CPL IR
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CPL IR
looking for an answer.with a cpl last 2 years if i pass the ir written exam and pass the ir flight test, will that give a person a frozen atpl or a cpl ir, and is a cpl ir good enough for the operators in the north sea.
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You can't get beyond a CPL/IR without multi-crew experience. Forget about a 'frozen ATPL', there is no such thing. Your qualification is as much as you can get (unless you are the holder of a UK/CAA ATPL) and is no less than is required to get a position on the NS.
If I was ten years younger that's what I'd be doing.
If I was ten years younger that's what I'd be doing.
With a CPL(IR) you could get taken on by north sea operators, subject to requirements/suitability etc.
If you pass CPL and then also do IR theory exams and then complete an IR course and pass the IR flight test, you can later upgrade to ATPL once you have the necessary hours TT night/multi eng/ multi crew experience etc as you are deemed to have the ATPL theory covered.
If you pass CPL and then also do IR theory exams and then complete an IR course and pass the IR flight test, you can later upgrade to ATPL once you have the necessary hours TT night/multi eng/ multi crew experience etc as you are deemed to have the ATPL theory covered.
Ah but, the beater, if he doesn't have ATPL theory credits then a CPL/IR can never be 'made up' to an ATPL (regardless of the amount of multicrew time.)
If he went that route then he would have to take all of the ATPL exams at some point in the future. It is my understanding that the NS operators aren't keen on this scenario.
If he went that route then he would have to take all of the ATPL exams at some point in the future. It is my understanding that the NS operators aren't keen on this scenario.
They actually don't seem to care. If you have a CPL(H) and IR(H) then you're good to go. It's bums on seats.
Do the IR theory exams, 7 of them, and this automatically gives you the ATPL theory credit. Although i'm not sure if you could do the exams after finishing your flying course part of the IR and still use them towards the ATPL upgrade but personally I can't see why not.
Do the IR theory exams, 7 of them, and this automatically gives you the ATPL theory credit. Although i'm not sure if you could do the exams after finishing your flying course part of the IR and still use them towards the ATPL upgrade but personally I can't see why not.
Not any more, I'm afraid, helimutt. This changed under the last (and very recent) amendment to JAR-FCL2.
Oh SH*T!!! I was suckered into thinking LASORS 2007 Section G3.3was still correct. Theres no way on this earth i'm doing any more exams so I might as well look for another job now if I can't ever be a commander offshore. Wasting my time I guess.
all I can find is amendment 3, JAR FCL 2.285
can't seem to find appendix 1 anywhere!
all I can find is amendment 3, JAR FCL 2.285
can't seem to find appendix 1 anywhere!
Don't fret quite yet, helimutt. Because of the date of your exams and your IRT, you effectively qualify for 'grandfather rights' with regard to the theory credits. You should still qualify for an ATPL when you satisfy the various other requirements.
The amendment will only effect those who have still got to take their exams (or who now let their ATPL theory credits expire. ie Taking the IR exams will no longer reactivate ATPL theory credits.) Or, at least, that's my understanding of the situation.
PS 2007 LASORS was obviously published before this amendment came into force. And I think that it's the 'fifth amendment'.
The amendment will only effect those who have still got to take their exams (or who now let their ATPL theory credits expire. ie Taking the IR exams will no longer reactivate ATPL theory credits.) Or, at least, that's my understanding of the situation.
PS 2007 LASORS was obviously published before this amendment came into force. And I think that it's the 'fifth amendment'.
Last edited by Bravo73; 19th Sep 2007 at 20:12.
I'll take the fifth!!
I should be able to upgrade to ATPL after this winter so hopefully you are correct.
Don't you just love how simple this all is? After sitting 21 exams so far to go flying, i'm all 'examed out'!!!
I should be able to upgrade to ATPL after this winter so hopefully you are correct.
Don't you just love how simple this all is? After sitting 21 exams so far to go flying, i'm all 'examed out'!!!
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Do you hold a UK issued JAR CPL?
The UK CAA are still working with amendment 3 of JAR FCL 2. (You can confirm this in LASORS) see page 6 of lasors.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS_07.pdf
If you sit the 7 IR exams, do the flying part of the IR course and get the IR issued. You will hold a CPL(H)/IR with an ATPL(H)/IR Theory credit.
