L@ser & searchlight attacks on aircraft (incl prison sentences on offenders)
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Indeed Peter, Police Apache included.
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/449...asu-fleet.html
Hi all,
have been to a symposium about laserdangers to employs lately.
There were new assests and tests done and the findings aren´t to nice for pilots.
Even an exposure of 100 msec (just a flash on the eye) leads to afterimmages and problems to read i.e. QNH-Values or other cockpit information - ranging around 30 sec in the middle to nearly two minutes!
All test done with laserenergy which wasn´t able to harm the eye - so with high power lasers the times surely will be longer....
If you get targeted at - don´t look for the laser!!!!
Fly safe
have been to a symposium about laserdangers to employs lately.
There were new assests and tests done and the findings aren´t to nice for pilots.
Even an exposure of 100 msec (just a flash on the eye) leads to afterimmages and problems to read i.e. QNH-Values or other cockpit information - ranging around 30 sec in the middle to nearly two minutes!
All test done with laserenergy which wasn´t able to harm the eye - so with high power lasers the times surely will be longer....
If you get targeted at - don´t look for the laser!!!!
Fly safe
And one to calm things down...
During this years demonstrations I was in a ship hit by a number of green lasers, I stopped counting sources at 5, but officers on the ground said the helicopter was green. I was using NVG's, forcing myself only to look through them. I didn't get orange vision and pain (like I did once getting a direct hit).
I just had my medical on which they did all kinds of tests - as I told them about the events - and I got through ok. No discrepancies from last years results.
Doc gave me a selftest eyepiece, looking through you see a mesh of straight lines. Looking at the center dot and using only your peripheral vision; if the lines are straight and you see all parts of the lines and all line crossings, odds are you are fine.
Just my recent experience.
During this years demonstrations I was in a ship hit by a number of green lasers, I stopped counting sources at 5, but officers on the ground said the helicopter was green. I was using NVG's, forcing myself only to look through them. I didn't get orange vision and pain (like I did once getting a direct hit).
I just had my medical on which they did all kinds of tests - as I told them about the events - and I got through ok. No discrepancies from last years results.
Doc gave me a selftest eyepiece, looking through you see a mesh of straight lines. Looking at the center dot and using only your peripheral vision; if the lines are straight and you see all parts of the lines and all line crossings, odds are you are fine.
Just my recent experience.
L@ser & searchlight attacks on aircraft (incl prison sentences on offenders)
@Phoinix,
Do you get paid by Lasercompanys?
As long as your eyes don't get hit you surely have only a minor problem with a lit cockpit.
Still you can't perform your task as sheduled, you might miss a red obsticle light and fly into it and you might even get hit with NVG down!
Do you get paid by Lasercompanys?
As long as your eyes don't get hit you surely have only a minor problem with a lit cockpit.
Still you can't perform your task as sheduled, you might miss a red obsticle light and fly into it and you might even get hit with NVG down!
Hi Phoinix,
I just say, if you haven´t been hit in the eye you are
1st - lucky
2nd - don´t try to calm things down you don´t know anything of!
I´ve been hit directly in the eye looking down at the time.
I got disorientated and kind of seasick within a second and wasn´t able to perform tasks for nearly two minutes - luckily I was just the copilot....
Not been able to see / read cockpitinformation for this timespan were also the findings of the tests performed with 100 msec laser-illumination (with not harmful power)
So whoever is reading this thread - don´t listen to people who don´t have experiance and treat laserattacks as non hazard - a laserattack can hurt - and even kill you, depending on flightconditions, height, time of exposure and so on!
Try to avoid looking into the beam - use autopilot, if fitted, when you expect attacks, try to shield your eyes and look into the cockpit!
If possible - turn away!
I just say, if you haven´t been hit in the eye you are
1st - lucky
2nd - don´t try to calm things down you don´t know anything of!
I´ve been hit directly in the eye looking down at the time.
I got disorientated and kind of seasick within a second and wasn´t able to perform tasks for nearly two minutes - luckily I was just the copilot....
Not been able to see / read cockpitinformation for this timespan were also the findings of the tests performed with 100 msec laser-illumination (with not harmful power)
So whoever is reading this thread - don´t listen to people who don´t have experiance and treat laserattacks as non hazard - a laserattack can hurt - and even kill you, depending on flightconditions, height, time of exposure and so on!
Try to avoid looking into the beam - use autopilot, if fitted, when you expect attacks, try to shield your eyes and look into the cockpit!
If possible - turn away!
Like I said, you are still interpreting my experience your way and your way only.
I never said I was not lucky and that its not dangerous. I only said that my peripheral vision was not damaged, keeping my eye on the googles.
As our line of work requires a safe landing and medical fitness for another flight and I require my medical to pay bills, the exposure to idiots with "toys" got me worried about a lot of consequences. My point only, was to say that I got through alright.
Its not black/white - you see a laser, you die - its gray. And gray has limits, for which only medical specialists are trained for... not us, we just work.
I never said I was not lucky and that its not dangerous. I only said that my peripheral vision was not damaged, keeping my eye on the googles.
