AS350 Nutter in NI
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Belfast
All The Gear No Idear
Next time I am given traffic info from Belfast App about G-LARR lifting out of Craigantlet I will be staying well out of the away.
If the owner wasnt flying??????????? I wonder did the pilot admit to him that it happened
If the owner wasnt flying??????????? I wonder did the pilot admit to him that it happened
Fleet Manager
Joined: Aug 2006
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 7,082
Likes: 2,939
From: Ontario, Canada
Thanks Mylesdw,
You made me laugh! It's Hogg's brief flight in the 300, which rolls through my mind every time I pick one up; "How am I not going to do that today (or ever)!"
You have to be an extra special pilot to be able to properly handle an aircraft and an audience at the same time. Generally, pilot's can handle aircraft, it's the audience which introduces the problem. If it's not the "watch this" show off attitude, it's the "Oh my gosh, everyone's watching me" fear of just screwing up. Either can be a real problem.
The best airshow pilots seem to have these conflicting circumstances well balanced. The average pilot using a helicopter to create an "event", has trouble written all over it.
I agree that probably that pilot learned from the takeoff, but it looks to me that there was too much wrong with it for all of the shortcomings to have been learned from the one experience!
No wonder the public views aviation with some uncertainty!
You made me laugh! It's Hogg's brief flight in the 300, which rolls through my mind every time I pick one up; "How am I not going to do that today (or ever)!"
You have to be an extra special pilot to be able to properly handle an aircraft and an audience at the same time. Generally, pilot's can handle aircraft, it's the audience which introduces the problem. If it's not the "watch this" show off attitude, it's the "Oh my gosh, everyone's watching me" fear of just screwing up. Either can be a real problem.
The best airshow pilots seem to have these conflicting circumstances well balanced. The average pilot using a helicopter to create an "event", has trouble written all over it.
I agree that probably that pilot learned from the takeoff, but it looks to me that there was too much wrong with it for all of the shortcomings to have been learned from the one experience!
No wonder the public views aviation with some uncertainty!
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 31
From: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Offshore, I do understand where you are coming from, he nearly killed his passengers. I will bet what scared him the most was that he nearly killed HIMSELF. It concentrates the mind. People make mistakes, I did virtually the same as this and I was not showing off, I just got it wrong. I now have 6000 hours and like to think that each error I have made has taught me a bit more about flying. If every pilot lost their licence when they made an error, even as serious as this, I would probably be able to get a captaincy with Virgin Atlantic by now.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 2,584
Likes: 0
From: UK
Hmm. Mistake, yeah, OK, we (I) 've made them too, but...
Wedding lift. Cutting it a bit close as a PPL at the best of times, but a towering take off like that, even if under control which this one clearly was not, is undoubtedly an unnecessary and hazardous manoeuvre, especially with pax on board, but from a confined site like that in a single, the whole op was an utter no-no, surely?.
The following uncontrolled spin and backwards transition which so nearly became overcooked was manifestly dangerous, and the ensuing uncontrolled yaw (loss of TR authority due low speed, high Tq?) and overcorrection with excessive fwd cyclic that left the a/c in that astonishing tight descending nearly vertical nose-down turn, Hell, Dennis Kenyon scarcely achieved attitudes like that, but at least his looked intentional.
And then, the imbecile, instead of slinking off quietly and letting go of the the seat slowly and unobtrusively had the gall, the rank stupidity, to return for a fly by to what looked very like a free air hover at a couple of hundred feet, over a congested area, in a single. Need I go on?
I hope this idiot is prosecuted to the limit and is permanently removed from our skies. He has no place there, as he has so thoroughly and amply demonstrated.
This was no mistake...At best a hideously dangerous incompetent screw-up compounded by an unbelievably stupid and deliberate return to the scene to repeat the calumny and consciously break even more rule of air and airmanship.
Wedding lift. Cutting it a bit close as a PPL at the best of times, but a towering take off like that, even if under control which this one clearly was not, is undoubtedly an unnecessary and hazardous manoeuvre, especially with pax on board, but from a confined site like that in a single, the whole op was an utter no-no, surely?.
The following uncontrolled spin and backwards transition which so nearly became overcooked was manifestly dangerous, and the ensuing uncontrolled yaw (loss of TR authority due low speed, high Tq?) and overcorrection with excessive fwd cyclic that left the a/c in that astonishing tight descending nearly vertical nose-down turn, Hell, Dennis Kenyon scarcely achieved attitudes like that, but at least his looked intentional.
