North East UK Police Helicopter might be closed
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Didn't someone miss a point here
There is a key reason for two aircraft in this area. The North East ASU have NO air support unit neighbours. They provide mutual aid into Cumbria, Lothian and Borders and North Yorkshire. So when you have two aircraft, management of maintenance schedules ensures you always have an aircraft available. Now when you have one aircraft, when that goes down for a 400 hr for a week you have ........................ errrr ............... no access to any aircraft, as not even your neighbours have one. Now Mr ACPO, how does that equate to having adequate cover from one aircraft. There are no Eurocopter relief aircraft.
There will be times when there no air cover. Now would this have been the same outcome had the glasgow airport bomber decided to drive into Teeside airport instead.
As you say, these same people agreed the business case for a new second EC135 two years ago.
There will be times when there no air cover. Now would this have been the same outcome had the glasgow airport bomber decided to drive into Teeside airport instead.
As you say, these same people agreed the business case for a new second EC135 two years ago.
NorthSkyCop,
Spot on matey. However, as Jayteetoo pointed out very early on in this thread, someone in Headquarters with a career umbrella the size of a circus tent has already produced graphs and a power point presentation to show just how efficient 1 aircraft is compared to 2. In fact, same individual is already hard at work on another powerpoint to show that since the 2nd aircraft has gone, the level of crime has actually fallen by half!
Ergo, remove the remaining aircraft and there will be no crime.................................
Wow! that's lucky ~ looks like I'm the 999,999th person online and I've won an Audi A3!!! .....................................................Not
Spot on matey. However, as Jayteetoo pointed out very early on in this thread, someone in Headquarters with a career umbrella the size of a circus tent has already produced graphs and a power point presentation to show just how efficient 1 aircraft is compared to 2. In fact, same individual is already hard at work on another powerpoint to show that since the 2nd aircraft has gone, the level of crime has actually fallen by half!
Ergo, remove the remaining aircraft and there will be no crime.................................Wow! that's lucky ~ looks like I'm the 999,999th person online and I've won an Audi A3!!! .....................................................Not
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The Modern Police.
Another issue worthy of note is the casevac facility that NE asu provides to the region, and region I mean the neighbouring forces too.
The 2 aircraft often work in direct support of the local air ambulances, and will help out whenever asked. However once the helimeds are hangared up at night the only available resources to do this are the NE asu aircraft. SAR is an option but I understand they are on standby at night of around 30-60 minutes response time. I will stand corrected folks ?
The NE asu have excellent comms facilities and subsequently are aware of any unfolding incidents more or less as they happen, subsequently their response times are measured in how long it takes to re-role the aircraft and head off. So while SAR offers infinitely more expertise at scene with their highly skilled crews, they will generally always be 30-60 minutes behind a NE asu aircraft.
The Golden Hour Gets Longer
This is not a "poke" at any other of the emergency services available to the North east region, The NE asu is part of the big pie that lies over the good folk of this region, other pie members are the North East Air Ambulance & the RAF. The NE asu works very efficiently not only at catching criminals, but also works very well alongside more specialist trauma care, at scenes of major incidents/road accidents etc etc.
The pie is being sliced up, a smaller pie is no good to anyone, a smaller pie does not feed as many people, a smaller pie satisfies nobody, A smaller pie is cheaper.
The moral behind this post ?
Nobody likes a small pie ! , Especially a small cheap pie !
The 2 aircraft often work in direct support of the local air ambulances, and will help out whenever asked. However once the helimeds are hangared up at night the only available resources to do this are the NE asu aircraft. SAR is an option but I understand they are on standby at night of around 30-60 minutes response time. I will stand corrected folks ?
The NE asu have excellent comms facilities and subsequently are aware of any unfolding incidents more or less as they happen, subsequently their response times are measured in how long it takes to re-role the aircraft and head off. So while SAR offers infinitely more expertise at scene with their highly skilled crews, they will generally always be 30-60 minutes behind a NE asu aircraft.
