How to fly with Death?
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Agincourt:
Just playing a little devil's advocate here but I really don't think that Whirlygig was suggesting that you would die as a consequence of flight, just that you would die. Eventually.
I must say though, with comments like this:
Due to my age and experience I have a high expectation that I shall be proven correct. I doubt you can match my pedigree and therefore could not expect to offer a similar view.
....it's a good job that arrogance isn't terminal. You wouldn't have long at all!
Just playing a little devil's advocate here but I really don't think that Whirlygig was suggesting that you would die as a consequence of flight, just that you would die. Eventually.
I must say though, with comments like this:
Due to my age and experience I have a high expectation that I shall be proven correct. I doubt you can match my pedigree and therefore could not expect to offer a similar view.
....it's a good job that arrogance isn't terminal. You wouldn't have long at all!
My wife says nice things about me when I buy her presents!
She also flew in a helicopter for the first time a few weeks ago. It was an elderly BO105. As she walked up to the fine old machine she exclaimed.....
"Bloody hell..... it's like a crate with levers!"
She now says I should increase my life insurance!
She also flew in a helicopter for the first time a few weeks ago. It was an elderly BO105. As she walked up to the fine old machine she exclaimed.....
"Bloody hell..... it's like a crate with levers!"
She now says I should increase my life insurance!
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I keep coming back to this string (and it seems, so do a lot of people). It strikes me that most of the posts here discuss externals (such as procedures) or are flip comments, while Antti is really asking us to discuss some heavy stuff. I can identify with his question – my husband went down nine years ago and I really struggled with flying for a while after that. For me, it came down to trust – did I trust the procedures I had been trained, did I trust myself to follow the procedures and (having eaten from the tree of knowledge) did I trust myself and others to forgive me if things went wrong?
Thoughts anyone?
Thoughts anyone?
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I believe that evrey life has a destiny, by which I mean your task may be to go from London to Glasgow, with your choice of route, thus allowing for a limited amount of free will (you can't have too much, otherwise you could screw up a lot of other lives). I also believe that every life has five or six exit points that you can take if you so wish.
The upshot is that Death is not something I worry about too much. I would simply be annoyed that I hadn't finished all the books I want to write!
All the people close to me know my views and I know that they will not be grieving, as I will be waiting for them - one of my requirements at the funeral is a New Orleans jazz band.
Phil
The upshot is that Death is not something I worry about too much. I would simply be annoyed that I hadn't finished all the books I want to write!
All the people close to me know my views and I know that they will not be grieving, as I will be waiting for them - one of my requirements at the funeral is a New Orleans jazz band.
Phil
The Original Whirly
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I lost two friends when I was a student, many years ago - one in a rock climbing accident, another in a freak incident involving a gas leak.
Two relatives died at a young age of different types of cancer.
When I was on holiday, a chap dived into a lake and hit the bottom - he was lucky, he survived with nothing but very bad bruising.
On a proposed camel trek (it was abandoned due to poor organisation) two people fell off and were seriously injured.
Several friends have been injured in car accidents.
And yes, I do have two acquaintances who were killed in an aircraft accident too.
And I know several people who've died in their beds of natural causes.
One thing is certain - life is invariably fatal...eventually!!!! What's so special about flying? I ride horses too, and that's much more dangerous; ask any insurance company. But no-one seems to get upset about that, only the helicopter flying.
So no, I don't worry. But since I know I'm not immortal, I try to keep my will up to date and make provision for my nearest and dearest. Just like everyone else.
Two relatives died at a young age of different types of cancer.
When I was on holiday, a chap dived into a lake and hit the bottom - he was lucky, he survived with nothing but very bad bruising.
On a proposed camel trek (it was abandoned due to poor organisation) two people fell off and were seriously injured.
Several friends have been injured in car accidents.
And yes, I do have two acquaintances who were killed in an aircraft accident too.
And I know several people who've died in their beds of natural causes.
One thing is certain - life is invariably fatal...eventually!!!! What's so special about flying? I ride horses too, and that's much more dangerous; ask any insurance company. But no-one seems to get upset about that, only the helicopter flying.
So no, I don't worry. But since I know I'm not immortal, I try to keep my will up to date and make provision for my nearest and dearest. Just like everyone else.
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Bernouli:
I am aware that that is the case and which is why I commented as such.
I see nothing arrogant in stating the truth. I have been airborne for a long time and have but a few years to go before retirement. Having escaped serious incidents over the many years without injury, I have faith that my luck and judgement will hold out a little longer. But hey ho...........you never know.
