UK SAR Harmonisation
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From: UK
Cojoe hopping into the back..only in extraordinary circumstances. BTDT. Albeit very unlikely, will be discussed amongst the crew no doubt and can be carried out in the UK SAR 139. Not agreeing with Crab BTW
. Don’t need to clutch at straws.
. Don’t need to clutch at straws.
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
Wiretensioner - I think they started with the transition team but I was given to understand that 3 ex-RAF winchmen (one a QHCI) are being put into trainers/standards jobs for CHC in UK because of their paramedic skills.
As for pilots, there is one who started on transition and is now in management (I believe), one who is a line pilot on S92 and a third who is a TRE on S92.
Maybe they have kept their ancestry a secret to avoid being tainted by association with me
As for pilots, there is one who started on transition and is now in management (I believe), one who is a line pilot on S92 and a third who is a TRE on S92.
Maybe they have kept their ancestry a secret to avoid being tainted by association with me
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
From: England
It's good to see Pprune becoming a self-feeding organism. Lost at Sea posts something contentious, is asked to provide substantiating evidence and proceeds to quote (surprise, surprise totally inaccurate) Pprune posts.
Marvellous, we don't need the outside world!
Marvellous, we don't need the outside world!
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
From: All Over
Lost at Sea posts something contentious, is asked to provide substantiating evidence and proceeds to quote (surprise, surprise totally inaccurate) Pprune posts.
And as Crab himself said (standby for another totally inaccurate post)....
I have a great deal more knowledge of the SARH procedure than you give me credit for
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
Oh dear Lost at Sea - if your only defence is that my posts (which you selectively quoted and distorted) are poor then you really are lost at sea
Your logic would impress a 4 year old - possibly - but knowing a bit about a subject does not make one a self-confessed authority on it - never mind, the other kids in the playground will be awestruck at your intellectual prowess
Your logic would impress a 4 year old - possibly - but knowing a bit about a subject does not make one a self-confessed authority on it - never mind, the other kids in the playground will be awestruck at your intellectual prowess
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
From: All Over
Okay just to further infuriate Clever Richard…. I shall now answer Crab’s points by quoting ……. You guessed it, Crab!
Crab said
The RAF did assist with the interim contract but only on a consultancy basis
Crab’s reply
“due to the amount of involvement the RAF had in the process” and
“thanks to the involvement of the MoD the service provided will be superior”
Crab said
Surely not - the super-duper all singing and dancing SAR helicopter with less capability than the old one
Crab's reply
The CHC operation seems better than the Bristow's one (as I said), new aircraft being a significant part of that.
Crab said
I seem to remember that the S 92 was supposed to bring much vaunted extra capability to UK SAR
As I understand it, the MCA were offered the satphone option and jumped at it since it was new and, in theory, improved technology. However, the compatability with what presently exists at the ARRCK was either assumed or ignored.
Crabs reply
the MoD were asked for guidance and expertise in examining the interim contract.
And finally Crab says….
my posts are poor
(OK that one was distorted!!!)
Actually I’m beginning to completely ignore other peoples opinions and seem to be gaining an unhealthy disrespect for all civilians it might be time to stop reading Crabs postings….. Long live the RAF!!! Definitely time to go.
Crab said
The RAF did assist with the interim contract but only on a consultancy basis
Crab’s reply
“due to the amount of involvement the RAF had in the process” and
“thanks to the involvement of the MoD the service provided will be superior”
Crab said
Surely not - the super-duper all singing and dancing SAR helicopter with less capability than the old one
Crab's reply
The CHC operation seems better than the Bristow's one (as I said), new aircraft being a significant part of that.
Crab said
I seem to remember that the S 92 was supposed to bring much vaunted extra capability to UK SAR
As I understand it, the MCA were offered the satphone option and jumped at it since it was new and, in theory, improved technology. However, the compatability with what presently exists at the ARRCK was either assumed or ignored.
Crabs reply
the MoD were asked for guidance and expertise in examining the interim contract.
And finally Crab says….
my posts are poor
(OK that one was distorted!!!)
