How to fly with Death?
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How to fly with Death?
I have one serious question especially for those who have lost (by unnatural death) someone close and is still flying.. Of course others can participate too. Unnatural death I mean an accident, suicide etc. Natural death is something you can anticipate and prepare to.
Do you find hard to be a pilot when you know the pain the relatives etc go through if something happens to you? If not, why? If yes, who do you handle the thought that you might do a simple mistake or have technical failure that can be your last...
For myself, I'm not afraid of being in the accident. I'm a lot more worried about the pain my close ones would have to go through. I have been there so I know how it feels and don't want to my worst enemy to go through that.
If you are not willing to post to this thread, you can always put me a private message.
Thanks in advance!
PS. I know that you can get killed in every day life so you don't have to remind me that.
Do you find hard to be a pilot when you know the pain the relatives etc go through if something happens to you? If not, why? If yes, who do you handle the thought that you might do a simple mistake or have technical failure that can be your last...
For myself, I'm not afraid of being in the accident. I'm a lot more worried about the pain my close ones would have to go through. I have been there so I know how it feels and don't want to my worst enemy to go through that.
If you are not willing to post to this thread, you can always put me a private message.
Thanks in advance!
PS. I know that you can get killed in every day life so you don't have to remind me that.
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PS. I know that you can get killed in every day life so you don't have to remind me that.
Hovering AND talking
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Black humour is one way
Losing someone close through illness or accident is hard and yes,
perhaps you do need to be reminded of that because I think that is the whole point.
If my father had died suddenly in an accident, he would have been spared a long, painful and terminal illness - which is better? For him? And my family? Death is never something for which you can prepare whether by "old age" or illness. Suicide has its own guilts.
Any family will go through "what ifs", when someone close dies, irrespective of the manner of their death; that's only natural. If you take away risks such as flying and driving and horse riding and riding a motorcycle or hill climbing ...... what are you left with? Knitting?
As for pilots (and anyone else who is in a perceived "risky" occupation), you'll find a lot of black humour!
Cheers
Whirls
PS. I know that you can get killed in every day life so you don't have to remind me that.
If my father had died suddenly in an accident, he would have been spared a long, painful and terminal illness - which is better? For him? And my family? Death is never something for which you can prepare whether by "old age" or illness. Suicide has its own guilts.
Any family will go through "what ifs", when someone close dies, irrespective of the manner of their death; that's only natural. If you take away risks such as flying and driving and horse riding and riding a motorcycle or hill climbing ...... what are you left with? Knitting?
As for pilots (and anyone else who is in a perceived "risky" occupation), you'll find a lot of black humour!
Cheers
Whirls
Just my thoughts
Just some thought for your question, these rules work for me and have helped my so far, always willing to learn from others thoughts.
Visit this site and among all the names there are 9 of my friends lost in Iraq and 7 others lost over the years I have been in aviation (1980). Also,6 Air Force friends and 34 others from my base lost in KC-135 accident not listed on this site.
http://armyaircrews.com/
For 2 the feeling after finding out they were killed was "I knew that would happen" and the only thing that got me by was I had brought up to them my concern about their "aggressive" flying. In one case I knew after the fact it was not enough to change their invincibility, it cost him his passengers lives (wife and copilots wife).
The others were weather related, mechanical and pilot error, and enemy fire.
Seeing the greiving families and friends, legal issues afterwards and some rules for me:
1. Do what is right even when no one is around. Lesson learned in 1982.
2. Your only as good as your last flight.
3. Tell the ones you care about how you feel towards them, never leave mad/angry. It may be the last thing they remember. Lesson learned from greiving teenager.
4. Make sure your will/personal stuff is in order, its not for you but does make things smoother for them.
5. Always preflight: free insurance plan. Lessons taught by friends mistakes.
6. If it bothers you that much get out of aviation. You mind needs to be in the cockpit not what-ifing. There was an EMS fixed wing accident last year, not my program but 2 staff members quit after hearing about it. Wait for the final report, Monday quarter-backing does not answer the WHY questions.
7. Improve your position: do things that will eliminate the "I wish I had done that" before flying. Am I ahead of the aircraft.
8 Rule of 3 or gut feeling, listen to my gut about the situtation and the Rule of 3, 3 things going bad not necessarliy related is not a good thing rethink what your doing.
9. My skills and the aircraft capibilities may never match in a given situtation. Avoid exceeding either/both.
10. No one is shooting at me so I do not have to fly, there is someone waiting at home for me. Make the right decision about the flight, never say I will go take a look and launch.
10. (Motivational) Dont become a thread on JustHelicopters .