The Golden Hour Gets Longer
This is not a "poke" at any other of the emergency services available to the North east region, The NE asu is part of the big pie that lies over the good folk of this region, other pie members are the North East Air Ambulance & the RAF. The NE asu works very efficiently not only at catching criminals, but also works very well alongside more specialist trauma care, at scenes of major incidents/road accidents etc etc.
The pie is being sliced up, a smaller pie is no good to anyone, a smaller pie does not feed as many people, a smaller pie satisfies nobody, A smaller pie is cheaper.
The moral behind this post ?
Nobody likes a small pie ! , Especially a small cheap pie !
Funnily enough after being told that "2 aircraft were not needed and that they never get airborne at the same time", was it just me or did anyone else see both aircraft working over the city and surrounding area during the local derby?
Curious
Curious
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Seen on telly this morning that they are using this argument to try and keep both the helicopters. Spoke to one of the NEASU lads a couple of days ago and he reckons morale is lower than a snakes a*se
Its all over. The monkeys have taken over the zoo!
Open season coming for the scroats. How long before they find out!
Tigerfish.
Open season coming for the scroats. How long before they find out!
Tigerfish.
Last edited by tigerfish; 25th Apr 2008 at 08:12.
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Heard from someone at Neasu that Cleveland may be going it alone with a fixed wing asset when they lose the helicopter to Northumbria. Also heard the civvie will be on his way to the dole office soon as they have decided to man the machines only with cops. Someone has seen sense.
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Heard from someone at Neasu that Cleveland may be going it alone with a fixed wing asset when they lose the helicopter to Northumbria. Also heard the civvie will be on his way to the dole office soon as they have decided to man the machines only with cops. Someone has seen sense.
MS
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Clueless
Well that seems to be the common trait here for the decision makers, from government level right to the senior management.
It’s getting worse and the papers today seem to point to labour now realising that there not going to get in next time round. (Not that any other party will be any better)
Police air support is expensive there is no getting around that, eurocopter uk don’t help much by adding so much extra money onto the cost of common parts. But with a tool that gets used more and more each day and for some of the most serious and dangerous tasks why would you want any one inside that aircraft who is not the best person for the job.
Some one who has been on the front line, who has chased a car at high speed, who has chased an offender in the dark, who has been on a firearms unit and knows how difficult it really is pointing a gun at some one. Who has held the hand of a dying person at the scene of an accident, who has has to tell a family member that there Alzheimer’s suffering mother has been found dead in a field. Has a PCSO, NO has a special NO.
All these are jobs where a police helicopter makes a difference it makes me sick to live in a country where the people in charge put a price on a person’s life.
It’s getting worse and the papers today seem to point to labour now realising that there not going to get in next time round. (Not that any other party will be any better)
Police air support is expensive there is no getting around that, eurocopter uk don’t help much by adding so much extra money onto the cost of common parts. But with a tool that gets used more and more each day and for some of the most serious and dangerous tasks why would you want any one inside that aircraft who is not the best person for the job.
Some one who has been on the front line, who has chased a car at high speed, who has chased an offender in the dark, who has been on a firearms unit and knows how difficult it really is pointing a gun at some one. Who has held the hand of a dying person at the scene of an accident, who has has to tell a family member that there Alzheimer’s suffering mother has been found dead in a field. Has a PCSO, NO has a special NO.
All these are jobs where a police helicopter makes a difference it makes me sick to live in a country where the people in charge put a price on a person’s life.
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Questions asked in Parliament today:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7397762.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7397762.stm
MS
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Perhaps this could be the shove that the Home Office needs to bring all police helicopter operations into central government ownership, a national air support strategy and coming into line with mil type regs to get away from the "public transport" plasi-cuffs. IMHO.
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Stick to the facts
Instead of going on an anti Special Constable and PCSO rant typical police federation stuff very little fact just throw mud
"all cops are heroes and everyone else are also ran’s "
You have no Knowledge of what the above officers have done in their service
and it is insulting to dismiss their roles .
