Pilot Exiting While Rotors Turning
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Pilot Exiting While Rotors Turning
During a recent trip to a small Caribbean island near Venezuala I watched the local pleasure flight pilot exit an R44 with the rotors still turning at what seemed to me to be quite a high speed. They continued for several minutes in very breezy conditions. This seemed reckless to me given the heli was surrounded by water also. Does anyone know of any incidents when this sloppy approach has caused problems? I guess it wasn't his heli?
Incidently, on his next flight he didn't do a walkaround or sprag clutch check before lifting. Decided not to fly with him.
Incidently, on his next flight he didn't do a walkaround or sprag clutch check before lifting. Decided not to fly with him.
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Rotors Running
gOlfer
You don't say in your thread if the engine had been shut down. If the aircraft is fitted with a rotor brake you should always shut down and bring the rotors to a stop before leaving the controls. I know of at least 2 instances when this wasn't done. The first involved the partial scalping of a passenger who was being guided out of the disc area by a pilot who had not shutdown his aircraft. The autopilot had not been disengaged and had unknown to the pilot motored the disc forwards.
The second occasion occurred at Battersea Heliport when a "celebrity" pilot left the controls with engine running to assist with passenger unloading. Needless to say he received the mother of all rollickings from ATC.
Both incidents were caused by a desire to save time. It ain't worth it.
You don't say in your thread if the engine had been shut down. If the aircraft is fitted with a rotor brake you should always shut down and bring the rotors to a stop before leaving the controls. I know of at least 2 instances when this wasn't done. The first involved the partial scalping of a passenger who was being guided out of the disc area by a pilot who had not shutdown his aircraft. The autopilot had not been disengaged and had unknown to the pilot motored the disc forwards.
The second occasion occurred at Battersea Heliport when a "celebrity" pilot left the controls with engine running to assist with passenger unloading. Needless to say he received the mother of all rollickings from ATC.
Both incidents were caused by a desire to save time. It ain't worth it.
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RS
Yes the engine was shut down but the blade sail was quite significant in the breeze. Being an R44 it was relying on the frictions to hold the controls in place, presumably a strong gust could move the stick, tilt the disc and good bye tail?
Yes the engine was shut down but the blade sail was quite significant in the breeze. Being an R44 it was relying on the frictions to hold the controls in place, presumably a strong gust could move the stick, tilt the disc and good bye tail?
I have heard of two occasions of the pilot leaving the cockpit with rotors turning with frictions tightened. A Jet Ranger pilot had to unload the baggage bay after landing on a rig, he opened the baggage bay door, removed the contents and when closing the door pushed too hard and the a/c started to yaw and eventually went over the side of the rig into the sea, I don't know how he got home. The second case was during a Bell 212 ferry to Nigeria, the battery temperature warning system indicated an overheat, they landed near a lake and with rotors running etc., the pilot and engineer removed the battery and placed it in the lake and then carried on with the ferry, arranging for a battery to be shipped out to them.
Last edited by Oldlae; 5th Dec 2007 at 22:03.
pilot exiting whilst rotors turning
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I saw several instances of 'blades turning and no pilot', while in New Zealand. I actually watched one pilot wash down his Jet ranger, eat his lunch prior to climbing back into his still running a/c. I presume very secure and positive locks are fitted and perhaps the regs are not the same as the UK.
Clearly the concept seems to work for them!
Clearly the concept seems to work for them!
When I was doing ag work it was the norm - sometimes you'd be working by yourself, filling your own tanks among other things.
Never at flight rpm, and always with a positive collective lock (not just collective friction) in addition to cyclic friction. Never had any trouble, nor did anyone else I worked with.
There weren't any non-crew people around to walk into a blade, so it was an acceptable risk in this situation.
Never at flight rpm, and always with a positive collective lock (not just collective friction) in addition to cyclic friction. Never had any trouble, nor did anyone else I worked with.
There weren't any non-crew people around to walk into a blade, so it was an acceptable risk in this situation.
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The ANO says:
'An operator must ensure that a helicopter rotor is not turned under
power without a qualified pilot at the controls.'
