The R22 corner: Owning, flying & training questions

[4ftHover]

There has been at least one case where a passenger with a PPL pushed stick forward by mistake while trying to take a picture both were killed. - Always remove the left seat controls before departure.......

I understand Ex fixed wing guys are quite prone to pushing the stick forward out of habit i guess.

[helimutt]

it's not that easy to get into truly negative G wth normal flying, but things like a lot of turbulence, showing off etc could be a factor to watch out for. If you ever feel that slight weightless feeling, just load up the disk a bit more with gently aft cyclic.

[helicfii]

Coning hinges on a teetering rotor head should not exist- it is a crime against nature!

[fulldownauto]

Lu Z hath reincarnate! Now explain to the masses why the coning hinges should not be! Perhaps somthing to do with the Delta 3?

(I should mention I agree with you, Robinson should design some blades that can handle load without hinges.)

[topendtorque]

Coning hinges on a teetering rotor head should not exist- it is a crime against nature

Big call.

Now why did ol' Frank leave his last place of employment??

And, How many times have we said, why not bolt a R22 head straight onto a 269 mast, pretty much the same bolt hole I believe?

But wait there's more, maybe it was we were saying why not bolt a 269 head onto a R22 Mast, that would make sense, for lots of reasons.

Or should I ask, how do those who are deleriously pragmatic by nature solve, or even accept as a problem, an obvious conundrum?

[helicfii]

No Delta 3 in an R-22 set-up, I'm afraid... The problem with coning hinges is the main rotor blade divergence scenario, which is still not completely understood. Oddly enough, it is also not discussed at Robinson's CFI school. Instead, they spend the time extolling the virtues and safety record of the Lycoming piston engine...! The problem is, Robinson bases their assumption on statistics gathered only in the USA, when the majority of their helicopters are operated outside of the USA- just a little bit dishonest, me thinks.

Anyone who flys the aircraft should read the NTSB Special Investigation Report posted above, and make sure that they understand it.

It doesn't matter that they later raised the rpm setting where the low rpm horn comes on, and it doesn't matter that they added a electric governor- it does not stop the aircraft from experiencing main rotor blade divergence.

Unload the rotor head, and the following occurs:

1. Airframe begins to roll
2. Mast bump
3. Droop stop tusk shears as blade swings down on the coning hinge
4. MR blade continues to travel downwards, passing through tail cone and front bubble.
5. Death to all occupants

[Flyin'ematlast]

R22 dipsticks?

Every R22 I've flown has had dipsticks ( obviously only 1 for the alpha). Just for info they have varied in colour.

The plain aluminium ones in the machines that I SFH at the moment are awful to read in bright sunlight but the anodised matt black ones I used at Heli-Air made the fuel level very clear to read in all light conditions. If you can then get the black anodised ones .

Good luck

Ian.

[Johe02]

get the black anodised

Just a spot of matt black paint actually. .

[Heli-phile]

Robinson Dipsticks

I think they are usually located in the Right hand front seat!

[manfromuncle]

Yes, the R22 aint perfect, but if you bolt a Schweizer rotorhead on it, it becomes heavier, more expensive, requires more power, becomes slower etc etc. Then you are left with, errr, a Schweizer, lovely training aircraft, but expensive to operate, slow, and no storage space. It's a trade off.

[500e]

I will take the slow & no storage please + at least it does not have to be returned to sender.

[Heli-phile]

R22's do not have storage space

Those handy little 'storage areas' under the seats in the R22 are the difference between a sore back and a life in a wheel chair in a heavy landing event. Having seen both a R22 and a H300 that suffered heavy landings (i.e. verticle deceleration) there is no question as to which machine absorbs the most of the energy. The H300 cabins are undamaged but the skids etc are trashed (the way it should be) The R22 cabin is trashed (skids might as well not have been there!) and If those 'storage areas' are full of manuals and junk all the energy goes into the pilots backside then on and up from there.

[topendtorque]

I must say that the last three posts look like those who know back pocket pain, regardless of storage space.

Could I ask each of you, how slower would it be, given that the 269 blades are filled with air not foil, but, there must be, may be, more frontal area that is thrashing around??

Or, could that configuration be run at a more geared down level that would exclude that discussion???

I suppose for any suggested M/R xmon ratio change, that something other than a Half a Buick diff would have to be used??

auto capacity, would be not largely dissimilar?? would it??
curious??

[500e]

AND whats wrong with half a Buick diff? also blades not held together with glue & paint.
Is this where I hear incoming

[aldee]

Negative "g" demo

"anglechopper wrote"
Does anyone know any schools demonstrating negitive G in the air in R22s ?