Actually I’m beginning to completely ignore other peoples opinions and seem to be gaining an unhealthy disrespect for all civilians it might be time to stop reading Crabs postings….. Long live the RAF!!! Definitely time to go.
Last edited by Lost at Sea; 26th March 2008 at 19:39.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: Truro
History, just to make Crab smile, and point out I'm not totally averse to Crustacea: This humble numb nuts was trained to winch by a Crab, a man I have the greatest respect for.
The initial civvy offshore SAR contract with Bell 212s fitted with FLIR etc was established by a Crab, yet another man whose company I enjoy. The bid for the Sumburgh and Stornoway operations was therefore a relatively simple equipment conversion to the S61; try telling that to the engineers. The background co-ordination preparatory work was immense.
As we are quoting ancient posts, may I quote from one of mine?
"Crab, stay in a blue suit, make lots of nasty civvy helicopter drivers and winch ops happy."
Finally.
Yomp Bootneck
Sail Navy
Eat Crab
The initial civvy offshore SAR contract with Bell 212s fitted with FLIR etc was established by a Crab, yet another man whose company I enjoy. The bid for the Sumburgh and Stornoway operations was therefore a relatively simple equipment conversion to the S61; try telling that to the engineers. The background co-ordination preparatory work was immense.
As we are quoting ancient posts, may I quote from one of mine?
"Crab, stay in a blue suit, make lots of nasty civvy helicopter drivers and winch ops happy."
Finally.
Yomp Bootneck
Sail Navy
Eat Crab
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 470
Likes: 6
From: Retired to Bisley from the small African nation
Co-pilots helping out
Hi all
I understand that if you watch channel 5 in about 11 minutes time you will get a specific example.
I may be wrong on the scheduling - I'm in South Africa on leave, but I'm told it's called "Britain's Bravest" and has had some RAF SAR wank3r on the teaser for the last week or so.
If he said anything out of order could someone please let me know so I can decide whether to come home or not.
Sven
I understand that if you watch channel 5 in about 11 minutes time you will get a specific example.
I may be wrong on the scheduling - I'm in South Africa on leave, but I'm told it's called "Britain's Bravest" and has had some RAF SAR wank3r on the teaser for the last week or so.
If he said anything out of order could someone please let me know so I can decide whether to come home or not.
Sven
Last edited by Sven Sixtoo; 26th March 2008 at 20:54. Reason: I'm entitled to be rude about me!
Chief Bottle Washer
Joined: Sep 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,257
Likes: 1,438
From: PPRuNe
Warning shot
I think we've had enough bashing the RAF, thanks. Some of these posts are as close to personal insults as I'm going to allow: play the ball, not the man.
No more
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
To misquote or paraphrase someone else - 'There are 2 types of people in the world - RAF and those that wish they were RAF'
Don't get too upset SP it's only banter - I think Lost at Sea already works for the Daily Mail
TTT - the co might be called to get out of his seat in many situations; sometimes to assist the rearcrew in manhandling a casualty into the aircraft (if on the ground) or to take out more medical kit if both rearcrew are treating casualties (again on the ground), in the air it would most likely be to assist in CPR (which is bloody tiring) or, in extremis, to act as winchman or winchop if one or other is injured or incapacitated in some way. My first job as a co involved me helping the rearcrew put a rigor mortised stiff into a body bag and carrying it to the aircraft!
Don't get too upset SP it's only banter - I think Lost at Sea already works for the Daily Mail
TTT - the co might be called to get out of his seat in many situations; sometimes to assist the rearcrew in manhandling a casualty into the aircraft (if on the ground) or to take out more medical kit if both rearcrew are treating casualties (again on the ground), in the air it would most likely be to assist in CPR (which is bloody tiring) or, in extremis, to act as winchman or winchop if one or other is injured or incapacitated in some way. My first job as a co involved me helping the rearcrew put a rigor mortised stiff into a body bag and carrying it to the aircraft!
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: Truro
:My first job as a co involved me helping the rearcrew put a rigor mortised stiff into a body bag and carrying it to the aircraft!
So, the Chief of the Airstaff visits SAR units.
