So what was your first ever IMC solo trip like??
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,578
Received 435 Likes
on
229 Posts
BJC, apart from that, did you enjoy the flight? 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BJC, apart from that, did you enjoy the flight?
I enjoyed the landing...
I forgot to mention what happens to your SA when on departure you are told to "call established on the airway" and when you do the terminal control responds with "no you're not"
First time hard IMC in a helo and I am lost before leveling off. That left a good taste in my mouth. That guy had us pegged right from the start of the trip and I'm sure his opinion only got better as the trip progressed.
I enjoyed the landing...
I forgot to mention what happens to your SA when on departure you are told to "call established on the airway" and when you do the terminal control responds with "no you're not"
First time hard IMC in a helo and I am lost before leveling off. That left a good taste in my mouth. That guy had us pegged right from the start of the trip and I'm sure his opinion only got better as the trip progressed.
eurocopterbeans,
Read the thread - what was the big deal about going solo IMC? Lack of confidence?
The other comments about "adequately equipped" aircraft. That probably infers that the aircraft is doing most of it on it's own with someone watching. What happens when the aircraft "fails", which is more often than gets admitted, then the watcher has to do it, who actually hasn't done it in a while.
SPIFR in helicopters - it has knobs on it.
Read the thread - what was the big deal about going solo IMC? Lack of confidence?
The other comments about "adequately equipped" aircraft. That probably infers that the aircraft is doing most of it on it's own with someone watching. What happens when the aircraft "fails", which is more often than gets admitted, then the watcher has to do it, who actually hasn't done it in a while.
SPIFR in helicopters - it has knobs on it.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: europe
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry, to clarify, we are talking about your first solo IMC flight and not inadvertant IMC entry? If you are embarking on your first, planned IMC solo flight you should have
1. The required IF rating on type.
2. An aircraft certified to operate SPIFR.
3. The requisite currency required to maintain your SPIFR rating.
4. The required confidence in your own IF experience to embark on a solo IMC Flight.
If we are talking about inadvertant IMC entry in a machine or in WAT conditions unsuitable to IF flight, well that is a different kettle of monkeys.
1. The required IF rating on type.
2. An aircraft certified to operate SPIFR.
3. The requisite currency required to maintain your SPIFR rating.
4. The required confidence in your own IF experience to embark on a solo IMC Flight.
If we are talking about inadvertant IMC entry in a machine or in WAT conditions unsuitable to IF flight, well that is a different kettle of monkeys.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near the Mountains
Age: 67
Posts: 345
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh, for heaven's sake RVDT, what are you on about? Do you want your coffee poured for you as well? Maybe you should try bizjets or some such where the trolley dolly can serve you breakfast? And don't forget, your coffee should be served by reaching it behind your back and across your left shoulder (assuming you're the CAPTAIN in the left seat) in case, God forbid, it might spill on the centre console - or your pants!!
At the end of the day, formal IFR ops require require two pilots, no matter what the circumstances - in some cases, it's two people, on others it's one person and a computer.
If, in a two-crew cockpit, one is incapacitated, there's only one left to do it all - that's an emergency and will be declared as such. Moreover, if the aircraft is required to be operated two crew, one pilot flying is illegal - unless it's it's a declared emergency. And if, as is often the case, the junior co-jo is the one left holding the controls, he or she may not have even taxied the aircraft recently..........
If, in a SPIFR cockpit, the autopilot/FD fails, that's an emergency and foolish the pilot who doesn't, at the very least, alert ATC and request minimum manoeuvring and straight in to whatever is available. Even more foolish is the pilot who doesn't keep him or herself in current practice for flight under the IFRs.
If you don't want to share your cockpit with an autopilot or a Flight Director, that'a a matter for yourself but I'm not buying the idea.
And if you want two crew AND the FD, I'm not sure what the two of you are going to be doing? Both of you watching it in case it quits.......?