Not sure if this answers your question?
Visit this site and among all the names there are 9 of my friends lost in Iraq and 7 others lost over the years I have been in aviation (1980). Also,6 Air Force friends and 34 others from my base lost in KC-135 accident not listed on this site.
http://armyaircrews.com/
For 2 the feeling after finding out they were killed was "I knew that would happen" and the only thing that got me by was I had brought up to them my concern about their "aggressive" flying. In one case I knew after the fact it was not enough to change their invincibility, it cost him his passengers lives (wife and copilots wife).
The others were weather related, mechanical and pilot error, and enemy fire.
Seeing the greiving families and friends, legal issues afterwards and some rules for me:
1. Do what is right even when no one is around. Lesson learned in 1982.
2. Your only as good as your last flight.
3. Tell the ones you care about how you feel towards them, never leave mad/angry. It may be the last thing they remember. Lesson learned from greiving teenager.
4. Make sure your will/personal stuff is in order, its not for you but does make things smoother for them.
5. Always preflight: free insurance plan. Lessons taught by friends mistakes.
6. If it bothers you that much get out of aviation. You mind needs to be in the cockpit not what-ifing. There was an EMS fixed wing accident last year, not my program but 2 staff members quit after hearing about it. Wait for the final report, Monday quarter-backing does not answer the WHY questions.
7. Improve your position: do things that will eliminate the "I wish I had done that" before flying. Am I ahead of the aircraft.
8 Rule of 3 or gut feeling, listen to my gut about the situtation and the Rule of 3, 3 things going bad not necessarliy related is not a good thing rethink what your doing.
9. My skills and the aircraft capibilities may never match in a given situtation. Avoid exceeding either/both.
10. No one is shooting at me so I do not have to fly, there is someone waiting at home for me. Make the right decision about the flight, never say I will go take a look and launch.
10. (Motivational) Dont become a thread on JustHelicopters .
Not sure if this answers your question?
Gatvol
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Pretty intense topic for a group of Aviators. For those of us who have been flying for many years in things other than the big comfortable flying machines, we have probably known many who have perished. As one with 38 years in Helicopters, I have had many friends go away before their time, probably a few more before I quit, if I am that lucky..
I think we all should realize that we all are dying as these posts hit cyberspace. Its just a matter of Where, When and How. (sounds like a Law Firm)
Some will find out they are terminal others wont know what hit them. Either way I guess the best one can do is try and prepare the family as best is possible if you are the bread winner, if not, it really does not matter.
I look at things and think OK, if I have 10 years, Im happy, now that is probably scary to some here, but Im not a youngster. Seems funny that the older we get the easier things like this are to face. I mean folks send junk mail offering many ways to dispose of your body. Many want you to donate parts ( So that they can make a fortune). Is the Brain dead yet??
Interesting topic for sure.
I think we all should realize that we all are dying as these posts hit cyberspace. Its just a matter of Where, When and How. (sounds like a Law Firm)
Some will find out they are terminal others wont know what hit them. Either way I guess the best one can do is try and prepare the family as best is possible if you are the bread winner, if not, it really does not matter.
I look at things and think OK, if I have 10 years, Im happy, now that is probably scary to some here, but Im not a youngster. Seems funny that the older we get the easier things like this are to face. I mean folks send junk mail offering many ways to dispose of your body. Many want you to donate parts ( So that they can make a fortune). Is the Brain dead yet??
Interesting topic for sure.
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some interesting stuff here, and maybe since you asked the question to begin with you might outlast someone who is too arrogant to even consider it. keep the shiney side up!
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I never worry about something that may never happen, to do so would severely detract from the here and now and under certain circumstances, instigate a hastening of fate.
Best Wishes
Best Wishes
Hovering AND talking
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I never worry about something that may never happen,
Cheers
Whirls
Avoid imitations
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Yes, there's only two certainties in life and death is one of them (nurses being the other, apparently).
I lost no small number of aircrew friends and colleagues to flying accidents, about eighteen of them at the last count. Three of them as I joined my first squadron almost thirty years ago, due to an accident in Rhodesia. Actually, better make that nineteen. I helped train the Wing Commander shot down in Iraq whilst on a familiarisation flight a while back. Another of them was my best pal, another military aviator doing the same job as me. His wife was a close friend of my wife, still is 16 years on.
I believe that one of the most dangerous things in aviation is an attitude of "it can't happen to me".
However, reasoned caution is the way to go and don't ever be afraid to say "Sorry, can't be done, at least not in this weather or until it's light" if required. Don't get backed into a corner where the only option is to complete the flight.