The ATPL(H) theory credit as far as I remember lasts 7 years from when you last held an IR. So as long as you keep renewing your IR your ATPL theory credit will not run out.
CPL(H)/IR is good enough to get a job as a first officer on the North Sea, When you gain the required multi crew hours the CAA will then issue an ATPL(H)/IR.
This is what I had to do, I advise getting this in writing from the CAA just in case it changes in the future, however if you start this while the CAA are still working with amendment 3 of JAR FCL 2 you will be able to complete things under the present rules even if/when they start using a latter edition of JAR FCL 2.
I had this confirmed in writing from the CAA.
The UK CAA are still working with amendment 3 of JAR FCL 2. (You can confirm this in LASORS) see page 6 of lasors.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS_07.pdf
If you sit the 7 IR exams, do the flying part of the IR course and get the IR issued. You will hold a CPL(H)/IR with an ATPL(H)/IR Theory credit.
The ATPL(H) theory credit as far as I remember lasts 7 years from when you last held an IR. So as long as you keep renewing your IR your ATPL theory credit will not run out.
CPL(H)/IR is good enough to get a job as a first officer on the North Sea, When you gain the required multi crew hours the CAA will then issue an ATPL(H)/IR.
This is what I had to do, I advise getting this in writing from the CAA just in case it changes in the future, however if you start this while the CAA are still working with amendment 3 of JAR FCL 2 you will be able to complete things under the present rules even if/when they start using a latter edition of JAR FCL 2.
I had this confirmed in writing from the CAA.
B73
Close its Amendment 6 (at least for some of the licensing issues, or is it amendment 3 + NPA 25), which I suppose you could call the '5th Amendment' if the original was amendment 1.
AIC 72/2007 explains it existence with 'These changes are contained in JAR-FCL 2, Amendment 6 (a corrigendum to Amendment 5)'.
The CAA say its amendment 3 according to http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...pe=87&gid=1211.
Dont you just love clarity.
Gary
PS Congrats on your recent achievement !
Close its Amendment 6 (at least for some of the licensing issues, or is it amendment 3 + NPA 25), which I suppose you could call the '5th Amendment' if the original was amendment 1.
AIC 72/2007 explains it existence with 'These changes are contained in JAR-FCL 2, Amendment 6 (a corrigendum to Amendment 5)'.
The CAA say its amendment 3 according to http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?ca...pe=87&gid=1211.
Dont you just love clarity.
Gary
PS Congrats on your recent achievement !
Thomas,
Those are indeed the old rules. However, Amendment 6 (
) has now come into force so CPL theory + IR theory no longer equals ATPL theory.
Which is the situation that the original poster is going to find himself in!
VNE,
Thanks.
Those are indeed the old rules. However, Amendment 6 (
) has now come into force so CPL theory + IR theory no longer equals ATPL theory. Which is the situation that the original poster is going to find himself in!
VNE,
Thanks.
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Hi Bravo
Thats not quite right, if his licence is issued by the UK CAA and he enrols on an IR theory course while the CAA are still using ammendment 3 of JAR FCL 2 then he can obtain his ATPL as per my previous post.
This said I would strongly advise getting this in writting.
TTTE.
Thats not quite right, if his licence is issued by the UK CAA and he enrols on an IR theory course while the CAA are still using ammendment 3 of JAR FCL 2 then he can obtain his ATPL as per my previous post.
This said I would strongly advise getting this in writting.
TTTE.
Yes, Thomas, but the UK CAA are now using Amendment 6. So it's too late for that...
Remember - 2007 LASORS was published in 2006. Amendment 6 only came into force a couple of months ago. So there is little point in referring to an 'old' LASORS for confirmation.
Remember - 2007 LASORS was published in 2006. Amendment 6 only came into force a couple of months ago. So there is little point in referring to an 'old' LASORS for confirmation.
manfromuncle,
You thought wrong, I'm afraid.
Here is AIC 72/2007 that VNE mentioned above:
http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aic/4W139.PDF
Please refer to paragraph 1.3. Amendment 6 came into force on 19th July 2007 (although, to be fair, there is a slightly 'grey area' until Jan 2008.)
You thought wrong, I'm afraid.
Here is AIC 72/2007 that VNE mentioned above:
http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aic/4W139.PDF
Please refer to paragraph 1.3. Amendment 6 came into force on 19th July 2007 (although, to be fair, there is a slightly 'grey area' until Jan 2008.)
