Eurocopter or Bell?
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Switzerland
Eurocopter or Bell?
Just completed my PPL(H) in R22 - yippy.
However I now live in Switzerland and want to convert my licence to fly something a bit bigger.
The nearest flying club is in Zurich and they have 2 types of helicopters:-
BELL JET RANGER 206B
EUROCOPTER EC120B "COLIBRI"
There is about a 80 quid price difference per hour - so is the Eurocopter worth the extra cash - it definately looks nicer
However I now live in Switzerland and want to convert my licence to fly something a bit bigger.
The nearest flying club is in Zurich and they have 2 types of helicopters:-
BELL JET RANGER 206B
EUROCOPTER EC120B "COLIBRI"
There is about a 80 quid price difference per hour - so is the Eurocopter worth the extra cash - it definately looks nicer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
From: Whitstable, UK
Hi
I advise make your decision based on insurance requirements... With no CPL you may not be able to fly one or either on low hours... Here in UK the EC120 is usually more restrictive... Normally on the 206 you need to gain 25hrs p1 before you can fly it on your own.... so you dont fry the engine..either on start or in flight. The Ec120 may be more restrictive...?
Please do let us know what you find out.
Please do let us know what you find out.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Switzerland
Oh Poo, thought I could do 5 hours training then take one up by myself - but I suppose turbine engines are a whole world of difference. Don't think my pay packet would stretch to 25hrs - 5 was going to break my bank as it is.
There doesn't seem to be many R22's or R44's around the place and my previous flying instructor (from military background) said they might be a bit low on power for all those mountains.
Will speak to the club and find out what needs to be done - thanks.
There doesn't seem to be many R22's or R44's around the place and my previous flying instructor (from military background) said they might be a bit low on power for all those mountains.
Will speak to the club and find out what needs to be done - thanks.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 447
Likes: 30
From: Europe
Don't worry about the mountains. You are not allowed to land above 1100m in Switzerland without a mountain license and then only on the official 42 landing sites. Therefore the R44 would be good enough.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
From: Whitstable, UK
R22
Poo indeed..
Yes and I would seriously make your next investment into mountain training. There's a lot going on... icing.. updraughts/downdraughts, cloud formation... turbulence.. escape routes.... cloud below.. vortex ring in 'level flight' in updraughts.... even strong updraughts catching out a lightweight guy low on fuel could conceivably push him up into cloud.
Always have an autorotatable escape route, 180 degree turning space and stay above 30 knots IAS.... All pinnacle approaches... abandon them unless lever is low, decent rate is low and you are into wind.
With proper training even the R22 is very capable. I did my mountain training in an R22 in New Zealand, e.g landing at 7700ft DA in snow. They sling venison at 5000ft+ there in the Robbie! It's not all about power.. as much as knowledge.....
Yes and I would seriously make your next investment into mountain training. There's a lot going on... icing.. updraughts/downdraughts, cloud formation... turbulence.. escape routes.... cloud below.. vortex ring in 'level flight' in updraughts.... even strong updraughts catching out a lightweight guy low on fuel could conceivably push him up into cloud.
Always have an autorotatable escape route, 180 degree turning space and stay above 30 knots IAS.... All pinnacle approaches... abandon them unless lever is low, decent rate is low and you are into wind.
With proper training even the R22 is very capable. I did my mountain training in an R22 in New Zealand, e.g landing at 7700ft DA in snow. They sling venison at 5000ft+ there in the Robbie! It's not all about power.. as much as knowledge.....
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 3
From: Escrick York england
k48
you need to get a decent insurance company then i know of private pilots in our gazelle share scheme that are training for their licences on gazelles they are abitio pilots they go through their training solo or dual the same as other pilots it involved us in a extra cost of £15 per hour on our existing insurance
steve
you need to get a decent insurance company then i know of private pilots in our gazelle share scheme that are training for their licences on gazelles they are abitio pilots they go through their training solo or dual the same as other pilots it involved us in a extra cost of £15 per hour on our existing insurance
steve
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
From: Whitstable, UK
Md 600
Hi Steve,
Say again..... can you give any more detail on that gazelle program/costs? How much to buy in and do you have any idea on how much a month in expenses and hourly contributions etc....
