweight foamies, whilst they have very high power:weight ratios, fly slowly.
David
BMFA Instructor
Those Anti crash systems work poorly at best, at night I doubt they'd do anything: but it matters not, a good RC pilot wouldnt need the system even at night.
A model would easily chase a helo, but probably more by accident than design.
I suspect that the police chopper would outrun the model in seconds - it would be pretty hard for a model pilot to circle it and keep up, especially at night. The helo wake would seriously affect the model IMHO. Big bals models fl;y quickly but those lightweight foamies, whilst they have very high power:weight ratios, fly slowly.
David
BMFA Instructor
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whyisitsohard Quote:
A model transmitter has "line of sight" range.
Thanks whyisitsohard, so the 'advice' to the Airprox board from the MFA, " saying the mystery object was flying too high to be a miniature craft," isn't correct then
Nope. The ONLY limit on vertical flight is what the pilot can see. I've had model gliders well up beyond a thousand feet. I mean WELL up beyond. Allegedly, m'lud.
Everynow and then the magazines run articles on how to calculate height using the apparent wingspan. But nowadays you go and spend 200 quid for a telemetry box and it sends all sorts of stuff down to you. With FPV flight and telemetry there is no limit, viz the UAVs being flown from the US in Afghanistan.
Last summer I shared a thermal with a fullsize glider for a while before I bottled out and left him to it - whether he saw me I shall never know. Whenever I see model planes flying I always keep a good lookout as the model pilot simply cant judge that third dimension and a face full of fourstroke engine would spoil my paintwork.
Have a look here if you want to see high flight! YouTube - Flying Model RC Aircraft Very High Into Clouds This is the US, but only because it's the first one I found.
This is FPV FirstPersonView.co.uk, Radio Control First Person View (RC FPV) equipment for Video Piloting
Night flying is a big area of the hobby, though moreso overseas where it'sm actually warm! The heli boys do it a lot over here though by putting coloured LED ropes on the models...
Cleveland Model Helicopter Club Night Flying
David
A model transmitter has "line of sight" range.
Thanks whyisitsohard, so the 'advice' to the Airprox board from the MFA, " saying the mystery object was flying too high to be a miniature craft," isn't correct then
Nope. The ONLY limit on vertical flight is what the pilot can see. I've had model gliders well up beyond a thousand feet. I mean WELL up beyond. Allegedly, m'lud.
Everynow and then the magazines run articles on how to calculate height using the apparent wingspan. But nowadays you go and spend 200 quid for a telemetry box and it sends all sorts of stuff down to you. With FPV flight and telemetry there is no limit, viz the UAVs being flown from the US in Afghanistan.
Last summer I shared a thermal with a fullsize glider for a while before I bottled out and left him to it - whether he saw me I shall never know. Whenever I see model planes flying I always keep a good lookout as the model pilot simply cant judge that third dimension and a face full of fourstroke engine would spoil my paintwork.
Have a look here if you want to see high flight! YouTube - Flying Model RC Aircraft Very High Into Clouds This is the US, but only because it's the first one I found.
This is FPV FirstPersonView.co.uk, Radio Control First Person View (RC FPV) equipment for Video Piloting
Night flying is a big area of the hobby, though moreso overseas where it'sm actually warm! The heli boys do it a lot over here though by putting coloured LED ropes on the models...
Cleveland Model Helicopter Club Night Flying
David
Sid
Close but no cigar...
I certainly don't believe it was little green men, nor do I believe for a minute it was a model - the performance required of the model and it's pilot simply don't make any sense.
Was there any FLIR footage recorded??
N
Close but no cigar...
I certainly don't believe it was little green men, nor do I believe for a minute it was a model - the performance required of the model and it's pilot simply don't make any sense.
Was there any FLIR footage recorded??
N
Sid
I'm plumping for plasma balls...
Especially talking ones...
'Thems clever them Black Coontry types'...
N
I'm plumping for plasma balls...
Especially talking ones...
'Thems clever them Black Coontry types'...
N
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The only other possibility I can imagine is that it was a group of helium filled party foil balloons reflecting lights in the darkness. I have seen this myself a few times. They appear to be moving faster than the windspeed blowing them along and even appear to manoeuvre as the aircraft flies past them.