And then, the imbecile, instead of slinking off quietly and letting go of the the seat slowly and unobtrusively had the gall, the rank stupidity, to return for a fly by to what looked very like a free air hover at a couple of hundred feet, over a congested area, in a single. Need I go on?
I hope this idiot is prosecuted to the limit and is permanently removed from our skies. He has no place there, as he has so thoroughly and amply demonstrated.
This was no mistake...At best a hideously dangerous incompetent screw-up compounded by an unbelievably stupid and deliberate return to the scene to repeat the calumny and consciously break even more rule of air and airmanship.
Hovering AND talking
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,711
Likes: 1
From: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Whilst there are a few people on here who know who the pilot was, is it public domain knowledge that he was a PPL and not CPL?
Cheers
Whirls
Cheers
Whirls
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 111
Likes: 1
From: just left of a valley,dorsetestishireland
I like the little old lady who is happily waving away (lower left screen), gayly oblivious of whats happening and is totally unaware to the faces around her. She woudnt of seen the vomit on the inside of the perspex!!!! 
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
From: Where my blades stop turning
Just a question... I hear you guys out that way have an over abundance of rules, but surely you are aloud to do towering take offs from confined places in a single? Whats the use of having a helicopter if you can't?
I don't see a problem with it there, if he had done it properly and headed into wind (controlled) ?
Just wondering
I don't see a problem with it there, if he had done it properly and headed into wind (controlled) ?
Just wondering
Guest
Posts: n/a
Looks to me like he pulled too much power upon lifting and didn't put enough right pedal in, then it all went t*ts up from there. Pretty scary viewing whatever happened. Turning downwind directly after lifting probably didn't help (assuming he was into wind on the 'pad').
Anyway, I'd love to hear the pilot's account.
Anyway, I'd love to hear the pilot's account.
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
From: UK
I agree with manfromuncle, I don't think he was trying to show off, if he is a PPL as suggested he likely was just out of his depth and made a mistake?
As for returning to the scene, have you considered he was maybe returning to land, and check things out and let the pax out, and possibly just picked a better spot to land out of shot? The site was clearly unsuitable for the job. Maybe some further training and supervision would be appropriate rather than just pulling his licence?
You are all very quick to judge, have none of you ever made a mistake then? Never had a dodgy take off or landing? because if you ever do, and it ends up on a public forum like here, there will be plenty of people to put the boot in....
As for returning to the scene, have you considered he was maybe returning to land, and check things out and let the pax out, and possibly just picked a better spot to land out of shot? The site was clearly unsuitable for the job. Maybe some further training and supervision would be appropriate rather than just pulling his licence?
You are all very quick to judge, have none of you ever made a mistake then? Never had a dodgy take off or landing? because if you ever do, and it ends up on a public forum like here, there will be plenty of people to put the boot in....
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
From: UK
The Take off certainly looks unusual and it would be very interesting to hear from the pilot on what the intended departure profile was?
Personally, the first time someone flew like this with me as a passenger would be the last time.
Fly safe!
Personally, the first time someone flew like this with me as a passenger would be the last time.
Fly safe!
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: N Ireland
Hi everyone I am the pilot of the 350 and really don’t understand what the big deal is!
I think it is pretty sad that some of you are trying to persecute me publicly and don’t have the balls to speak to me face to face. Also surprised at you southxross starting this thread. From someone in your position I would have expected a bit more sense, but will bear that in mind in future dealings. Ok any questions?
I think it is pretty sad that some of you are trying to persecute me publicly and don’t have the balls to speak to me face to face. Also surprised at you southxross starting this thread. From someone in your position I would have expected a bit more sense, but will bear that in mind in future dealings. Ok any questions?
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
From: Where my blades stop turning
as350nutter
Good on ya for showing up, but I don't think you really should have to defend your self, as you say, who has the right to persecute you online!
But it seems a lot of people do before finding out the facts, guess i am just as guilty.
Anyway, if you are indeed the pilot? Good on ya for putting your neck out!
Good on ya for showing up, but I don't think you really should have to defend your self, as you say, who has the right to persecute you online!
But it seems a lot of people do before finding out the facts, guess i am just as guilty.
Anyway, if you are indeed the pilot? Good on ya for putting your neck out!
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
From: Omnipresent
Fair enough for posting back. But can you now elaborate on a) what you were trying to achieve and b) what actually happened?
I can't fathom how you "don't understand what the big deal is". I know what I saw on that video....
