IMC in an R22 - anyone done this?
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Itarman,
Sadly it does
As a previous FI and now an IR holder there is a real difference between Sim IMC, knowing somebody else can see outside and actual IMC.
Examples:
Lowish hours ppl(h) holder and R44 owner - reguarly flies through and in cloud. Once saw him fly into a basically fog bound airfield. Explanation given was punched up through it, when zoomed in gps said I was above the airfield I slowed and descended!! I kid you not
Or the soon to be ppl applicant that despite a non existent horizon and a clearly lowering cloud base, pressed on despite very obvious hints to the contrary, before flying into cloud at 1000' AGL in an R44. First reaction was to gulp and freeze on the controls, rapidly selecting left roll and nose down. As the FI took control student uttered ' Can you do this please'. Control was regained, a level 180 turn completed and when the aircraft went back VMC it was less than 300' AGL I know the facts, as I was the FI!!!! This was with a student who had been very sensible throughout their ppl. To finish the story, once they'd recovered the stude asked to continue with the nav exercise. Hints were again given to the contrary and eventually they were taken. A decision was made by the student to return to base, but via the most direct route - that involved flying over the high ground! You've guessed it. Straight back into IMC and very low to the ground 
I took control as we neared the grey, maintained control throughout and we had an interesting debrief and discussion on future training 
It remains the scariest thing I've ever done in a helicopter (I was low hours and no IR) and I never gave a student that much leeway again.
FWIW I think the syllabus is there trying to show students that IMC flight in an unstabilised single is not only very different, but very difficult. Sadly you cannot guarantee that all students will appreciate and respect that lesson.
Recall the B206 that landed in worsening weather, waited about 3 hours and despite no improvement now thought it safer to continue
4 fatalities IIRC. What a needless waste of life
Reality is there will always be 'One' that thinks they know better.
Sadly it does
As a previous FI and now an IR holder there is a real difference between Sim IMC, knowing somebody else can see outside and actual IMC.Examples:
Lowish hours ppl(h) holder and R44 owner - reguarly flies through and in cloud. Once saw him fly into a basically fog bound airfield. Explanation given was punched up through it, when zoomed in gps said I was above the airfield I slowed and descended!! I kid you not
Or the soon to be ppl applicant that despite a non existent horizon and a clearly lowering cloud base, pressed on despite very obvious hints to the contrary, before flying into cloud at 1000' AGL in an R44. First reaction was to gulp and freeze on the controls, rapidly selecting left roll and nose down. As the FI took control student uttered ' Can you do this please'. Control was regained, a level 180 turn completed and when the aircraft went back VMC it was less than 300' AGL
I know the facts, as I was the FI!!!! This was with a student who had been very sensible throughout their ppl. To finish the story, once they'd recovered the stude asked to continue with the nav exercise. Hints were again given to the contrary and eventually they were taken. A decision was made by the student to return to base, but via the most direct route - that involved flying over the high ground! You've guessed it. Straight back into IMC and very low to the ground I took control as we neared the grey, maintained control throughout and we had an interesting debrief and discussion on future training It remains the scariest thing I've ever done in a helicopter (I was low hours and no IR) and I never gave a student that much leeway again.FWIW I think the syllabus is there trying to show students that IMC flight in an unstabilised single is not only very different, but very difficult. Sadly you cannot guarantee that all students will appreciate and respect that lesson.
Recall the B206 that landed in worsening weather, waited about 3 hours and despite no improvement now thought it safer to continue
4 fatalities IIRC. What a needless waste of life Reality is there will always be 'One' that thinks they know better.
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Not many been there in the R22, ...but my suggestion is this...
DONT GO THERE!!
Much easier to take out any .45 Smith & Wesson load 5 flatnosed shells ( leave the sixth chamber empty) spin the chamber, point at head and pull softly on the trigger, if nothing goes bang consider the lesson learnt empty all cylinders and then recite to yourself, wow Ive been lucky! if you are PPL(H) then stay VFR, its much nicer to be able to talk after your flights, rather than talked about......... But then there are always some who will try to expand the envelope, and when it rips its too late!