Chris
Say again..... can you give any more detail on that gazelle program/costs? How much to buy in and do you have any idea on how much a month in expenses and hourly contributions etc....
Chris
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 3
From: Escrick York england
you asked for this i hope its not seen as advertising this is for info only
1
initial payment
depends on helicopter but in all cases 6 shares I share being retained so only 5 are for sale at the outset
price guide
UK military 35k
N reg 341 42k
341g 50k
342 60k
342 65k
2
monthly fees to management company to include annual fees[authority costs]/hangarage/and insurance
£275 per month vat not yet but maybe required in future but if company owners buy shares it may be an advantage to charge vat ??
3
hourly fees to owners fund for maintenance and parts
to start at 200 per hour dry initially but may change in future depends on bills but this should cover it
this is a ring fenced fund nothing to do with management company
4
use of other aircraft it is envisaged that any owner will be able to use the other syndicates aircraft if their aircraft is not available for the hourly rate plus £30 to management company for expenses £230.
1
initial payment
depends on helicopter but in all cases 6 shares I share being retained so only 5 are for sale at the outset
price guide
UK military 35k
N reg 341 42k
341g 50k
342 60k
342 65k
2
monthly fees to management company to include annual fees[authority costs]/hangarage/and insurance
£275 per month vat not yet but maybe required in future but if company owners buy shares it may be an advantage to charge vat ??
3
hourly fees to owners fund for maintenance and parts
to start at 200 per hour dry initially but may change in future depends on bills but this should cover it
this is a ring fenced fund nothing to do with management company
4
use of other aircraft it is envisaged that any owner will be able to use the other syndicates aircraft if their aircraft is not available for the hourly rate plus £30 to management company for expenses £230.
Joined: Jul 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 57
From: UK
Chief Bottle Washer
Joined: Sep 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,257
Likes: 1,438
From: PPRuNe
B73,
Since there appears to be no reference or link to whoever the syndicate is, I have no problem with the information posted
I'm sure that anyone wanting to take it further will be able to PM md 600 driver if they want further information
Senior Pilot
Since there appears to be no reference or link to whoever the syndicate is, I have no problem with the information posted
I'm sure that anyone wanting to take it further will be able to PM md 600 driver if they want further information
Senior Pilot
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: Switzerland
I think my original post has been hijacked 
Can anyone tell me if there is any really difference in the 2 helicopters and which would be more fun to fly?
BELL JET RANGER 206B
EUROCOPTER EC120B "COLIBRI"
Thanks
Can anyone tell me if there is any really difference in the 2 helicopters and which would be more fun to fly?
BELL JET RANGER 206B
EUROCOPTER EC120B "COLIBRI"
Thanks
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: Saltsjöbaden, Sweden
206 or 120?
Well, I for one started with the basic opinion that the 206 is an old and dull helicopter. I changed my mind after about 25 hours on type. I only have a test ride in the EC120 but a type rating is on the horizon.
I guess there are a great number of 206's out there and it is definately a solid work-horse with a very good track record. From what I gather, it will give you about the same performance as the EC120, and for being from about 1964, it's a good looking helicopter - sort of the basic incarnation of the term helicopter itself.
I would spend my money on the Bell for the simple reason that it is cheaper, well established on the market, very reliable and always available.
Teetering rotors may have their disadvantages, but if you stay away from the dangerous conditions it can still be pretty fun to fly!
Greetings from up north,
/p
I guess there are a great number of 206's out there and it is definately a solid work-horse with a very good track record. From what I gather, it will give you about the same performance as the EC120, and for being from about 1964, it's a good looking helicopter - sort of the basic incarnation of the term helicopter itself.
I would spend my money on the Bell for the simple reason that it is cheaper, well established on the market, very reliable and always available.
Teetering rotors may have their disadvantages, but if you stay away from the dangerous conditions it can still be pretty fun to fly!
Greetings from up north,
/p
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 816
Likes: 5
From: Home
Since flying is a lot about feeling it is hard to describe.
You have to find out for yourself.
I have flown both types, 650+ to 200+ hours in favour of the Bell, and I like the 206 more, especially the Longranger.
Did anyone notice the different smell?
You have to find out for yourself.
I have flown both types, 650+ to 200+ hours in favour of the Bell, and I like the 206 more, especially the Longranger.
Did anyone notice the different smell?