Or do you need all that time and spare capacity to make sure it finds its own way from waypoint to waypoint, eh? After all, you're the one putting in those waypoints and YOU couldn't be wrong, could you?
SPIFR is part of the job from time to time. A bit like powerline patrols or flying cameras - if you don't like it, don't bloody do it!!
At the end of the day, formal IFR ops require require two pilots, no matter what the circumstances - in some cases, it's two people, on others it's one person and a computer.
If, in a two-crew cockpit, one is incapacitated, there's only one left to do it all - that's an emergency and will be declared as such. Moreover, if the aircraft is required to be operated two crew, one pilot flying is illegal - unless it's it's a declared emergency. And if, as is often the case, the junior co-jo is the one left holding the controls, he or she may not have even taxied the aircraft recently..........
If, in a SPIFR cockpit, the autopilot/FD fails, that's an emergency and foolish the pilot who doesn't, at the very least, alert ATC and request minimum manoeuvring and straight in to whatever is available. Even more foolish is the pilot who doesn't keep him or herself in current practice for flight under the IFRs.
If you don't want to share your cockpit with an autopilot or a Flight Director, that'a a matter for yourself but I'm not buying the idea.
And if you want two crew AND the FD, I'm not sure what the two of you are going to be doing? Both of you watching it in case it quits.......?
Or do you need all that time and spare capacity to make sure it finds its own way from waypoint to waypoint, eh? After all, you're the one putting in those waypoints and YOU couldn't be wrong, could you?
SPIFR is part of the job from time to time. A bit like powerline patrols or flying cameras - if you don't like it, don't bloody do it!!
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In my house
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was lucky with mine. Having done similar trips many times before in both IMC and VMC 2 crew. Once I completed my Single Pilot Line Check and was cleared to line on the S76A (Hamilton Standard Phase II) IMC /SPIFR flights to rigs were quite routine.
I believe my first one was actually night IMC from North Denes to a diving support vessel in the Esmond field called the Bar Protector. I carried out what used to be called a rig radar NDB approach and found the vessel without too much difficulty. It was raining and windy.
The most difficult part was the cross cockpit landing on a moving deck in the dark. At least I had power in hand with the wind. I think that the 9 guys in the back were quite relieved to be on the ship! After that, it was off the Newcastle to drop the inbound pax then back to Denes.
We used to do night Amoco shuttles with a crewman almost daily in winter and it was not uncommon to plan IFR on those flights, especially after a few days of fog when the client wanted to get the trip done, even with a poor payload. Then there were the night Rowan Crew changes once a month.
While it was busy and one had to concentrate hard, the Bristow training in those days was excellent. We did so much night flying in both IMC and VMC that it was kind of routine. I think that there is a lot of value in training but also in being practiced at what you have to do.
Would I do it now?? No, probably not, too old and, quite properly, risk management would dictate otherwise nowadays.
I believe my first one was actually night IMC from North Denes to a diving support vessel in the Esmond field called the Bar Protector. I carried out what used to be called a rig radar NDB approach and found the vessel without too much difficulty. It was raining and windy.
The most difficult part was the cross cockpit landing on a moving deck in the dark. At least I had power in hand with the wind. I think that the 9 guys in the back were quite relieved to be on the ship! After that, it was off the Newcastle to drop the inbound pax then back to Denes.
We used to do night Amoco shuttles with a crewman almost daily in winter and it was not uncommon to plan IFR on those flights, especially after a few days of fog when the client wanted to get the trip done, even with a poor payload. Then there were the night Rowan Crew changes once a month.
While it was busy and one had to concentrate hard, the Bristow training in those days was excellent. We did so much night flying in both IMC and VMC that it was kind of routine. I think that there is a lot of value in training but also in being practiced at what you have to do.
Would I do it now?? No, probably not, too old and, quite properly, risk management would dictate otherwise nowadays.
heliski,
Touch a nerve did I?
Add up the people who DON'T/WON'T or NO LONGER do it.
Oil companies,
VIP,
Helicopter Airlines (granted there are few).