:I don't believe this, it has to be a photoshop stunt.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...nbikini126.xml
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
From: Sunnyvale Rest Home for the Elderly
A real example
If i'm reading your posts correctly, you're stating that "occasionally" and/ or "exceptionally" the P2 has been sent into the back to lend a hand, so....
Is this an acceptable practice, an SOP etc?
Is it purely a military acceptance or is it common with civvie SAR too?
Under what stages of the flight is this likely to be done?
What kind of help is the P2 providing?
Is this an acceptable practice, an SOP etc?
Is it purely a military acceptance or is it common with civvie SAR too?
Under what stages of the flight is this likely to be done?
What kind of help is the P2 providing?
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,079
Likes: 5
From: Abu Dhabi
Royal Air Force wins Defence Helicopter SAR 2008 Award for Riverdance Ferry Rescue
Royal Air Force wins Defence Helicopter SAR 2008 Award for Riverdance Ferry Rescue
The Defence Helicopter SAR Award is an annual honour bestowed to a Search and Rescue helicopter crew that has performed an outstanding rescue over the 12 months between award dates.
In 2007, the Maryland State Police Aviation Command took the award for the rescue of workers unable to climb down from a 1,000 foot smokestack…that was on fire.
This year, the Royal Air Force’s (RAF) SAR helicopter crew Rescue 122 were presented with the SAR 2006 Award at the SAR conference and exhibition, which was held in Bournemouth, UK in March.
Rescue 122 merited the SAR Award through their actions on the night of 31 January, 2008, in rescuing the majority of the crew of the Ferry Riverdance that was powerless and in danger of capsizing in terrible weather of the UK’s western coast.
The following outline, prepared by the RAF, best explains the circumstances of that evening:
“On the 31 January 2008, Flt Lt Lee Turner (Operational Captain), Flt Lt Giles Ratcliffe (Co-pilot), Sgt John Stevens (Radar/Winch Operator) and MACR Rich Taylor (Paramedic Winchman) were the duty SAR helicopter crew (Rescue 122) based at C Flight, 22 Squadron RAF Valley. At 2016 hrs, Rescue 122 was called to the aid of 23 persons on board the Ferry Riverdance that had lost all power and was in severe difficulties 10 nautical miles north west of Blackpool. Weather conditions on scene were atrocious with low cloud, storm force winds (50 gusting to 70 knots) causing severe turbulence and a sea state of 7 with an associated 10 metre swell. Light levels on scene were also poor meaning that even with night vision goggles the crew were struggling to maintain a visual horizon and references.
Rescue 122 arrived on scene at 2035 hrs and found the Riverdance cross wind, side on to the sea swell and listing between 45 and 60 degrees to her port. The battering of the waves against the slab sided ferry and associated rolling and surfing in the swell meant that on occasion the port bridge wing was dipping into the water and she was at significant risk of capsizing. Riverdance’s Captain had moved all 23 persons on board into the relative safety of the bridge and was requesting the immediate rescue of non essential personnel. After a detailed reconnaissance, the crew decided that the safest option was to winch the passengers from the ferry’s starboard bridge wing and attempts began.
Unfortunately, the strength of the wind and poor visual references meant that this option was technically extremely demanding. Despite some outstanding flying by Flt Lt Turner and exceptional winch operating by Sgt Stevens their numerous attempts to deliver the winchman over the next 30 minutes were unsuccessful. An even riskier option then had to be considered which would involve winching the passengers from the port bridge wing on the low side of the vessel.
One of the ferry crew was tied on to a rope and lowered from the wheelhouse onto the steep deck. Through skilful flying, accurate winch operating and considerable courage from the winchman a rope high-line was eventually delivered to the crew. The listing and violent motion of the Riverdance meant that the crew member was unable to keep hold of the high-line and the crew of Rescue 122 then had to repeat the process, this time managing to deliver the winchman to the deck. Flt Lt Turner was then required to maintain an accurate hover close to the vessel for an extended period of time which required significant power changes and therefore immense concentration.