As our line of work requires a safe landing and medical fitness for another flight and I require my medical to pay bills, the exposure to idiots with "toys" got me worried about a lot of consequences. My point only, was to say that I got through alright.
Its not black/white - you see a laser, you die - its gray. And gray has limits, for which only medical specialists are trained for... not us, we just work.
Last edited by Phoinix; 18th Sep 2013 at 12:39.
From ABC News
Man charged after laser pointer aimed at police helicopter in Coburg - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Man charged after laser pointer aimed at police helicopter in Coburg
A man has been charged after a laser pointer was aimed at a police helicopter in Melbourne's north last night.
Officers in the helicopter helped track down the laser, which was being shone from a moving car in Lindsey Street, Coburg, at about 10:00pm AEST.
Four men were arrested and a 20-year-old man from Preston was charged with interfering with conduct endangering life and possessing a prohibited weapon.
He was released on bail until a court hearing next month.
Police said an 18-year-old man from Coburg will be charged on summons with possessing a prohibited weapon.
Two other men were released without charge.
Issuing a warning over the use of laser pointers, Sergeant Greg Johnson said: "Used towards aircraft or other road users they're potentially blinding.
"Some of these things are incredibly strong and they can have potentially fatal consequences."
Man charged after laser pointer aimed at police helicopter in Coburg - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Man charged after laser pointer aimed at police helicopter in Coburg
A man has been charged after a laser pointer was aimed at a police helicopter in Melbourne's north last night.
Officers in the helicopter helped track down the laser, which was being shone from a moving car in Lindsey Street, Coburg, at about 10:00pm AEST.
Four men were arrested and a 20-year-old man from Preston was charged with interfering with conduct endangering life and possessing a prohibited weapon.
He was released on bail until a court hearing next month.
Police said an 18-year-old man from Coburg will be charged on summons with possessing a prohibited weapon.
Two other men were released without charge.
Issuing a warning over the use of laser pointers, Sergeant Greg Johnson said: "Used towards aircraft or other road users they're potentially blinding.
"Some of these things are incredibly strong and they can have potentially fatal consequences."
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Barrister banned from profession for shining laser at police helicopter
Mohammed Arif Riaz will be expelled from the profession and no longer be able to call himself a barrister, after the Bar Standards Board successfully brought disciplinary charges against him at a tribunal.
The Bar Standards Board said he acted with astonishing recklessness.
A five-person disciplinary panel found the 27-year-old had engaged in conduct discreditable to a barrister.
It also found he had previously failed to declare prior criminal convictions, after being convicted on guilty pleas of theft and handling stolen goods offences in 2004. Riaz was not present nor represented at the hearing which took place last month.
He was banned from the profession this week. The hearing was told that Riaz had admitted pointing a laser pen at the cockpit of a West Midlands Police helicopter in August 2011. He was sentenced to eight months in prison last June at Birmingham Crown Court. The Bar Standards Boards head of professional conduct Sara Down said: Mr Riaz acted dishonestly and with astonishing recklessness. It is the best outcome for the public that he is no longer a member of the profession.
Express & Star
Mohammed Arif Riaz will be expelled from the profession and no longer be able to call himself a barrister, after the Bar Standards Board successfully brought disciplinary charges against him at a tribunal.
The Bar Standards Board said he acted with astonishing recklessness.
A five-person disciplinary panel found the 27-year-old had engaged in conduct discreditable to a barrister.
It also found he had previously failed to declare prior criminal convictions, after being convicted on guilty pleas of theft and handling stolen goods offences in 2004. Riaz was not present nor represented at the hearing which took place last month.
He was banned from the profession this week. The hearing was told that Riaz had admitted pointing a laser pen at the cockpit of a West Midlands Police helicopter in August 2011. He was sentenced to eight months in prison last June at Birmingham Crown Court. The Bar Standards Boards head of professional conduct Sara Down said: Mr Riaz acted dishonestly and with astonishing recklessness. It is the best outcome for the public that he is no longer a member of the profession.
Express & Star
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CAA Monthly Occurence Safety data
Safety Data - General Aviation Reports: December 2012 - General Aviation Reports | Publications | About the CAA
Safety data just out for November. A staggering 47 laser attacks in the month, up from 9 in the previous month and 7 the month before.
19 directed on EC135 - presumably mainly police helis. Even allowing for the winter months, an exponential increase on numbers from 12 months ago, a worrying trend.
Safety data just out for November. A staggering 47 laser attacks in the month, up from 9 in the previous month and 7 the month before.
19 directed on EC135 - presumably mainly police helis. Even allowing for the winter months, an exponential increase on numbers from 12 months ago, a worrying trend.
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Laser Shining at Police Heli by member of Public
Last edited by JohnnnyD; 21st Jan 2014 at 13:47.
Avoid imitations
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It's the most stupid of things to do, to target the occupants of a police vehicle which provides it's own evidence, easily upheld in court. The laser beam itself leads straight to the hand of the perpetrator and the helicopter can immediately record the evidence on video, identify the address or vehicle, or even the guilty individual and lead police ground vehicles directly to that location. Chances are, if the helicopter is there, the ground vehicles are not far away and in radio contact.
