160thfan

I bet some of the guys loosing their blackhawks to fly this are complaining to the press. This all seems like a big nothing.

How many times do they ever carry 2 litters?

TwinHueyMan

"How many times do they ever carry 2 litters?"

Half of the times the Fort Irwin medevac came to our little dumpy FOB at the NTC, they picked up 2+ people. Thing is, you can't really properly treat more than 1 critical patient with 1 medic in the back of a Blackhawk, so the little EC that could isn't much of a downgrade. Hell its probably easier in the EC than it is with the stacking contraption they have in the back of those dilapidated retro 70's blackhawks they give us anyways.

-Mike

Alloa Akbar

Silsoesid

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against MD, its just that given certain situations in recent times, I could see why the military may have been influenced away from MD at the time of contract award. I appreciate that the contract was awarded on a whole list of criteria, but it would be incredibly naive to think that the alleged public shortcomings of MD as an OEM, albeit in the days before the gorgeous pouting Ms Tilton was in charge, would have a bearing on the decision. She talks tough, and I'm sure she does and will continue to do a fantastic job, but this time around, like it or not, MD were unsuccessful, thats all. If anything I admire her spirit for not taking the decision lying down.

AA

Bertie Thruster

I wonder if the heat problem in the 145's might be similar to to that experienced in the 135's operated in the middle east. Even with a/c the 135's avionics (efis, fadec and especially autopilot) don't seem to cope with the heat, even after only a few minutes flying.

.....tried a 902 the other day for 2.5hrs at 38' oat, no a/c, (felt about 45' in the cockpit) Everything worked fine.

reckless1967

'For 206B3, ISA, doors closed, below 3000 lbs comes to 105 kt Vne @ 10.000 msl'

From the EC145 FM:

10,000 MSL, +30c below 6,600 lbs...120kts
above 6,600 lbs...105kts

'They could have certainly proposed an a/c on the basic aircraft as part of their initial proposal but elected to leave this out to further increase their margins'
I know that at least two of the manufacturers (EC and Bell) proposed/recommended A/C and were told by the USA that it wasn't needed.

500e

Ok the air con MIGHT be marginally debatable, the procurement people say they don't want it, their choice.
But the medivac is a question of can 2 litters fit & medics do the required treatment yes or no? if no why was it chosen?? Grade A screw up maybe, but don't complain about airframe.

SASless

Some civilian 412 EMS aircraft are equipped to carry four patients. The standard crew is two medical personnel in the cabin thus they have an ability to handle more than one patient. The number of patients they can care for is predicated upon the severity of patients and the amount of care they require. I have carried a third medical crewmember when transporting two critical patients or when transporting a premature birth infant and a Isolette.

Excess capability beats lack of capability by far....and in time will cost less than the "cheap" way.

tottigol

SAS and I worked for the same program (alas not at the same time), he definetely knows that capability is often not meant to be used routinely. The two patients capability of the EC-145/H-72 is real, just ask any of the several programs that are actively using it for that purpose, to include Travis County EMS in Austin TX. These guys/gals have been using the EC-145 in a role as close as you are going to get in the Armed Forces, down to the use of rappeling,body armor, FLIR, NVGs and rescue hoist.
The STARFLIGHT program was smart enough to include airconditioning in their birds though, go figure.

http://www.starflightrescue.org/Rope...elicopters.htm
For the record, Eurocopter has already been testing a new five bladed rotor head for the EC-145, based on the EC-135 system.

maxtork

SASless,

While it may seem better to have excess capability in one machine you have to keep in mind the mission as well. These are not being operated like the typical commercial EMS vendor where you may be the only aircraft available for many miles and therefore you may need to be able to carry all or as many of the victims as possible at a scene. In the Army's case they have several of these aircraft based at the same location so they can dispatch more than one machine if there are multiple casualties. In this way you might actually be better off in that you have two medics in each ship caring for one patient instead of a one to one ratio if they doubled up the occupancy.

Also keep in mind that not all of these aircraft are going to be Medevac ships. In fact last I heard only about one quarter to one third will be such. Sure they could have opted for the worlds greatest EMS aircraft but what will suffer in the other roles the aircraft will perform?

Max

widgeon

Actually there was a spelling mistake in the RFQ that required the helicopter to take 2 liters.