It would therefore be legally acceptable in the UK whether wise or not.
'An operator must ensure that a helicopter rotor is not turned under
power without a qualified pilot at the controls.'
It would therefore be legally acceptable in the UK whether wise or not.
BHenderson
Sorry for nitpicking but the ANO actually says
There is a common misconception that it says what you posted. Whilst it is similar, its not quite the same. If the purpose is not to go flying then seems it is still acceptable for students to start helicopters. Also allows non-pilot engineers to carry out ground runs.
I am sure that in this thread the intention would be to then go flying, so the ANO def would still apply. Knowing where to find some of the minutae can be handy sometimes.
I am not trying to be an arse, just point something out.
I can't express an opinion as to whether its sensible to leave a helicopter rotors running, as I am UK based and we don't tend to do it. But the rest of the world seems to manage quite happily without an inordinate number of accidents.
What other countries than Australia and Canada, and I think the USA is it a normal practice ?
Gary
Sorry for nitpicking but the ANO actually says
An operator shall not permit a helicopter rotor to be turned under power for the
purpose of making a flight unless there is a person at the controls entitled in
accordance with article 26 of this Order to act as pilot-in-command of the helicopter.
purpose of making a flight unless there is a person at the controls entitled in
accordance with article 26 of this Order to act as pilot-in-command of the helicopter.
I am sure that in this thread the intention would be to then go flying, so the ANO def would still apply. Knowing where to find some of the minutae can be handy sometimes.
I am not trying to be an arse, just point something out.
I can't express an opinion as to whether its sensible to leave a helicopter rotors running, as I am UK based and we don't tend to do it. But the rest of the world seems to manage quite happily without an inordinate number of accidents.
What other countries than Australia and Canada, and I think the USA is it a normal practice ?
Gary
Okay okay, if it really bothers you that much what somebody else does then go and hibernate. I drove my car on the motorway at 80mph and it is killing me knowing that on a drivers spotters website I am being condenmed as a lunatic but hey, life goes on.
Getting out the cab with rotors running is not something I have done or will do but people do do it and on their head be it (or maybe off with their head).
Is this topic that serious that we must start a campaign against anyone who has a left a chopper with the blades turning.
Calm down and get a life.
Getting out the cab with rotors running is not something I have done or will do but people do do it and on their head be it (or maybe off with their head).
Is this topic that serious that we must start a campaign against anyone who has a left a chopper with the blades turning.
Calm down and get a life.
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An experienced Bell 47 AG operator I know says he always jumps out after engine start to check for oil, hydraulic or fuel leaks during the warm up. Seems like a reasonable thing to me when operating with hard worked machines. Better than discovering a problem while airborne surely.
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I fly tourist's during the of NZ summer season, and we land at 7000amsl on the top of the glaciers t let the tourists get out and have a walk on the snow. Now we leave the machines running the whole time, for a few good reasons.
1: Up there the weather can change really fast, it always amazes me just how fast. You can go from a picture perfect day to having cloud rolling in a matter of minutes and then the whole valley is gone...but then it can clear just as fast. So I dont really want to get stuck up there with the pax, so if it turns, we can bundle them in and get going again.
2: On a good day, we can do over 20 flights up there, so shutting down every 20-40 mins seems pointless, plus costly. Also if you cant restart.....see above. PLus refueling, seeing we only carry upto 56%, and dont ever go below 20%, it takes hardly anytime to refuel so again its easier to leave it running.
Now before anyone jumps up and down saying it only takes 30 sec to shutdown....we operate Super D's and D2's....which have a 2 min cool down time. I have refueled in that time.
It is not without its risks, but careful pax managment and proper safety briefings then the risk is reduced vastly.
cheers all
Hughesy
1: Up there the weather can change really fast, it always amazes me just how fast. You can go from a picture perfect day to having cloud rolling in a matter of minutes and then the whole valley is gone...but then it can clear just as fast. So I dont really want to get stuck up there with the pax, so if it turns, we can bundle them in and get going again.