Sid nice picture of remote plane, however it has different coloured lights..which you would need at night to work out the direction of travel at night... I am led to believe the "UFO" had the same coloured lights?? UAV's yes flown from the ground with a camera linked to a monitor so you can see where they are going etc, somehow such a plane in Sandwell Valley a short range from Handsworth does not seem the ideal location for such an expensive and complex "toy"
I guess we should check the crews watches for the lost 9 minutes and a medical exam for any anal probing is required...time for Scully to intervene I think
Avoid imitations
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Would they be able to circle the aircraft?? would they not get blown away in the rotor wash??
The pilot's actual report wasn't included in the Airprox document; sometimes we need to read between the lines or at least read in a broad sense. I'm only using personal experience to try to understand this incident. I have seen balloons myself in similar circumstances and they looked quite weird until I realised what was there.
Was the object close enough to be affected by the downwash? Difficult to say, because the reporter didn't seem to know. If it was, as I tried to make clear in a previous reply - it would NOT have caused the object to circle the aircraft.
Some people need to quantify everything in finite, concrete terms that we understand. We think we know everything there is to know about our universe - that it's all been satisfactorily explained by science and Scientists. Thus, it *had* to be an RC model or some such. Anything else is just too incredible to comprehend. It is dismissed out of hand without further consideration. Can't be!
We humans believe in three dimensions: height; length; and width. The speed of light is absolute. Concrete. Measurable. Finite. And here on earth, those things apply (well, at least until you get down to the sub-atomic level, then all bets are off).
We know that inter-galactic space travel...at least with the means of propulsion currently at our disposal...is impossible. We can't even escape our own solar system at this point.
But what if there are dimensions of which we're not yet aware - dimensions that we cannot even imagine? (Like, how a dog has the ability to sense things that we cannot.) What if there are methods of propulsion and travel that we have not discovered?
Me, I don't rule anything out. *Must* the explanation of what the police pilots saw be of earthly origin? Certainly not! Could it have been..."something"...of which we have no knowlege, do not understand and cannot explain? Of course.
Does this bother me? Will I go out of my way to "conclude" that it must have been party balloons or RC models or just some sort of mistake on the part of the crew just so my brain won't short-circuit? Nope. Some things in life just have no explanation. Yet. In the meantime, I won't ridicule or deride any theory.
We humans believe in three dimensions: height; length; and width. The speed of light is absolute. Concrete. Measurable. Finite. And here on earth, those things apply (well, at least until you get down to the sub-atomic level, then all bets are off).
We know that inter-galactic space travel...at least with the means of propulsion currently at our disposal...is impossible. We can't even escape our own solar system at this point.
But what if there are dimensions of which we're not yet aware - dimensions that we cannot even imagine? (Like, how a dog has the ability to sense things that we cannot.) What if there are methods of propulsion and travel that we have not discovered?
Me, I don't rule anything out. *Must* the explanation of what the police pilots saw be of earthly origin? Certainly not! Could it have been..."something"...of which we have no knowlege, do not understand and cannot explain? Of course.
Does this bother me? Will I go out of my way to "conclude" that it must have been party balloons or RC models or just some sort of mistake on the part of the crew just so my brain won't short-circuit? Nope. Some things in life just have no explanation. Yet. In the meantime, I won't ridicule or deride any theory.
Avoid imitations
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I agree but as professional fliers we really ought to try to rule out earthly explanations first!
My point is that we have a report based on another report, sometimes it pays to think laterally or not take it as verbatim or the gospel.
Who is in the Airprox board? Folks just like us.
My point is that we have a report based on another report, sometimes it pays to think laterally or not take it as verbatim or the gospel.
Who is in the Airprox board? Folks just like us.
If a pilot told me something with respect to aviation that happened to him in flight, I would first be inclined to believe him rather than assuming that he must have been mistaken.
Avoid imitations
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If a pilot told me something with respect to aviation that happened to him in flight, I would first be inclined to believe him rather than assuming that he must have been mistaken.
I've had a similar occurrence doing the same job, at night, at a neighbouring police unit. I'm merely offering my own experience of seeing metallised plastic foil balloons at night as one possible explanation. They reflect ground lights and look very unusual.
I would rather explain it than let it cause further concern as it's a flight safety issue. If it doesn't fit his experience on the night, so be it. He hasn't rejected the theory as yet.