VfrpilotPB/2
Peter R-B
DONT GO THERE!!
Much easier to take out any .45 Smith & Wesson load 5 flatnosed shells ( leave the sixth chamber empty) spin the chamber, point at head and pull softly on the trigger, if nothing goes bang consider the lesson learnt empty all cylinders and then recite to yourself, wow Ive been lucky! if you are PPL(H) then stay VFR, its much nicer to be able to talk after your flights, rather than talked about......... But then there are always some who will try to expand the envelope, and when it rips its too late!
VfrpilotPB/2
Peter R-B
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A good friend of mine went Inadvertant IMC in an R-44. He was a talented CFII and his student was also a rated helicopter pilot. They both died. Here is the link to the NTSB reports:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...30X00889&key=1
You do not want to go IMC in any helicopter without SAS or autopilot
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...30X00889&key=1
You do not want to go IMC in any helicopter without SAS or autopilot
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A good friend of mine went Inadvertant IMC in an R-44. He was a talented CFII and his student was also a rated helicopter pilot. They both died. Here is the link to the NTSB reports:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...30X00889&key=1
You do not want to go IMC in any helicopter without SAS or autopilot
Not to speak ill of the dead, BUT.
That accident has nothing to do with SAS or autopilot. He intentionally went IMC at night with a non IFR helicopter. Then he circled down through the clouds and hit the ground. If you are making decisions like that, it doesn't matter what you are flying.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...30X00889&key=1
You do not want to go IMC in any helicopter without SAS or autopilot
Not to speak ill of the dead, BUT.
That accident has nothing to do with SAS or autopilot. He intentionally went IMC at night with a non IFR helicopter. Then he circled down through the clouds and hit the ground. If you are making decisions like that, it doesn't matter what you are flying.
Last edited by gomez308; 11th Apr 2008 at 20:11.
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Instrument flying in singles
After the first page of this thread, I could barely believe what I was reading ... then the experienced guys came in and started to shout the message loud & clear.
Don't attempt cloud flying in a light single in any circumstances.
And for those guys able to afford a twin, the message is the same until you have the full instrument rating and our cleared to do so by an IRE.
The top north sea and corporate guys fly IFR for breakfast of course, but they've all done around 50 hours dedicated instrument training on top of a fairly average 1000 hours. I'm a 13.700 hour rotary man with an ex RAF fixed wing 'Master Green' instrument card, but these days it wouldn't enter my head to attempt IFR in any helicopter without a ton of serious instrument practice first. And as has been noted here, in the UK, single engine IMC is not legal anyway.
On a personal basis, I regard the EASA (CAA) 5 hour PPL requirement as an open invitation to an accident. Please see the LOOP article November 2007. www.loop.aero.
Sadly, I am now up to number 8 counting the number of good colleagues I have lost while flying knowingly or unknowingly into cloud. Three of them professionally qualified.
The advice is clear ... Don't attempt it. Sure, you may be good enough to manage it ... but you don't want to be airborne in cloud when you discover you aren't!
Hope we can discuss the issue on our informal safety evenings.
Safe flying to all,
Dennis Kenyon.
Don't attempt cloud flying in a light single in any circumstances.
And for those guys able to afford a twin, the message is the same until you have the full instrument rating and our cleared to do so by an IRE.
The top north sea and corporate guys fly IFR for breakfast of course, but they've all done around 50 hours dedicated instrument training on top of a fairly average 1000 hours. I'm a 13.700 hour rotary man with an ex RAF fixed wing 'Master Green' instrument card, but these days it wouldn't enter my head to attempt IFR in any helicopter without a ton of serious instrument practice first. And as has been noted here, in the UK, single engine IMC is not legal anyway.