Conditions on deck were appalling and MACR Taylor had to make his way up and down the steep listing deck whilst being battered by waves to organise the evacuation of the passengers and crew. Throughout this whole process MACR Taylor was not secured to the aircraft and at considerable risk of falling from the ferry; worse still, he would have undoubtedly been killed had the ferry capsized. The crew then began the transfer of casualties and managed to lift a total of eight from the vessel including the recovery of MACR Taylor as a triple lift. During this process the challenging conditions snapped the high-line and yet again Flt Lt Turner and Sgt Stevens were required to re-establish contact with the vessel; this was an especially impressive piece of winch operating from Sgt Stevens as the winchman was on board the Riverdance and therefore unable to offer assistance with the high line. He also had to manage multiple casualties, who were gripped with fear and in shock, to ensure their safety once on board the aircraft whilst maintaining constant high line contact with the vessel. Also, throughout this whole sortie, the input and support offered by the co-pilot Flt Lt Ratcliffe should not be underestimated and without his efforts the rest of the crew would be unable to carry out their functions. He remained calm and collected whilst co-ordinating all aspects of the rescue and communicated with multiple agencies including the captain of Riverdance.
Rescue 122 then flew to Blackpool to drop the passengers, refuel and shut down to wait for further tasking. Shortly afterwards the ferry unexpectedly ran aground on a sandbank and Rescue 177, which had arrived on scene from Prestwick, lifted a further six crew. Left on board were nine essential crew who were going to attempt to re-float the stricken vessel.
At 0415, Rescue 122 was again scrambled to the Riverdance as the vessel was now stranded on a sandbank and with the vessels cargo moving freely on the deck was expected to capsize. Despite already coping with the previous ordeal, by using the same techniques the crew went through the process of safely recovering the remaining nine crewmen. Despite the fact that the vessel was a little more stable the crew yet again had to work extremely hard as the ferry was still rolling and surfing. At one stage, the sudden and unexpected motion of the ferry endangered the aircraft and it was the lighting quick reaction of Sgt Stevens who called an immediate climb that prevented a disaster. MACR Taylor stayed on Riverdance until the last lift when he along with the Captain abandoned the vessel to her fate. The remaining casualties were all dropped at Blackpool Airport safe and well and Rescue 122 returned to base to resume SAR Standby.”
As a footnote to this rescue it should not be forgotten that by 2012, under the SAR-H Programme, the RAF and Royal Navy (Rescue 177) will cease to be responsible for the provision of search and rescue helicopter services along the UK’s coastline. This will instead by provided by a commercial organisation, the winner of the current IPT competition. The eventual winners will have a legacy to maintain.
- Andrew Drwiega
The Defence Helicopter SAR Award is an annual honour bestowed to a Search and Rescue helicopter crew that has performed an outstanding rescue over the 12 months between award dates.
In 2007, the Maryland State Police Aviation Command took the award for the rescue of workers unable to climb down from a 1,000 foot smokestack…that was on fire.
This year, the Royal Air Force’s (RAF) SAR helicopter crew Rescue 122 were presented with the SAR 2006 Award at the SAR conference and exhibition, which was held in Bournemouth, UK in March.
Rescue 122 merited the SAR Award through their actions on the night of 31 January, 2008, in rescuing the majority of the crew of the Ferry Riverdance that was powerless and in danger of capsizing in terrible weather of the UK’s western coast.
The following outline, prepared by the RAF, best explains the circumstances of that evening:
“On the 31 January 2008, Flt Lt Lee Turner (Operational Captain), Flt Lt Giles Ratcliffe (Co-pilot), Sgt John Stevens (Radar/Winch Operator) and MACR Rich Taylor (Paramedic Winchman) were the duty SAR helicopter crew (Rescue 122) based at C Flight, 22 Squadron RAF Valley. At 2016 hrs, Rescue 122 was called to the aid of 23 persons on board the Ferry Riverdance that had lost all power and was in severe difficulties 10 nautical miles north west of Blackpool. Weather conditions on scene were atrocious with low cloud, storm force winds (50 gusting to 70 knots) causing severe turbulence and a sea state of 7 with an associated 10 metre swell. Light levels on scene were also poor meaning that even with night vision goggles the crew were struggling to maintain a visual horizon and references.