Thank you for the input though.
Best Wishes
Agincourt:
Just playing a little devil's advocate here but I really don't think that Whirlygig was suggesting that you would die as a consequence of flight, just that you would die. Eventually.
Just playing a little devil's advocate here but I really don't think that Whirlygig was suggesting that you would die as a consequence of flight, just that you would die. Eventually.
I must say though, with comments like this:
Due to my age and experience I have a high expectation that I shall be proven correct. I doubt you can match my pedigree and therefore could not expect to offer a similar view.
....it's a good job that arrogance isn't terminal. You wouldn't have long at all!
Due to my age and experience I have a high expectation that I shall be proven correct. I doubt you can match my pedigree and therefore could not expect to offer a similar view.
....it's a good job that arrogance isn't terminal. You wouldn't have long at all!
Thank you for the input though.
Best Wishes
Thread Starter
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I think the reason why I started this thread was that I'm too afraid of doing any mistakes and in aviation it can be fatal. Which leads to the pain I would cause to my close ones. I don't know what makes it so big thing because the result can be pretty much the same if you are crossing a street lost in your thoughts without checking is there any cars coming.
Maybe going flying thinking about this might be my last flight is too much to handle for me or I just take it too seriously (can you be too serious?) and be afraid of making mistakes. Maybe I can get over this and continue flying. At the moment I don't want to do it which fine. I'm not forcing myself into anything and I'm hoping that other pilots who have similar kind of thoughts would think twice or more are they able to fly. Maybe you are not worried about dying while flying, but what about your passengers? Are you able to take their lives on your hands?
For those who think that they can't have a fatal accident while flying... Never say never. Unfortunately, there are fatal accidents that are caused by a technical failure where the pilot can only make a mayday mayday -call and hope for the best.
Fly safe and keep up the conversation!
Maybe going flying thinking about this might be my last flight is too much to handle for me or I just take it too seriously (can you be too serious?) and be afraid of making mistakes. Maybe I can get over this and continue flying. At the moment I don't want to do it which fine. I'm not forcing myself into anything and I'm hoping that other pilots who have similar kind of thoughts would think twice or more are they able to fly. Maybe you are not worried about dying while flying, but what about your passengers? Are you able to take their lives on your hands?
For those who think that they can't have a fatal accident while flying... Never say never. Unfortunately, there are fatal accidents that are caused by a technical failure where the pilot can only make a mayday mayday -call and hope for the best.
Fly safe and keep up the conversation!
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How old are you??
Is it middle life crisis that made you ask this
Only joking!
We all do something so not....human, against our nature....ridding the wind!
Leonardo(not DeCaprio) would have been very proud seeing his idea in practice!It's one of the reasons that makes us think of death more often that others.
I dont think it is more dangerous from anything else.... when you play by the rules. The list earlier on in the thread sum's everything nicely. I could only add, do everything in moderation, meaning have a good balance in your life. Be as good as you can in your job,relationship,friendships. Be happy with what you have today and enjoy the journey. Only then you will leave good/happy memories should you leave first.
...we are getting very philoshopical in this forum....
Be good
Only joking! We all do something so not....human, against our nature....ridding the wind!
Leonardo(not DeCaprio) would have been very proud seeing his idea in practice!It's one of the reasons that makes us think of death more often that others.
I dont think it is more dangerous from anything else.... when you play by the rules. The list earlier on in the thread sum's everything nicely. I could only add, do everything in moderation, meaning have a good balance in your life. Be as good as you can in your job,relationship,friendships. Be happy with what you have today and enjoy the journey. Only then you will leave good/happy memories should you leave first.
...we are getting very philoshopical in this forum....
Be good
Antti, having just re-read your last post I would suggest if you are really that concerned then perhaps flying is not for you.. you cannot dwell on the what-ifs to the extent that you are not able to do your job.
Some 38 years have past since a Vietnam Veteran helicopter instructor explained to his spanking new student aviator, that two inalienable facts should be embraced in order to fly helicopters:
1. You must believe that your number will never come up.
2. You must believe that you will never ride with some poor sole
whose number will come up.
My wife reminds me daily, to smile, because life is to too short and nobody gets out alive in the end. Helicopters have been good to this sole. Their have been good times and heart aches. But when all accounting is complete, it has been and continues to be a GREAT RIDE!
1. You must believe that your number will never come up.
2. You must believe that you will never ride with some poor sole
whose number will come up.