Touch a nerve did I?
Add up the people who DON'T/WON'T or NO LONGER do it.
Oil companies,
VIP,
Helicopter Airlines (granted there are few).
People, my intention, I started this thread for some light hearted replies. The reason being, recently, there seems to have been a whole load of IR training going on and a lot of low time people completing IR's. In the UK you can do minimum time in a twin eng IFR equipped a/c and do the IR course and suddenly, have 500hrsTT and a fresh IR. Ok, so not many people are going to let you launch with PAX with such low time, but all of the training undertaken to that point will have been dual or in a sim. Ok, so you can fly. Sure you're good enough to pass the IRT. The first time you go IMC SP then I imagine it does have some sort of mental effect. The tension/stress levels are bound to rise but again, proper training, maintaining a level head and using the FD/AP etc, should have the trip turn out great. Afterwards, I could imagine the euphoria from proving you can atually do it, must be quite a rush.
Personally, I can't get into IMC often enough because I love it, but i'm not likely to experience SPIFR for some time yet, if ever, but if I ever do in the future, i'm making the most of all of the experience I can get as a co-jo offshore.
Personally, I can't get into IMC often enough because I love it, but i'm not likely to experience SPIFR for some time yet, if ever, but if I ever do in the future, i'm making the most of all of the experience I can get as a co-jo offshore.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near the Mountains
Age: 67
Posts: 345
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, RVDT - I just like to throw a stone in the pond now and then.
Anybody can see the splash but I find it's much more interesting to watch where the ripples go.........
Anybody can see the splash but I find it's much more interesting to watch where the ripples go.........
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: europe
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
helimutt,
you seem to have a reasoned and fair concept of spifr. It is not easy and should never be approached flippantly, it is demanding and asks a lot of the pilot however neither it aint rocket science if all the boxes are ticked and the pilot is sufficiently trained and experienced. My first SPIFR flight was excellent in that it meant i had to be alert and active and when first entering cloud it meant remembering the basics. Other than that its down to system and time management. It always helps if your first flight are in benign conditions... weather not at minima at destination etc. I would much prefer to cruise back at 4000 and shoot an ILS than hedge hop in crappy wx at a couple of hunder feet!
you seem to have a reasoned and fair concept of spifr. It is not easy and should never be approached flippantly, it is demanding and asks a lot of the pilot however neither it aint rocket science if all the boxes are ticked and the pilot is sufficiently trained and experienced. My first SPIFR flight was excellent in that it meant i had to be alert and active and when first entering cloud it meant remembering the basics. Other than that its down to system and time management. It always helps if your first flight are in benign conditions... weather not at minima at destination etc. I would much prefer to cruise back at 4000 and shoot an ILS than hedge hop in crappy wx at a couple of hunder feet!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: within a range of RPG
Age: 49
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My first solo IMC was in my first solo cross country in helicopter (bell 206) visibility 0,5 NM, haze sunny day. 
My usual IMC is in Mi-8/17: one/two COM. 1 ADF and RMI + doppler navigation (if it works), clouds, 2000-4500m no oxygen, usually light to moderate icing
My usual IMC is in Mi-8/17: one/two COM. 1 ADF and RMI + doppler navigation (if it works), clouds, 2000-4500m no oxygen, usually light to moderate icing
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somerset
Age: 81
Posts: 635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Helimutt - great idea!
"People, my intention, I started this thread for some light hearted replies"
It was a long time ago, but some buttock clenching trips you never forget!
The aircraft, a Whirlwind 7, no stick trim, no throttle govenor, no stabalisation, a basic panel, an even more basic radio, no power and a critical dislike for anything less than 220 rrpm.
The weather, gales and low cloud.
The place Portland.
The mission to get back to Culdrose for the weekend!
I had just achieved the basic instrument rating but had never done it solo - I was that inexperienced. I took off and in the Jungly tradition intended to low level it along the coast. Unfortunately the Lyme Bay ranges were active so I had to go inland for the first bit. Approaching Hardys monument at about 100ft, WHAM into fog. Fog in front and fog behind. No option but to pull full power watch the revs and remember where the artificial horizon was.