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I was flying in the Aberdeen area a good few years ago and we were unlucky to be on the receiving end of a green laser attack at night time. Luckily there were two of us and I was on instruments. The other pilot's vision was affected.
The point I wanted to make (apologies if it's previously been raised) is that the beam does not necessarily need to be well aimed in order to cause problems. In my experience the small scratches and swirls in the plexiglass caused the beam to fragment into many beams. The entire canopy glowed and the beams bounced around inside the aircraft like a burglar alarm in an art gallery.
WB
The point I wanted to make (apologies if it's previously been raised) is that the beam does not necessarily need to be well aimed in order to cause problems. In my experience the small scratches and swirls in the plexiglass caused the beam to fragment into many beams. The entire canopy glowed and the beams bounced around inside the aircraft like a burglar alarm in an art gallery.
WB
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Would it be a simple thing to fit all Police Helis...with an instant Laser target reponse unit and counter zap the small area where said attacker was standing, possible with about a 100% power increase from that pointed upwards, possibly after that things may go quiet...
Mind you the NHS would then be handing out more White Sticks..but thats a cost we would have to bare
Peter RB
Lancashire
Mind you the NHS would then be handing out more White Sticks..but thats a cost we would have to bare
Peter RB
Lancashire
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Lighting them up with the 60 million candlepower night sun gives them a nice warm feeling....
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Danger Exaggerated?
It would appear in the 6+ years that this thread has been running that there have been no incidents of either helicopters or fixed wing aircraft crashing due to l@ser pointers being shone at them. Neither has any pilot suffered irreversible eye damage from being exposed to such attacks. This is a little puzzling in view of the thousands of reported incidents worldwide and the apparently wide range of powers used in various pointing devices.
It does seem from many of the reports that the aircraft were only saved by having two pilots, or supreme aviating skill, or a lot of luck. Statistically it is improbable that each of these factors was available either singly or in some combination in every incident reported.
While not wishing to understate the potential seriousness of these incidents and the unpleasant visual disruption caused to pilots, it seems that the dangers of l@ser pointers and bright lights being shone at aircraft has perhaps been exaggerated somewhat. It is an unecessary and avoidable additional hazard to flight, but I can't help but feel that these incidents have been sensationalised by the press and exaggerated by the victims in many instances.
The current range of penalties in the UK seems about right, at present, with the majority of idiots being fined and jail terms reserved for persistent offenders.
Has there actually been a substantiated case of an aircraft being downed, outside of military action, by a l@ser device anywhere in the world?
It does seem from many of the reports that the aircraft were only saved by having two pilots, or supreme aviating skill, or a lot of luck. Statistically it is improbable that each of these factors was available either singly or in some combination in every incident reported.
While not wishing to understate the potential seriousness of these incidents and the unpleasant visual disruption caused to pilots, it seems that the dangers of l@ser pointers and bright lights being shone at aircraft has perhaps been exaggerated somewhat. It is an unecessary and avoidable additional hazard to flight, but I can't help but feel that these incidents have been sensationalised by the press and exaggerated by the victims in many instances.
The current range of penalties in the UK seems about right, at present, with the majority of idiots being fined and jail terms reserved for persistent offenders.
Has there actually been a substantiated case of an aircraft being downed, outside of military action, by a l@ser device anywhere in the world?
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At least the amount of energy appearing in the eye aboard an aircraft that's at least 100s of meters from a mW laser is not likely to permanently damage vision.
It can certainly distract and dazzle, which remains a very serious matter.
"Looking away" isn't as easy as it sounds, as the eye can track to point at bright lights by reflex.
At least the sort of nice imaging turrets on police helicopters should be good for
providing very clear evidence against the perpetrators. I understand a handheld spectrograph can be used for additional confirmation that the pointer confiscated matches the one pointed at the aircraft (I left a note to that on the other thread on lasers).
It can certainly distract and dazzle, which remains a very serious matter.
"Looking away" isn't as easy as it sounds, as the eye can track to point at bright lights by reflex.
At least the sort of nice imaging turrets on police helicopters should be good for
providing very clear evidence against the perpetrators. I understand a handheld spectrograph can be used for additional confirmation that the pointer confiscated matches the one pointed at the aircraft (I left a note to that on the other thread on lasers).
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Interesting article:
Eyewear Helps Thwart Laser-Pointer Attacks | Features | Jan 2014 | Photonics Spectra
and the featured product:
Iridian, LaseReflect, , LaseReflect Aviators - 532/1064 nm,
Disclaimer: I have no skin in this game, I just happened to see this in Photonics Spectra magazine, which I get at work.
Eyewear Helps Thwart Laser-Pointer Attacks | Features | Jan 2014 | Photonics Spectra
and the featured product:
Iridian, LaseReflect, , LaseReflect Aviators - 532/1064 nm,
Disclaimer: I have no skin in this game, I just happened to see this in Photonics Spectra magazine, which I get at work.