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UK SAR Harmonisation

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UK SAR Harmonisation

Old 11th Jan 2008, 17:09
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UK SAR Harmonisation

Heard today that Augusta Westland has joined the UK Air Rescue bid for SAR Harmonisation. So that's Bristow, SERCO, Augusta Westland and FBH all in one consortium.

Bad news for CHC/Thales especially with the recent poor press coverage of the S92 and CHC having their $400 million debt rating reduced to negative.

I think that leaves only the two bidders now that Bond have pulled out a few months ago.
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Old 11th Jan 2008, 18:27
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I suppose that's good? AW139's here we go. At least it isn't a Westland product.
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Old 11th Jan 2008, 18:42
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Westland

Maybe with Westland joinning Bristows and FBH & Serco they will be offering the EH-101 & AW-139 as there option. The 101 might have chance then???
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Old 11th Jan 2008, 19:40
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Maybe with Westland joinning Bristows and FBH & Serco they will be offering the EH-101 & AW-139 as there option.
So that'll be one set of crewmen with so much cabin space they don't know what to do with it and one set tripping over each other to avoid tripping over the casualty. Here's hoping common sense prevails. D'oh!
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Old 11th Jan 2008, 20:09
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Lost At Sea - What was the bad coverage they were getting on the S92. Thought it was going well there for them.

Thanks
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Old 11th Jan 2008, 20:54
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I suppose that's good? AW139's here we go. At least it isn't a Westland product.
You are assuming Westlands don't have other plans for the fleet, rather than just shipping something in from the Italians.
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Old 11th Jan 2008, 21:54
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Unless Air Knight have pulled out as well, surely there are 3 bidders?
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Old 12th Jan 2008, 09:11
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3 Bidders

Yes, still 3 consortiums: CHC/Thales, AirKnight and UK Air Rescue. AW have rejoined the fray with UK Air Rescue. I hear that the IPT are looking for expertise from the front line to help assess the bids. Will Crab be one of those "Volunteered" to assist? A nation holds its breath.
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Old 12th Jan 2008, 13:47
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which bidding group was lockheed martin with?
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Old 12th Jan 2008, 13:59
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which bidding group was lockheed martin with?

LM along with VT and BIH form the AirKnight Consortium.
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Old 13th Jan 2008, 12:07
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I hear that the IPT are looking for expertise from the front line to help assess the bids.
That's a bit radical... actually asking the guys who are going to use the equipment and operate the service what they think.

Have they been drinking...???
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Old 14th Jan 2008, 21:27
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AW rejoin the fray!

UK Air Rescue welcomes AgustaWestland to the team

UK Air Rescue, the British consortium of Bristow Helicopters, FB Heliservices and Serco seeking to run the UK’s Search and Rescue Helicopter (SAR-H) service, is today being joined by AgustaWestland, a global leader in helicopter systems and training.

The addition of AgustaWestland to the team further strengthens the credentials of UK Air Rescue. With an established track record of working together, each company brings specialist experience and insight to the consortium, creating the ideal partner to deliver unfailing, lifesaving search and rescue services over land and sea.

Between them, the founding companies of UK Air Rescue have extensive SAR experience spanning over 35 years, a deep public service ethos, commercial, technical and training expertise, a track record in innovation and a total focus on assured service delivery.

Allan Blake, Director of UK Air Rescue, said: “We are delighted to have AgustaWestland on board. AgustaWestland design helicopters that perform search and rescue operations around the world in all manner of situations and conditions. UK Air Rescue will combine their invaluable experience with the extensive SAR capabilities and experience with other helicopter types already within the partnership to ensure that our solution delivers exactly what the customer needs and what the public deserves.”

UK Air Rescue is currently one of three bidders who have been selected to participate in a dialogue and subsequently offer a solution in competition, which will be assessed jointly by the Ministry of Defence and Maritime and Coastguard Agency.



Notes

1. UK Air Rescue is a British consortium of Bristow Helicopters, FB Heliservices, Serco and AgustaWestland.

2. Bristow is one of the largest providers of helicopter services worldwide. Bristow’s extensive SAR experience over 35 years includes operations in Norway, the Soloman Islands, and the Netherlands as well as direct SAR support to the global oil/gas industry. Until July 2007 Bristow was the current SAR provider to the Maritime and Coastguard Agency with UK SAR experience dating from 1971. In that time Bristow has flown in excess of 40,000 SAR hours, carried out over 10,000 missions and rescued more than 6,500 people.

3. Serco brings the public service, operational and commercial experience essential to the delivery of a harmonised SAR operation. Serco is trusted to deliver highly sensitive, safety first, efficient services on behalf of the UK government. These include a wide range of key support services at military bases across the UK, state-of-the-art simulated mission training to military helicopter pilots and operational support to the Armed Forces, including engineering support to both rotary and fixed wing platforms. In addition, Serco has several successful PFI projects to its name, including the flagship Joint Services Command and Staff College at Shrivenham.