2: On a good day, we can do over 20 flights up there, so shutting down every 20-40 mins seems pointless, plus costly. Also if you cant restart.....see above. PLus refueling, seeing we only carry upto 56%, and dont ever go below 20%, it takes hardly anytime to refuel so again its easier to leave it running.
Now before anyone jumps up and down saying it only takes 30 sec to shutdown....we operate Super D's and D2's....which have a 2 min cool down time. I have refueled in that time.
It is not without its risks, but careful pax managment and proper safety briefings then the risk is reduced vastly.
cheers all
Hughesy
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Back in 1968, the US Army taught students to friction the controls at idle and get out to do a solo area recon for confined area practice! The bet was this was better than having us shutdown and then fail to restart, with the ensuing goat-rope to recover all the stranded helos!
Nov 9 incident NJ
Wind gust
MORRISTOWN - A helicopter pilot died this afternoon in an apparent freak accident, authorities said.
The pilot had stopped to refuel his chartered helicopter at Morristown Air Service on Old Highway 11E around 3:30 p.m. when the top rotor blade struck him and cut off the top of his head, Morristown Police Department Lt. Michelle Jones said. He died at the scene.
The man's name, age and destination weren't immediately available.
The helicopter carried two passengers from West Virginia, police spokeswoman Bonnie Langdon said. They had gone inside the airport, and the pilot had paid for the fuel and was climbing back into the helicopter when the blade hit him, police said.
The Federal Aviation Administration has been called in to investigate the death.
MORRISTOWN - A helicopter pilot died this afternoon in an apparent freak accident, authorities said.
The pilot had stopped to refuel his chartered helicopter at Morristown Air Service on Old Highway 11E around 3:30 p.m. when the top rotor blade struck him and cut off the top of his head, Morristown Police Department Lt. Michelle Jones said. He died at the scene.
The man's name, age and destination weren't immediately available.
The helicopter carried two passengers from West Virginia, police spokeswoman Bonnie Langdon said. They had gone inside the airport, and the pilot had paid for the fuel and was climbing back into the helicopter when the blade hit him, police said.
The Federal Aviation Administration has been called in to investigate the death.
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Gary I think we have crossed wires. Golfer in his original post stated that the engine had been shut down. Now in the UK according to the ANO, it is acceptable to get out in this instance. If the engine was running however the ANO does not allow this. Simple.
Whilst it is similar, its not quite the same. If the purpose is not to go flying then seems it is still acceptable for students to start helicopters.
212man
Thats the bit that causes arguments in flying schools around the country.
How does a solo student start up on his own ? Last instructor seminar I was at, this caused a it of debate, and the FIEs opinion was that until someone has completed their first solo, they can't start the helicopter on their own, after that they are suitably qualified.
I think it is left open to interpretation which does none of us any favours.
Edited to Add, Article 26 looks clearer than the last time I read and seems to have been reworded and now reads like it allows solo students to do what was causing all the confusion when they first reworded article 50.
I've edited this again to stop the entire thread going off on a tangent. I find no evidence of changes to article 26, like I originally thought had happened , and on reading it again today it seems pretty clear in its intentions.
Here is a link to the thread were the confusion over this was discussed earlier this year http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...r+rotor&page=2
GS
Thats the bit that causes arguments in flying schools around the country.
How does a solo student start up on his own ? Last instructor seminar I was at, this caused a it of debate, and the FIEs opinion was that until someone has completed their first solo, they can't start the helicopter on their own, after that they are suitably qualified.
I think it is left open to interpretation which does none of us any favours.
Edited to Add, Article 26 looks clearer than the last time I read and seems to have been reworded and now reads like it allows solo students to do what was causing all the confusion when they first reworded article 50.
I've edited this again to stop the entire thread going off on a tangent. I find no evidence of changes to article 26, like I originally thought had happened , and on reading it again today it seems pretty clear in its intentions.
Here is a link to the thread were the confusion over this was discussed earlier this year http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...r+rotor&page=2
GS
Last edited by VeeAny; 6th Dec 2007 at 09:12.