On a personal basis, I regard the EASA (CAA) 5 hour PPL requirement as an open invitation to an accident. Please see the LOOP article November 2007. www.loop.aero.
Sadly, I am now up to number 8 counting the number of good colleagues I have lost while flying knowingly or unknowingly into cloud. Three of them professionally qualified.
The advice is clear ... Don't attempt it. Sure, you may be good enough to manage it ... but you don't want to be airborne in cloud when you discover you aren't!
Hope we can discuss the issue on our informal safety evenings.
Safe flying to all,
Dennis Kenyon.
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Just a note on my post I did my ppl before the 5 hour imc training came about and as I now teach this to others I don't agree it's a good idea, better to spend the time on improving airmanship and nav skills.
That's Life!!
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IIRC the Bristow cadets did an IFR course at Redhill on the R22, albeit with an instructor always present and were 'examined' by the CAA before being released to main bases.
unlicensed/untrained people
ergo it can be done under the proper circumstances.
unlicensed/untrained people
ergo it can be done under the proper circumstances.
I once flew a 206B up through 3000' of cloud, but I knew it was clear on top and I was current IFR on 2 other Bell types, (one of which had force trim, but not 'beepable'), and I knew that I was climbing over the sea, before turning onto track.
The Whirlwind 7 (S-fifty something) I flew while training didn't have a trim either, but we did manage to get a basic military IR.
BTW, I've never flown the R22 and have no wish to do so!!
(Excuse the gravelly voice, I've got a cold!)
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I think its worth mentioning that going inadvertent IMC in a light helicopter not approved to fly in IMC (Not just R22s or singles) with a pilot who has only had the basic instrument flight training is a world apart from an instrument rated pilot having pre planned a flight taking into account minimum altitudes for terrain clearance, freezing levels etc, flying a machine certified to fly IMC.
I think the 5 hours instrument training will lull some people into a false sense of security to think they can do this, it depends on the person. I think the 5 hours could be better spent teaching students how to avoid going IMC in the first place.
My advice is do what ever you have to do to stay below cloud in the first place, if you make a decision early enough you should be able to divert to another airport etc but ultimately if you can’t do that then stick the machine on the deck.
I think the 5 hours instrument training will lull some people into a false sense of security to think they can do this, it depends on the person. I think the 5 hours could be better spent teaching students how to avoid going IMC in the first place.
My advice is do what ever you have to do to stay below cloud in the first place, if you make a decision early enough you should be able to divert to another airport etc but ultimately if you can’t do that then stick the machine on the deck.
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Sailor,
I wasn't trying to make my reply a direct attack.
As an industry we cannot escape the fact that CFIT is the single biggest cause of fatalities and injuires within the UK
Nor can we escape the fact that a great number of those incidents stem from totally poor airmanship decisions early on.
And that is my point also 
although FWIW I dislike the term inadvertent IMC The clouds don't just suddenly jump out and surround you whilst simultaneously shouting 'surprise' The weather hints have more than likely been there for ages (forecasts and actual observations) it's just some choose to ignore them or leave a potentially good decision until far too late.
An experienced IR holder, particularly a 'current' one would have no major issues acting as you've suggested (legal issues aside). BUT how many current ME IR holders would deliberately take such a needless risk.?
What 'we' are trying to strongly discourage are non IR trained pilots (and I include JAA PPL's, CPL's and FI's who regardless of simulated IMC hours do not hold an IR) from being foolish enough to fly IMC, unqualified/untrained in a non IFR approved light helicopter.
We have to bear in mind that many who find themselves inadvertent IMC never set out to be there. They've more than likely set out on a marginal weather day, the weather (cloud base and viz) has gradually worsened and to compensate they've systematically got slower and lower whilst they've pressed on (scud running). They are going to be stressed and close to mental overload, just about at the point they go IMC
Previous threads have shown that a percentage of pilots believe this get lower and slower to be an adequate way of attempting to squeeze past poor weather. Some believeing that being very low at a hover taxi speed in total IMC is easily recoverable Even when IR holders have explained about minimum IFR control speeds and hinted at the meticulous planning that goes into an off airfield IMC cloud break to a private site.