I shall never forget the first 2000ft of that climb! Trying to get an instrument scan going, control the rpm, keep straightish and make a radio call asking for radar assistance and incidentally talking to my maintainer down below who was asking stupid questions. I think I got round to getting the ball in the middle about half way up!
Eventually I got it going in the right direction, passed out of radar cover and DR navigated down to where Culdrose approach could pick me up and bring me in for a GCA approach.
I felt quite proud of having achieved that flight but the consequences of not achieving it...........................
Did I learn anything from the trip? Yes - plan ahead if you are going into cloud, and secondly avoid it at all costs if you can. Frightening chickens is so much more fun.
PS what is SPIFR??
"People, my intention, I started this thread for some light hearted replies"
It was a long time ago, but some buttock clenching trips you never forget!
The aircraft, a Whirlwind 7, no stick trim, no throttle govenor, no stabalisation, a basic panel, an even more basic radio, no power and a critical dislike for anything less than 220 rrpm.
The weather, gales and low cloud.
The place Portland.
The mission to get back to Culdrose for the weekend!
I had just achieved the basic instrument rating but had never done it solo - I was that inexperienced. I took off and in the Jungly tradition intended to low level it along the coast. Unfortunately the Lyme Bay ranges were active so I had to go inland for the first bit. Approaching Hardys monument at about 100ft, WHAM into fog. Fog in front and fog behind. No option but to pull full power watch the revs and remember where the artificial horizon was.
I shall never forget the first 2000ft of that climb! Trying to get an instrument scan going, control the rpm, keep straightish and make a radio call asking for radar assistance and incidentally talking to my maintainer down below who was asking stupid questions. I think I got round to getting the ball in the middle about half way up!
Eventually I got it going in the right direction, passed out of radar cover and DR navigated down to where Culdrose approach could pick me up and bring me in for a GCA approach.
I felt quite proud of having achieved that flight but the consequences of not achieving it...........................
Did I learn anything from the trip? Yes - plan ahead if you are going into cloud, and secondly avoid it at all costs if you can. Frightening chickens is so much more fun.
PS what is SPIFR??
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 67
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would much prefer to cruise back at 4000 and shoot an ILS than hedge hop in crappy wx at a couple of hunder feet!
I was lucky in that I already had some IFR experience in airplanes before the first time I flew SPIFR in a helicopter, but there was still that moment just before I punched into the clouds where I thought "I can't believe I'm doing this!".
Too many years of flogging VFR R22s around where I've always figured IMC==death.
The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: From here the view is lovely
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RVDT;
I was offshore when the oil companies stopped SPIFR, but on corporate/VIP the choice lies with the customer. If its a particularly difficult job, or a very high profile customer we may ask to go two crew, but its up to the man who pays the bills.
All of our pilots are rated for SPIFR, sometimes when we are lucky they send two of us. Oddly I never feel the workload halves, It actually feels that it goes down by about two thirds.
On our renewals we are never told where we will be doing the approaches until the visual section is over. At that point the examiner says "Take me to ******** and fly the following approaches." He has everything booked with the airfield concerned we just have to get it right. It stops the complacency of knowing the plates off the top of your head if it is home base.
VH
I was offshore when the oil companies stopped SPIFR, but on corporate/VIP the choice lies with the customer. If its a particularly difficult job, or a very high profile customer we may ask to go two crew, but its up to the man who pays the bills.
All of our pilots are rated for SPIFR, sometimes when we are lucky they send two of us. Oddly I never feel the workload halves, It actually feels that it goes down by about two thirds.
On our renewals we are never told where we will be doing the approaches until the visual section is over. At that point the examiner says "Take me to ******** and fly the following approaches." He has everything booked with the airfield concerned we just have to get it right. It stops the complacency of knowing the plates off the top of your head if it is home base.
VH