My wife reminds me daily, to smile, because life is to too short and nobody gets out alive in the end. Helicopters have been good to this sole. Their have been good times and heart aches. But when all accounting is complete, it has been and continues to be a GREAT RIDE!
Avoid imitations
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Yes, we must keep our sense of humour.
I was once flying with a large box of fish in the baggage bay.
ATC asked how many soles were on board. I had to lie because I hadn't thought to lift the lid and have a look before take off.
But I knew there was an old trout sitting behind me in the cabin.
I was once flying with a large box of fish in the baggage bay.
ATC asked how many soles were on board. I had to lie because I hadn't thought to lift the lid and have a look before take off.
But I knew there was an old trout sitting behind me in the cabin.
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There's no point in worrying about it as it will either happen or not. Some die young, some die old, some in their beds asleep and some in their cockpits screaming I think (though I may be wrong) that my chances of shuffling off this mortal coil in a car accident are more than dying in a flying accident, but that doesn't stop me from driving anywhere. Everything is more dangerous than staying at home, but many deaths every year occur in the home, so maybe I should move to a tent in the park 
. Many of my friends over the years have died in aviation accidents and when I was a young student I remember a nasty accident with a Whirlwind, where the pilot was thrown out of the cockpit and found dead in a bog where he'd landed head down. After that I painted DIG and HERE on the soles of my flying boots, lest the same fate should befall me 
. Nowadays, more of my friends are dying of disease and old age, as reflected by my moving closer to my sell-by date. Life is an invariably terminal disease but as none of us has any idea of when our how our own termination will come it's just depressing to dwell on it (and might just make you end it all so you can fulfil your own prediction of the precise date and time!).
Happy flying
. Many of my friends over the years have died in aviation accidents and when I was a young student I remember a nasty accident with a Whirlwind, where the pilot was thrown out of the cockpit and found dead in a bog where he'd landed head down. After that I painted DIG and HERE on the soles of my flying boots, lest the same fate should befall me . Nowadays, more of my friends are dying of disease and old age, as reflected by my moving closer to my sell-by date. Life is an invariably terminal disease but as none of us has any idea of when our how our own termination will come it's just depressing to dwell on it (and might just make you end it all so you can fulfil your own prediction of the precise date and time!). Happy flying
"Just a pilot"
I guess I look at this from a different aspect. I'm a Vietnam vet. One of the accommodations some make in combat goes beyond accepting mortality- I realized that not only could I be killed in spite of skill and every precaution, there were going to be situations where survival was all luck. I saw a guy take one hit and one hit only, on his first day as a Cobra pilot in country- right between the eyes. I've looked down an elevated highway to see an oncoming truck's driver losing the battle to regain control as he he crossed and re-crossed my lane in an effort to keep from hitting me or going off the edge, into the trees- all luck.
Death doesn't have to be that dramatic: I aspirated an aspirin- or I guess I should say I partially aspirated an aspirin, once. Anyhow, there was a second or two where I couldn't breathe, I was alone and miles from anywhere and I remember thinking "That was stupid!"
I believe in taking every practical precaution. I try not to go where a supply of luck could run out- I don't take unnecessary chances.
I've buried friends, a father in law, father, a daughter, and a grand-daughter. There's no way to prepare for the grief, even long anticipated loss. It's a very real and intense physical and emotional syndrome. I believe that making one's own preparations is the only honest and loving way.
Like the man says, live every day as though it was going to be your last. Someday you'll be right. Every day I wake up is a gift.
Death doesn't have to be that dramatic: I aspirated an aspirin- or I guess I should say I partially aspirated an aspirin, once. Anyhow, there was a second or two where I couldn't breathe, I was alone and miles from anywhere and I remember thinking "That was stupid!"
I believe in taking every practical precaution. I try not to go where a supply of luck could run out- I don't take unnecessary chances.
I've buried friends, a father in law, father, a daughter, and a grand-daughter. There's no way to prepare for the grief, even long anticipated loss. It's a very real and intense physical and emotional syndrome. I believe that making one's own preparations is the only honest and loving way.
Like the man says, live every day as though it was going to be your last. Someday you'll be right. Every day I wake up is a gift.
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flying with death
why don't you guys dwell on living? you would be a lot more relaxed and maybe even start enjoying life,instead of waiting for your time to come, it'll come one day thats for sure,so i say again stop worrying and stop trying to justify your worrying.
metalman
metalman
Avoid imitations
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You're right. Next time I go flying I'm not going to check NOTAMS, weather OR even do a walkround.
There. Why worry?
There. Why worry?