I cast no illusions. At times it is extremely hard work in a well equipped and approved IFR machine (and I'm current). To attempt similar in a non approved A/c is a mindless and needless attempt at assisted suicide
The least experienced press on, when the more experienced turn back, only to see the most experienced who never set off in the first place.
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was flying, than flying and wishing I was on the ground.
If we want the CFIT incident rate to decline I agree with the founders of the safety eveings, that the more experienced pilots should provide clear unambiguous guidance to those with less. Hopefully the UK safety evenings will dispel some of the myths and old wives tales/ bravado.
I wasn't trying to make my reply a direct attack.
As an industry we cannot escape the fact that CFIT is the single biggest cause of fatalities and injuires within the UK
Nor can we escape the fact that a great number of those incidents stem from totally poor airmanship decisions early on.
Flingingwings; my point is that INADVERTENT IMC should be 'escapable' from' if it isn't, don't go there
although FWIW I dislike the term inadvertent IMC The clouds don't just suddenly jump out and surround you whilst simultaneously shouting 'surprise' The weather hints have more than likely been there for ages (forecasts and actual observations) it's just some choose to ignore them or leave a potentially good decision until far too late.An experienced IR holder, particularly a 'current' one would have no major issues acting as you've suggested (legal issues aside). BUT how many current ME IR holders would deliberately take such a needless risk.?
What 'we' are trying to strongly discourage are non IR trained pilots (and I include JAA PPL's, CPL's and FI's who regardless of simulated IMC hours do not hold an IR) from being foolish enough to fly IMC, unqualified/untrained in a non IFR approved light helicopter.
We have to bear in mind that many who find themselves inadvertent IMC never set out to be there. They've more than likely set out on a marginal weather day, the weather (cloud base and viz) has gradually worsened and to compensate they've systematically got slower and lower whilst they've pressed on (scud running). They are going to be stressed and close to mental overload, just about at the point they go IMC
Previous threads have shown that a percentage of pilots believe this get lower and slower to be an adequate way of attempting to squeeze past poor weather. Some believeing that being very low at a hover taxi speed in total IMC is easily recoverable
Even when IR holders have explained about minimum IFR control speeds and hinted at the meticulous planning that goes into an off airfield IMC cloud break to a private site.I cast no illusions. At times it is extremely hard work in a well equipped and approved IFR machine (and I'm current). To attempt similar in a non approved A/c is a mindless and needless attempt at assisted suicide
The least experienced press on, when the more experienced turn back, only to see the most experienced who never set off in the first place.
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was flying, than flying and wishing I was on the ground.
If we want the CFIT incident rate to decline I agree with the founders of the safety eveings, that the more experienced pilots should provide clear unambiguous guidance to those with less. Hopefully the UK safety evenings will dispel some of the myths and old wives tales/ bravado.
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Gomez308-
I agree that the accident I posted has less to do with SAS or autopilot, and more to do with pilot decision making. My point is that without the proper tools, if you go IMC inadvertantly or intentionally (makes no difference to me), you are taking incredibly enormous risks.
I've flown a bunch of time under the hood in the R-22 and R-44, doing everything by myself, with no assistance at all- and that is the way I taught my students to fly IFR in the R-22, as well. Later in my career, flying 412's and S-76's IFR dual pilot was a real eye opener- it was relaxing and it made sense.....very unlike when I had to fly that R-22 for IFR x-country flights under the hood.
I have no doubt that there will be/are some people taking the IFR paneled R-44's out for a spin in the clouds. What a stupid thing to do.
I've flown IFR IMC without an autopilot, but I would never attempt it without SAS. One distraction and you are a goner.
I agree that the accident I posted has less to do with SAS or autopilot, and more to do with pilot decision making. My point is that without the proper tools, if you go IMC inadvertantly or intentionally (makes no difference to me), you are taking incredibly enormous risks.