And as for the balls to speak to you face to face, I did contemplate ringing a contact number I have for G-LARR's pilot but was then informed it may not have been the normal individual. Plenty of the previous posters I'm sure would happily chat face to face. Some do participate in this forum under great cloaks of secrecy but not me. PM me your mobile, landline, email, you name it and I'll be on once I'm finished on that bloody wallet emptying ebay.....
H
PS: can you also elaborate what AOC you were operating under?
And to the assembled masses, what's the likelihood of not overtorquing with that much nose down in the recovery and also the max sideways speed for a 350?
I can't fathom how you "don't understand what the big deal is". I know what I saw on that video....
And as for the balls to speak to you face to face, I did contemplate ringing a contact number I have for G-LARR's pilot but was then informed it may not have been the normal individual. Plenty of the previous posters I'm sure would happily chat face to face. Some do participate in this forum under great cloaks of secrecy but not me. PM me your mobile, landline, email, you name it and I'll be on once I'm finished on that bloody wallet emptying ebay.....
H
PS: can you also elaborate what AOC you were operating under?
And to the assembled masses, what's the likelihood of not overtorquing with that much nose down in the recovery and also the max sideways speed for a 350?
Last edited by Hedski; 10th December 2007 at 20:43.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 345
Likes: 0
From: Near the Mountains
AS350Nutter
Of course, now that you have put your head above the parapet, perhaps you might enlighten us as to what actually happened - you know, in a spirit of information sharing and technique development.
You'd have to agree that, from the video at least, it looked very unusual. But, as you say, none of us were at the controls, you were.
Like I said on my earlier post, I had a knot in my stomach looking at it but maybe I'm missing something, eh? Maybe there's a whole bunch of stuff about flying helicopters I don't know yet and you can tell me?
So how DID you do that?
"Ogni casa ha la sue croce!"
Of course, now that you have put your head above the parapet, perhaps you might enlighten us as to what actually happened - you know, in a spirit of information sharing and technique development.
You'd have to agree that, from the video at least, it looked very unusual. But, as you say, none of us were at the controls, you were.
Like I said on my earlier post, I had a knot in my stomach looking at it but maybe I'm missing something, eh? Maybe there's a whole bunch of stuff about flying helicopters I don't know yet and you can tell me?
So how DID you do that?
"Ogni casa ha la sue croce!"
Joined: Jul 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 57
From: UK
So then, AS350NUTTER, what's the truth behind the, er, slightly 'unorthodox' departure? Was it intentional?
PS Welcome to PPRuNe. That's one helluva entrance...
Edited to add: Wow. That's the first 'triple post' that I've seen...
PS Welcome to PPRuNe. That's one helluva entrance...
Edited to add: Wow. That's the first 'triple post' that I've seen...
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 571
Likes: 0
From: Alderney or Lancashire UK
Hi Nutter,
I would be curious if that take off brought you a smirk or a bowel movement.
If the former, you deserve all the criticism above.
If the latter, it was a bit of bad luck it ending up on YouTube. Learn from it, do your laundry and move on.
I remember doing one (take off, not bowel movement
)which went horribly wrong at a famous northern pub a few years ago. I did nervously check YouTube for a while afterwards but I got away with it. I certainly learnt from it.
Cheers
G.
Edit. 4th cross post
I would be curious if that take off brought you a smirk or a bowel movement.
If the former, you deserve all the criticism above.
If the latter, it was a bit of bad luck it ending up on YouTube. Learn from it, do your laundry and move on.
I remember doing one (take off, not bowel movement
)which went horribly wrong at a famous northern pub a few years ago. I did nervously check YouTube for a while afterwards but I got away with it. I certainly learnt from it. Cheers
G.
Edit. 4th cross post
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
From: UK
Welcome AS350Nutter, you are of course correct no-one has to justify ones actions on PPRune, but in the interest of debate and as you have commendably IMHO raised your head above the parapet, it would be enlightening to hear your thought processes and actions as seen on the video, so that we might better understand the flying demonstrated, I assume you are prepared to do this as why else own up to being the pilot?
As every member of PPRune I have my own opinion but I am far more interested in hearing yours!
As every member of PPRune I have my own opinion but I am far more interested in hearing yours!
Better red than ...
Joined: Aug 2004
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,415
Likes: 0
From: Appleby-in-Westmorland Cumbria England
Edited to add: Wow. That's the first 'triple post' that I've seen...
h-r
(still curious about the chicken shed venue
)