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Simple answer: If you knew the person who died in an accident and they were obviously close enough for you to ask this question because your heart was uneasy about flying, ask yourself this, would that person who died want you to stop flying just because something happened to them?
Odds are, it was a pilot error on their part, I don't think they want you to quit flying because they made a mistake.
However, I do believe when you hit that golden age of 60, just go in to the Transportation office and hand in your license. It's the age to stop and retire a passion, if not, atleast fly with someone else who is capable of landing an aircraft too.
Odds are, it was a pilot error on their part, I don't think they want you to quit flying because they made a mistake.
However, I do believe when you hit that golden age of 60, just go in to the Transportation office and hand in your license. It's the age to stop and retire a passion, if not, atleast fly with someone else who is capable of landing an aircraft too.
Originally Posted by soggyboxers
There's no point in worrying about it as it will either happen or not. Some die young, some die old, some in their beds asleep and some in their cockpits screaming I think (though I may be wrong) that my chances of shuffling off this mortal coil in a car accident are more than dying in a flying accident, but that doesn't stop me from driving anywhere.
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How to fly with death ?
D, D Man, Death or Mr Death depending on how close you are and much respect you have for him, should be kept at a distance but closer than your friends when flying I suppose.
Bear him in mind that he may be on the next flight with you but then again so are the angels that always keep an eye out for you on every flight.
Do the best you can the safest way you can & dont give him room for a seat LOL
If its on your mind all the time, maybe you shouldnt fly at all.
Like many here I too have lost close ones by way of aviation mishaps.
IT happens, thats life.
I joined the ranks when I was 14 when my Dad (helo's) made his last flight.
He showed me what flying is & what it means to follow your dreams and how you are the only one that can deny you from living your dreams.
Follow your dreams, dont let fear hold you back, use your judgement & listen to your heart & above all .. safety first.
He loved what he did & went doing something he loved, cant ask for a better way to go.
He would not be mad at me for flying helo's, but he would be madder than a cut snake for being afraid of ending up like him, not living my dreams and giving it my best shot.
I dont have a death wish, I have a life wish... thats why I fly.
I keep it some where, under control and in its place.
HF
Bear him in mind that he may be on the next flight with you but then again so are the angels that always keep an eye out for you on every flight.
Do the best you can the safest way you can & dont give him room for a seat LOL
If its on your mind all the time, maybe you shouldnt fly at all.
Like many here I too have lost close ones by way of aviation mishaps.
IT happens, thats life.
I joined the ranks when I was 14 when my Dad (helo's) made his last flight.
He showed me what flying is & what it means to follow your dreams and how you are the only one that can deny you from living your dreams.
Follow your dreams, dont let fear hold you back, use your judgement & listen to your heart & above all .. safety first.
He loved what he did & went doing something he loved, cant ask for a better way to go.
He would not be mad at me for flying helo's, but he would be madder than a cut snake for being afraid of ending up like him, not living my dreams and giving it my best shot.
I dont have a death wish, I have a life wish... thats why I fly.
I keep it some where, under control and in its place.
HF
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Apparently, you are statistically more likely to be struck by lightning and killed playing golf than in an aircraft accident (although saying that, I don't know of anyone who's kicked the bucket on the fairway, yet too many who've gone to the crewroom in the sky. Who makes up these statistics?) I reckon if the Grim Reaper had ever watched me play, he'd have put me out of my misery long ago!
I don't think about it unless it happens to someone I knew and even then it doesn't cross my mind to give up flying. If we gave up everything that was dangerous, there would be nothing to read about in the papers or watch on telly! I fly because I love it and it makes me happy. If I die happy, doing something I love 20 years before my time, is that not better than dying dribbling and reeking of wee in a care home?
Don't think about it, maintain a sense of humour (you'll need it), and always stay within your limits. Life really is too short to worry about how it's going to end!
Now, can we get back to some petty bickering? Someone start an argument!
I don't think about it unless it happens to someone I knew and even then it doesn't cross my mind to give up flying. If we gave up everything that was dangerous, there would be nothing to read about in the papers or watch on telly! I fly because I love it and it makes me happy. If I die happy, doing something I love 20 years before my time, is that not better than dying dribbling and reeking of wee in a care home?
Don't think about it, maintain a sense of humour (you'll need it), and always stay within your limits. Life really is too short to worry about how it's going to end!
Now, can we get back to some petty bickering? Someone start an argument!
Well, I hope I go peacefully in my sleep (unlike the screaming passengers in the back 
)
)