I've flown a bunch of time under the hood in the R-22 and R-44, doing everything by myself, with no assistance at all- and that is the way I taught my students to fly IFR in the R-22, as well. Later in my career, flying 412's and S-76's IFR dual pilot was a real eye opener- it was relaxing and it made sense.....very unlike when I had to fly that R-22 for IFR x-country flights under the hood.
I have no doubt that there will be/are some people taking the IFR paneled R-44's out for a spin in the clouds. What a stupid thing to do.
I've flown IFR IMC without an autopilot, but I would never attempt it without SAS. One distraction and you are a goner.
Glad to see a discussion here which generally points in the direction required. I believe it's just a matter of getting low timers and the inexperienced to take note of others and not be afraid of saying 'no, not flying today. Lets go tomorrow if it's improved'
Anyone who fits IFR kit to an R44 then goes IMC to 'try it out' is a tit! It would be cheaper to just jump off a bridge and kill yourself.
Become more proficient at reading Met forms.
Anyone who fits IFR kit to an R44 then goes IMC to 'try it out' is a tit! It would be cheaper to just jump off a bridge and kill yourself.
Become more proficient at reading Met forms.
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Hi, Very interesting topic FWIW my 5 cents worth
firstly I would never be tempted to do IMC in a single , if its that bad wx then dont go, turn back or LAND THE BLOODY THING.
I quite like the 5 hrs simulated instrument in the ppl. I tell the students yes you should not get yourself into trouble but if it does happen this will help to get you out of it. Use the five hours to show how difficlt it is to control the thing on instruments. Get them to put it into an unusual attitude by closing their eyes and trying to fly the machine straight and level, when its in a nice unusual atitude get them to open their eyes and recover. I find this makes the point quite well. If they are doing unusually well pull the gyro CB. sure as eggs are eggs the one time you need it it will break!
If I find out one of my students flys into IMC I will bloody
Be safe
firstly I would never be tempted to do IMC in a single , if its that bad wx then dont go, turn back or LAND THE BLOODY THING.
I quite like the 5 hrs simulated instrument in the ppl. I tell the students yes you should not get yourself into trouble but if it does happen this will help to get you out of it. Use the five hours to show how difficlt it is to control the thing on instruments. Get them to put it into an unusual attitude by closing their eyes and trying to fly the machine straight and level, when its in a nice unusual atitude get them to open their eyes and recover. I find this makes the point quite well. If they are doing unusually well pull the gyro CB. sure as eggs are eggs the one time you need it it will break!
If I find out one of my students flys into IMC I will bloody
Be safe
I've been reading this with great interest.
This particular subject does feature very early in the safety evenings.
I think that some of the problems we have in the UK, are
When you read this its sounds like I am having a dig at instructors, but I am not. I have been at both ends of the scale where I am allowed to teach instruments and radio nav to CPL students (when I have no instrument experience myself). I have been allowed to teach Met to PPL students with no real experience of the UK weather. Now a bit older and perhaps no wiser, I believe the the CPL instrument training should be carried out by someone with actual instrument experience (not neccesarily a current IR perhaps previous military).
I think the 5 hrs instrument is a red herring, its generally taught by the wrong people, under foggles which are hardly the most restricitive things in the world (yes its harder, but nowhere near as hard as with screens or actual IMC).
I've just got back into R22 flying after a couple of years off the type, and am not surprised that half the gyro instruments in the ones I've been in are u/s, not completely but they do lose their alignment quite quickly, I can only assume that this is due to the environment they get operated in (training doing EOLS, and being left running during startup and shutdown).
We will hopefully have the Met Office aviation forecasters running some courses for helicopter pilots soon, I am just trying to get it sorted if anyone is interested (I suggest we discuss that in the heli safety thread or a new one and not here to avoid too much thread creep.) Thread on this can be found here.