I think you'll find an instructor at Wanaka that will show you low to neg. in an R 22 although an EMS pilot/instructor I use who was put through his paces by Simon suggests one demonstration of true -ve will be enough for anyone

Did some mountain flying with one of their instructors recently and during a period of turbulence we got a very good example of what happens during low "g" .

If the 6000' landing on Mt. Aspiring wasn't justifaction enough for the $500 spend the low "g" roll was the icing on the cake.
One of the best days flying to date

[CS-Hover]

Dipsticks and Fuel Tank

Hi

i'm trying to do some calculations, about the fuel tank capacity , but needing some help (not near R22 now )

QUESTION 1: both tanks (main and aux) are connected together, so the level of fuel, in each tank will always be the same (U tube hydrostatics example) - when the AUX go empty (less capacity, and higher end) the MAIN still have the quantity of fuel given by the difference between MAIN-AUX capacity ???

QUESTION 2: (if Q1 = true) it's possible to know the quantity of fuel in both tanks (total), only by knowing the amount of fuel in the MAIN - not total accurate - dipstick use


regarding the dipsticks (R22 or R44), can anyone post a picture, please?

thanks

regards

[SpinningSnowbird]

CS-Hover:

Question 1: No, the difference in tank capacity is not merely because the main tank is deeper, the aux tank is also shorter lengthwise than the main tank. On level ground you can expect approximately 4-5 US Gal remaining in the main tank at the point that the aux tank runs dry.

Question 2: I suppose that you could now estimate aux tank fuel with a formula like this:

(Main tank gallons - 5)/(19.8 - 5) x 10.9)

However, this is now approaching something close to witchcraft, since dipstick fuel measurements are more of an art than a science.

Also, since the connecting tube between the tanks is of relatively small diameter, it can take a while for tank levels to equalize, so don't try this immediately after fueling.

Every dipstick I've ever seen is just a length of wooden dowel with gallon markings on it.

Cheers, SS.

[Gaseous]

dipsticks

The best dipstick is a piece of black anodised angle alloy with a piece of clear pipe held to it with cable ties. Scratch the calibration marks on the alloy. Dip the tank. Put thumb over open end of pipe. Fuel stays in pipe when dipstick withdrawn from tank. Absolutley no doubt about the level. Remove thumb from pipe and it empties. If you have 2 tanks with different amounts the calibration marks can be different on each web of the angle. Simple, cheap, 100% reliable.

I'll post a picture of mine later.

To calibrate, empty tanks, add known quantity of fuel, wait to equalise, dip and scratch. Repeat.

[CS-Hover]

Hi

SpinningSnowbird:

can you explain how you came to the "expect approximately 4-5 US Gal remaining in the main tank at the point that the aux tank runs dry." ??

i'm with you on "connecting tube between the tanks is of relatively small diameter, it can take a while for tank levels to equalize"

but see my point:



both start at decrease at same time, since the tanks start at same height, because are interconnected, both will have the same height all the time (as fuel is consumed) - there will some delay because tube diameter, maneuvers, ...

so when the level (consumption) goes that, AUX is empty, the MAIN will still have (19.8 - 10.9 = ) 8.9 US Gal

make sense ??


Gaseous:
picture will be appreciated

regards

[lostpianoplayer]

Blade sailing and fuel dipsticks

1. Blade Sail. Biggles99, thx for suggestion re blade sailing - just one question - do you mean 30 degrees EITHER WAY??? ie wind coming from 1.30 position vs wind from 10.30 position??? I would have the thought the direction of rotation would mean one would be better than the other. Any idea??

2. Dipsticks (fuel). I'm very interested to hear about this - most of my time is fixed wing, where you're always told that the fuel gauges are innaccurate. and you ALWAYS verify visually, or with a dipstick, where possible before flight. The existence of fuel dipsticks for the 22 new to me, I'm afraid. I've always been a little uncomfortable w trusting my gauges, and try to use common sense to back up the gauges.....BUT a fuel dipstick would be marvelous....

BUT...I don't know how the indicator system works, and always thought that it was unwise just to ram something in the tank, gently or otherwise. Is it, in fact, safe to put some sort of fuel dipstick straight down from the fuel tank filler hole, till it hits the bottom of the tank? I guess I'd always imagine some form of helicopter version of the ball-on-lever thingie you see inside a toilet cistern, or something equally fragile, and didn't want to damage it. Thinking about it, this may have been a little naive. Anyone know EXACTLY how the indication system works, and whether there are, in fact, any risks in dipping the tanks? I'm referring to my own machine, which is a R22B. It's strange - I trained w a good school, but never saw or heard anything about tank-dipping. Thoughts welcome.