Specials give their time freely to help the police service and instead of belittling them you should be supporting them and be grateful that there are still members of public who want to help the police service
PCSOs are daily dealing with a lot of the Mickey mouse jobs that Proper coppers wouldn’t want to do and don’t need a cop anyway
I am sure that you are a very experienced and valuable member of the police service and someone who it is vital is retained on the ASU
But you do yourself no justice by the disrespect you seem to show your fellow officers.
How many PCSOs and Specials go on and join the police force!!
The issues facing the Air support unit are far too serious to waste time looking for easy scapegoats.
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Thank Yoo Indeed
The pie thread was a pleasure pleased you enjoyed, no offence though honest....
PS Apparently the Government minister responding to MP Frank Cooks debate has hinted extra funding may be available, thats really good of them I think !
[I]However the funding, I would guess would have been available to any Police force looking to secure air support purchasing of upgrades and or new aircraft. So its not new money at all, the all talk pap. Its common knowledge what drives the current decisions, and who is driving the change.....
I hope Mr Cooks representations on behalf of his public will have the movers and modernisers looking very closely at their current curriculum vitaes, they may not be so fat,full and sound reading as they believe.
Yours respectfully
Chalfont DuPap
PS Apparently the Government minister responding to MP Frank Cooks debate has hinted extra funding may be available, thats really good of them I think !
[I]However the funding, I would guess would have been available to any Police force looking to secure air support purchasing of upgrades and or new aircraft. So its not new money at all, the all talk pap. Its common knowledge what drives the current decisions, and who is driving the change.....
I hope Mr Cooks representations on behalf of his public will have the movers and modernisers looking very closely at their current curriculum vitaes, they may not be so fat,full and sound reading as they believe.
Yours respectfully
Chalfont DuPap
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Timmy
It’s not a PCSO /Special rant at all. Both have there place in a modern police force. The point is that forces are just trying to save money and after spending 4.5 mill getting the best kit on a great aircraft why then play the penny pinching game.
Let’s face it would you put a low hour CPL(H) into a police role machine because it’s cheaper. So why go down the line of putting civilians in the aircraft to save money. Then to fill the hole of them not being police officers make them specials or PCSO’s ( not that there are police officers at all).
But infact when you look at shift allowance, weekend working, travelling expenses, night allowance and the fact that they can say no and not turn up for work. There are not actually cheaper at all.
There are some very willing and able officers who go onto being police constables, there are also some very poor police constables who should not be in the job. But when forces talk so much about best value why put the wrong people in the wrong job just to save money. It makes no sense at all. Lets face it the bean counters in this industry have absolutely no idea what happens at the pointy end and I know they don’t care. They would much rather save a pound today and pay a million out next year in litigation. (comments made which can be proved)
Going back onto the topic of this thread the only reason a police force is deciding to cut an aircraft is so that decision maker can get promoted.
It’s not a PCSO /Special rant at all. Both have there place in a modern police force. The point is that forces are just trying to save money and after spending 4.5 mill getting the best kit on a great aircraft why then play the penny pinching game.
Let’s face it would you put a low hour CPL(H) into a police role machine because it’s cheaper. So why go down the line of putting civilians in the aircraft to save money. Then to fill the hole of them not being police officers make them specials or PCSO’s ( not that there are police officers at all).
But infact when you look at shift allowance, weekend working, travelling expenses, night allowance and the fact that they can say no and not turn up for work. There are not actually cheaper at all.
There are some very willing and able officers who go onto being police constables, there are also some very poor police constables who should not be in the job. But when forces talk so much about best value why put the wrong people in the wrong job just to save money. It makes no sense at all. Lets face it the bean counters in this industry have absolutely no idea what happens at the pointy end and I know they don’t care. They would much rather save a pound today and pay a million out next year in litigation. (comments made which can be proved)
Going back onto the topic of this thread the only reason a police force is deciding to cut an aircraft is so that decision maker can get promoted.
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Going back onto the topic of this thread the only reason a police force is deciding to cut an aircraft is so that decision maker can get promoted.
Might just get an MP excited enough to do something..
MS