The R22 is a brilliant helicopter if you use it for what it was designed for, if you use it outside that environment it might (and going IMC it probably will) bite you in the arse.
Gary
This particular subject does feature very early in the safety evenings.
I think that some of the problems we have in the UK, are
- a lack of understanding of the dangers of going IMC in an unstabilised helicopter (single or twin)
- Inadequate training on CPL courses (by people who have no instrument experience)
- A lack of any decision making training whatsoever.
- Over confident students being 'trained' to fly on instruments (so they think)
- A lack of any formal training in the UK weather, by someone more qualified than an FI.
When you read this its sounds like I am having a dig at instructors, but I am not. I have been at both ends of the scale where I am allowed to teach instruments and radio nav to CPL students (when I have no instrument experience myself). I have been allowed to teach Met to PPL students with no real experience of the UK weather. Now a bit older and perhaps no wiser, I believe the the CPL instrument training should be carried out by someone with actual instrument experience (not neccesarily a current IR perhaps previous military).
I think the 5 hrs instrument is a red herring, its generally taught by the wrong people, under foggles which are hardly the most restricitive things in the world (yes its harder, but nowhere near as hard as with screens or actual IMC).
I've just got back into R22 flying after a couple of years off the type, and am not surprised that half the gyro instruments in the ones I've been in are u/s, not completely but they do lose their alignment quite quickly, I can only assume that this is due to the environment they get operated in (training doing EOLS, and being left running during startup and shutdown).
We will hopefully have the Met Office aviation forecasters running some courses for helicopter pilots soon, I am just trying to get it sorted if anyone is interested (I suggest we discuss that in the heli safety thread or a new one and not here to avoid too much thread creep.) Thread on this can be found here.
The R22 is a brilliant helicopter if you use it for what it was designed for, if you use it outside that environment it might (and going IMC it probably will) bite you in the arse.
Gary
Last edited by VeeAny; 12th Apr 2008 at 11:56.
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Perhaps if we where allowed to do off airfield landings with students they might feel better about landing in fields in bad weather? the recent gold cup was a good example of knowing your limits as on the saturday we had 5 helis to recover from verious fileds as the pilots reached there limits and did not think twice about landing where they were.
Normaly the first time PPL's land off airfield is after they have passed maybe we should be paying more attention to teaching these guys to go in and out the places they are likely to visit, which might also make them more happy landing in places other than airfields.
Normaly the first time PPL's land off airfield is after they have passed maybe we should be paying more attention to teaching these guys to go in and out the places they are likely to visit, which might also make them more happy landing in places other than airfields.
CrazyBroadSword
Couldn't agree more, one of the things that we are trying to encourage through helicopter safety is post PPL training for the things that are actually useful in the real world.
I can't see us getting the JAA syllabus changed, but if schools were to apply a post licence pre hire syllabus or pilots asked for it there is nothing to stop it.
Sorry for going of thread again, but its all about training to stay alive.
Gary
Couldn't agree more, one of the things that we are trying to encourage through helicopter safety is post PPL training for the things that are actually useful in the real world.
I can't see us getting the JAA syllabus changed, but if schools were to apply a post licence pre hire syllabus or pilots asked for it there is nothing to stop it.
Sorry for going of thread again, but its all about training to stay alive.
Gary
I know of an examiner in the UK who has recently flown IMC with PPL(H)s in unstabilised singles. The PPL(H)s were tasked with the VMC foggles-on 180 deg turn and both made a satisfactory effort. Straight afterwards, the aircraft was climbed into cloud and the PPLs asked to once again perform the 180 deg turn. Both effectively lost control after about 20 to 30 seconds!
Don't ever go IMC in an unstabilised single! Do whatever is necessary to stay out of cloud, even if that means temporarily breaking Rule 5. No-one, to my knowledge, has ever crashed into the ANO!