I lost no small number of aircrew friends and colleagues to flying accidents, about eighteen of them at the last count. Three of them as I joined my first squadron almost thirty years ago, due to an accident in Rhodesia. Actually, better make that nineteen. I helped train the Wing Commander shot down in Iraq whilst on a familiarisation flight a while back. Another of them was my best pal, another military aviator doing the same job as me. His wife was a close friend of my wife, still is 16 years on.
I believe that one of the most dangerous things in aviation is an attitude of "it can't happen to me".
However, reasoned caution is the way to go and don't ever be afraid to say "Sorry, can't be done, at least not in this weather or until it's light" if required. Don't get backed into a corner where the only option is to complete the flight.
Combine Operations
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I think Havoc's Rule No. 3 it the one, especially the
bit.
So many times I've heard people say the last thing they said to a loved one was said in anger, and now they'll never be able to say Sorry. How many times was this said, and is still being said, in the aftermath of 11 September 2001?
never leave mad/angry
So many times I've heard people say the last thing they said to a loved one was said in anger, and now they'll never be able to say Sorry. How many times was this said, and is still being said, in the aftermath of 11 September 2001?
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Whirlygig:
Why on earth did you bother to utter the above? The OP clearly asked a question, to which I have provided an answer from my perspective, as requested. My death may never occur as a consequence of flight. Due to my age and experience I have a high expectation that I shall be proven correct. I doubt you can match my pedigree and therefore could not expect to offer a similar view.
FWIW - I never think off or consider family or friends - past or present - when airborne. Ever.
I think I shall place you in my 'special file to join your familiar. Please do the same to me. Thank you.
Best Wishes
I don't know how to break this to you Agincourt but .... you're not immortal. Like taxes, it will happen! Sorry!
Do you find hard to be a pilot when you know the pain the relatives etc go through if something happens to you? If not, why? If yes, who do you handle the thought that you might do a simple mistake or have technical failure that can be your last...
I think I shall place you in my 'special file to join your familiar. Please do the same to me. Thank you.
Best Wishes
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Thanks for the answers! It's all been helpful. 
I hope this thread helps other people too, not just me.
Death is something that you can't understand until it you lose someone close. It stops you and makes you think about things in different perspective. At least that happened to me. But sun is shining and I keep smiling. Life goes on.
I hope this thread helps other people too, not just me.Death is something that you can't understand until it you lose someone close. It stops you and makes you think about things in different perspective. At least that happened to me. But sun is shining and I keep smiling. Life goes on.
I believe that one of the most dangerous things in aviation is an attitude of "it can't happen to me".
Every trip for the last 28 years I've always expected 'it could happen to me'! (when I was in the military, I thought that was what the flying pay was for! Danger money!)
I work hard to be a safe pilot but there are always possible factors over which I could have no control. (eg head or blade failure)
It's always a little thought as I kiss my wife goodbye each morning!
death
....it doesnt frighten me!
In fact I really enjoy the feeling of getting paid just above the average for doing something relatively simple that is great fun (but potentially dangerous) rather than having to work for a living!
I couldn't imagine earning a living any other way!
But then I'm quite lazy!
In fact I really enjoy the feeling of getting paid just above the average for doing something relatively simple that is great fun (but potentially dangerous) rather than having to work for a living!
I couldn't imagine earning a living any other way!
But then I'm quite lazy!
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enjoying
there are millions of things that you will find as you go through life that are potentially dangerous, but i guess thats life,we cannot live in a cocoon!
smile and enjoy life and the exiting things that life ehas to offer.
Royston
smile and enjoy life and the exiting things that life ehas to offer.
Royston
Having spent most my life either flying or in other risky pursuits and knowing more than a few colleagues who crossed the bar in working attire vice pajamas, I can understand one's concerns about standing on the trap door waiting for the sudden drop.
If one is worried about what others will think upon that happening then perhaps one ought to be more concerned about how people think of him now rather than when one is lying in repose with pennies on his eyelids and folks are looking down his nostrils.
Most folks say nice things about the dead and sometimes they mean what they say.....the key would be to have the same accolades whilst still a member of the herd.
We should fly every flight like it was our last.....because someday it shall be.
If one is worried about what others will think upon that happening then perhaps one ought to be more concerned about how people think of him now rather than when one is lying in repose with pennies on his eyelids and folks are looking down his nostrils.
Most folks say nice things about the dead and sometimes they mean what they say.....the key would be to have the same accolades whilst still a member of the herd.
We should fly every flight like it was our last.....because someday it shall be.