Rescue 122 arrived on scene at 2035 hrs and found the Riverdance cross wind, side on to the sea swell and listing between 45 and 60 degrees to her port. The battering of the waves against the slab sided ferry and associated rolling and surfing in the swell meant that on occasion the port bridge wing was dipping into the water and she was at significant risk of capsizing. Riverdance’s Captain had moved all 23 persons on board into the relative safety of the bridge and was requesting the immediate rescue of non essential personnel. After a detailed reconnaissance, the crew decided that the safest option was to winch the passengers from the ferry’s starboard bridge wing and attempts began.
Unfortunately, the strength of the wind and poor visual references meant that this option was technically extremely demanding. Despite some outstanding flying by Flt Lt Turner and exceptional winch operating by Sgt Stevens their numerous attempts to deliver the winchman over the next 30 minutes were unsuccessful. An even riskier option then had to be considered which would involve winching the passengers from the port bridge wing on the low side of the vessel.
One of the ferry crew was tied on to a rope and lowered from the wheelhouse onto the steep deck. Through skilful flying, accurate winch operating and considerable courage from the winchman a rope high-line was eventually delivered to the crew. The listing and violent motion of the Riverdance meant that the crew member was unable to keep hold of the high-line and the crew of Rescue 122 then had to repeat the process, this time managing to deliver the winchman to the deck. Flt Lt Turner was then required to maintain an accurate hover close to the vessel for an extended period of time which required significant power changes and therefore immense concentration.
Conditions on deck were appalling and MACR Taylor had to make his way up and down the steep listing deck whilst being battered by waves to organise the evacuation of the passengers and crew. Throughout this whole process MACR Taylor was not secured to the aircraft and at considerable risk of falling from the ferry; worse still, he would have undoubtedly been killed had the ferry capsized. The crew then began the transfer of casualties and managed to lift a total of eight from the vessel including the recovery of MACR Taylor as a triple lift. During this process the challenging conditions snapped the high-line and yet again Flt Lt Turner and Sgt Stevens were required to re-establish contact with the vessel; this was an especially impressive piece of winch operating from Sgt Stevens as the winchman was on board the Riverdance and therefore unable to offer assistance with the high line. He also had to manage multiple casualties, who were gripped with fear and in shock, to ensure their safety once on board the aircraft whilst maintaining constant high line contact with the vessel. Also, throughout this whole sortie, the input and support offered by the co-pilot Flt Lt Ratcliffe should not be underestimated and without his efforts the rest of the crew would be unable to carry out their functions. He remained calm and collected whilst co-ordinating all aspects of the rescue and communicated with multiple agencies including the captain of Riverdance.
Rescue 122 then flew to Blackpool to drop the passengers, refuel and shut down to wait for further tasking. Shortly afterwards the ferry unexpectedly ran aground on a sandbank and Rescue 177, which had arrived on scene from Prestwick, lifted a further six crew. Left on board were nine essential crew who were going to attempt to re-float the stricken vessel.
At 0415, Rescue 122 was again scrambled to the Riverdance as the vessel was now stranded on a sandbank and with the vessels cargo moving freely on the deck was expected to capsize. Despite already coping with the previous ordeal, by using the same techniques the crew went through the process of safely recovering the remaining nine crewmen. Despite the fact that the vessel was a little more stable the crew yet again had to work extremely hard as the ferry was still rolling and surfing. At one stage, the sudden and unexpected motion of the ferry endangered the aircraft and it was the lighting quick reaction of Sgt Stevens who called an immediate climb that prevented a disaster. MACR Taylor stayed on Riverdance until the last lift when he along with the Captain abandoned the vessel to her fate. The remaining casualties were all dropped at Blackpool Airport safe and well and Rescue 122 returned to base to resume SAR Standby.”
As a footnote to this rescue it should not be forgotten that by 2012, under the SAR-H Programme, the RAF and Royal Navy (Rescue 177) will cease to be responsible for the provision of search and rescue helicopter services along the UK’s coastline. This will instead by provided by a commercial organisation, the winner of the current IPT competition. The eventual winners will have a legacy to maintain.
- Andrew Drwiega