Fly safe
JJ
Don't ever go IMC in an unstabilised single! Do whatever is necessary to stay out of cloud, even if that means temporarily breaking Rule 5. No-one, to my knowledge, has ever crashed into the ANO!
Fly safe
JJ
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landing off airfield..
I second that. Post PPL I went to New Zealand just to learn the basics of non airfield landings/flying. After PPL I felt unprepared for this environment (and I had great instructors. Just the syllabus is lacking....
I think the 5 hr PPl instrmnts was useful and made me safer at the time.... but the above point should be impressed on students equally strongly... i.e What you don't know is this.. etc etc... e.g keeping yr speed/failing AH etc.
I think its worth mentioning that going inadvertent IMC in a light helicopter not approved to fly in IMC (Not just R22s or singles) with a pilot who has only had the basic instrument flight training is a world apart from an instrument rated pilot having pre planned a flight taking into account minimum altitudes for terrain clearance, freezing levels etc, flying a machine certified to fly IMC.
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Here is another, the good old ABC news.
The date of this report was 10/09/2004
QLD Country Hour Summary
FQLD Country Hour Summary
Friday 10/09/2004
riday 10/09/2004
The date of this report was 10/09/2004
QLD Country Hour Summary
FQLD Country Hour Summary
Friday 10/09/2004
riday 10/09/2004
Cattle king killed in helicopter crash - Arlie Douglas
The cattle industry is coming to terms today with the death of one of the country's largest landholders - killed in a helicopter accident in south-west Queensland this week. 74 year old Brian Oxenford and pilot Justin Wallace died when their four seater chopper crashed near the airstrip at Eurella Station near Muckadilla on Wednesday night. In 1997 Mr Oxenford was reported to be the third largest private landholder in country with Western Grazing holding 2.5 million hectare at the time. His interests included the famous Wave Hill lease in the Northern Territory, Magowra Station, Morestone and Oban, just outside Mount Isa and and an assortment of properties in
south-western Queensland. This year, Western Grazing has reportedly payed 50 million dollars for former Stanbroke holding Tanbar Station at Windorah and is believed to have aquired another Stanbroke gem Rocklands at Camooweal. Brian Oxenford is survived by his wife Elva, and children Lee, Pam, Loray and Dale. Property agent David Tannock spoke to Arlie Douglas about his friend - who he described as an intensely private person.
David Tannock, property agent
The cattle industry is coming to terms today with the death of one of the country's largest landholders - killed in a helicopter accident in south-west Queensland this week. 74 year old Brian Oxenford and pilot Justin Wallace died when their four seater chopper crashed near the airstrip at Eurella Station near Muckadilla on Wednesday night. In 1997 Mr Oxenford was reported to be the third largest private landholder in country with Western Grazing holding 2.5 million hectare at the time. His interests included the famous Wave Hill lease in the Northern Territory, Magowra Station, Morestone and Oban, just outside Mount Isa and and an assortment of properties in
south-western Queensland. This year, Western Grazing has reportedly payed 50 million dollars for former Stanbroke holding Tanbar Station at Windorah and is believed to have aquired another Stanbroke gem Rocklands at Camooweal. Brian Oxenford is survived by his wife Elva, and children Lee, Pam, Loray and Dale. Property agent David Tannock spoke to Arlie Douglas about his friend - who he described as an intensely private person.
David Tannock, property agent
Oxenford I knew well and the pilot not so well. He was a well experienced corporate turbine F/W IFR pilot with several, no many renewals, up his sleeve.
He went with his brand new R44 to visit Brian who talked him into a bit of a survey, I assume a freebie and got caught late. R44 I believe only had a standard panel. the ATSB report, I don't have the link, makes interesting reading.
The pilot I think had about three hundred in R/W
RIP say no more.
He went with his brand new R44 to visit Brian who talked him into a bit of a survey, I assume a freebie and got caught late. R44 I believe only had a standard panel. the ATSB report, I don't have the link, makes interesting reading.
The pilot I think had about three hundred in R/W
RIP say no more.