4. FB Heliservices, a Bristow and Cobham joint venture, brings unmatched experience of commercial and military SAR operational training and SAR service support. At the Search and Rescue Training Unit (SARTU) at RAF Valley, FB Heliservices provides SAR training for all military multi-engine Advanced Rotary Wing students and intensive training for pilots and crewmen specialising in search and rescue. SARTU is manned by a mixture of specialist SAR military and civilian instructors, providing the continuity and depth of experience to the instructor cadre as they are all highly experienced SAR aircrew; all are ex-military and many have extensive civil SAR experience.

5. AgustaWestland, a Finmeccanica company, is one of the largest helicopter companies in the world. The company offers an unrivalled range of helicopters, training and support solutions to satisfy the requirements of civil and military customers. AgustaWestland has its primary operations in Italy, the United Kingdom and the United States of America. Under the Sea King Integrated Operational Support (SKIOS) aircraft availability based contract, awarded in November 2007, AgustaWestland is supporting the current UK military SAR aircraft fleet that provide around the clock SAR cover for the UK and Falkland Islands. AgustaWestland has the most extensive range of modern SAR helicopters in its product range including the AW139 medium range and AW101 long range helicopters.
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Old 15th Jan 2008, 07:55
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Mmmmm. All very impressive until the bottom line.

AgustaWestland has the most extensive range of modern SAR helicopters in its product range including the AW139 medium range and AW101 long range helicopters.
See my previous post (11th Jan) They'll need to come up with more suitable aircraft than those. They need a rescue helicopter, not a helicopter bastardised for rescue purposes.
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Old 15th Jan 2008, 08:51
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SAR Helicopter

They need a rescue helicopter, not a helicopter bastardised for rescue purposes.
Surely that has always been the case? Is there an existing helicopter that was designed specifically for SAR?
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Old 15th Jan 2008, 09:33
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See my previous post (11th Jan) They'll need to come up with more suitable aircraft than those. They need a rescue helicopter, not a helicopter bastardised for rescue purposes.
Vie sans frontieres your comment looks really ridiculous! Both 139 and 101 have a specific SAR variant and both are already operational in such roles.
Bastardised is such "out of context" word that could even sounds offensive in this case!
Are you a little biased on Agusta products?
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Old 15th Jan 2008, 19:55
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Aw 149

How about this then:

http://www.agustawestland.com/produc...oduct=29&id=29

When are you guys going to realise that there will never be a 'perfect' SAR machine.

Generally speaking the old favorite in design principles prevails. That is the design philosophy behind the 'SKIP' (known as the DUMPSTER in the US). ie. What will hold a lot will hold a little). Of course you will need smaller craft for small jobs and medium for medium jobs but please, gentlemen, head out of the sand, we live in the real world and in that real world we make do as best we can. It's bad enough trying to get manufacturers to get helicopters that are good at one job let alone the multitude of tasks that they are now asked to perform.


G.

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Old 16th Jan 2008, 07:51
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AW149

With a cabin height as low as that, I would have thought the average employment lifespan for the crewmen will be about three years before their dodgy knees and backs get the better of them. (Ask a Puma crewman!)
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Old 16th Jan 2008, 08:07
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I thought they were looking for a civil platform solution, isn’t the AW149 a militarized AW139?
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Old 16th Jan 2008, 11:22
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I thought they were looking for a civil platform solution, isn’t the AW149 a militarized AW139?
It doesn't work like that, it is up to bidders to provide the solution, whatever that may be. A civil servant on the IPT even stated at one meeting that "the solution doesn't have to be a helicopter". Raised eyebrows everywhere! As Geoffers says there is no perfect SAR helicopter, adapt, adopt, improvise is the name of the game. What is really needed, I think, is a Sea King size replacement, High Cabin NH90 anyone?
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Old 16th Jan 2008, 15:18
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Now for my two bobs worth!
As has already been stated, this is the opportunity to get things right from the start. Whatever machine/s is/are finally decided on, it/they need to be able to do the job from day one! Not six/eight months after taking over.
The aircraft is going to be used purely for SAR, not troop lifting, underslinging or anything military! Well not yet anyway. So get it right now!!!
Yes, it really needs to be something S61/Sea King size, not AW139, which I am sure is a very useful machine, but would not have been able to do the job off Dorset on Sunday night without help from elsewhere! Yes, I know there are bases elsewhere, Lee(139 from April) , Chivenor, Culdrose but if the Harmonisation team don't get it right, then they will probably be 139s as well! (Everyone seems to be obsessed with speed, not lifting ability and range. Is Jeremy Clarkson on the IPT?)
If the IPT need expertise from the front line then so be it. Only don't forget that Crab is not the only expert, there are some pretty experienced Crews on the MCA contract as well!!!
A bit more than two bobs worth but I needed to get that off my chest!
3D
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