Low flying question
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Low flying question
I hope no one minds, I am not a pilot or professional and I have joined to ask this question. Sorry to intrude but I don't know where else to ask.
Today my property on the Isle of Skye was overflown by a privately owned helicopter which flew within 50 feet of my house at the same level as the roof top. It then landed in a field adjacent to the hotel at the end of my access track only 25ft from the public road, about 40 ft from the power lines and about 150 ft from the hotel building. I have stock which was terrified by this and ran in all directions.
I wonder if someone could give me a simple opinion as to whether this flying was within CAA regulations. I am revealing no other details. The helicopter is still here tonight so I have to experience this all over again soon no doubt. I'm concerned that having done this once it could become a regular practice.
Brian Smith
Today my property on the Isle of Skye was overflown by a privately owned helicopter which flew within 50 feet of my house at the same level as the roof top. It then landed in a field adjacent to the hotel at the end of my access track only 25ft from the public road, about 40 ft from the power lines and about 150 ft from the hotel building. I have stock which was terrified by this and ran in all directions.
I wonder if someone could give me a simple opinion as to whether this flying was within CAA regulations. I am revealing no other details. The helicopter is still here tonight so I have to experience this all over again soon no doubt. I'm concerned that having done this once it could become a regular practice.
Brian Smith
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Yes, he was flying within CAA regulations. Read this for further clarification
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/224/Rule%2...il%202005a.pdf
3(a)(ii) is where you want to read.
Can I ask why, instead of walking over to the hotel, and asking to chat to the pilot to establish if there is maybe a better entry/exit path to the landing site, you are asking the question here?
Also, you seem very, very sure of your heights. Something thats been proven to be very difficult to judge if not trained in the same. Could you be wrong?
Seems more than a little 'off', frankly, to pursue it here rather than the gentlemans way of face to face over a malt.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/224/Rule%2...il%202005a.pdf
3(a)(ii) is where you want to read.
Can I ask why, instead of walking over to the hotel, and asking to chat to the pilot to establish if there is maybe a better entry/exit path to the landing site, you are asking the question here?
Also, you seem very, very sure of your heights. Something thats been proven to be very difficult to judge if not trained in the same. Could you be wrong?
Seems more than a little 'off', frankly, to pursue it here rather than the gentlemans way of face to face over a malt.
Last edited by Chukkablade; 29th Apr 2007 at 00:14.
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Hi Chukkablade
Thank you for you your clarification. I had already looked at this document but didn't know what was meant by normal aviation practice.
As for distances I have detailed photographic evidence of it's position on the ground. As for when it overflew, which was a suprise, we have only eyewitness accounts. As for heights though, it is very easy to estimate them when the aircraft in flight is sufficiently close to the building and to the power poles to be able to compare the dimensions directly. No experience is necessary.
I tried to approach the hotel owner as I didn't have access to the pilot. He told me not to disturb his serving of dinners over such a trivial matter. Win friends and influence people.
I'm sorry if I have upset anyone here. I wasn't intending to 'pursue' this matter here. I only came for expert advice. I have not disclosed any details which would identify anyone and would not.
Thank you for you your clarification. I had already looked at this document but didn't know what was meant by normal aviation practice.
As for distances I have detailed photographic evidence of it's position on the ground. As for when it overflew, which was a suprise, we have only eyewitness accounts. As for heights though, it is very easy to estimate them when the aircraft in flight is sufficiently close to the building and to the power poles to be able to compare the dimensions directly. No experience is necessary.
I tried to approach the hotel owner as I didn't have access to the pilot. He told me not to disturb his serving of dinners over such a trivial matter. Win friends and influence people.
I'm sorry if I have upset anyone here. I wasn't intending to 'pursue' this matter here. I only came for expert advice. I have not disclosed any details which would identify anyone and would not.
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Hi Dream Land
The aircraft made multiple passes at very low level as if unsure where it was supposed to land. The final approach was *very* low and close to the house. He had to lift to get over the next set of power lines. All our distibution is on poles here. How low does a small helicopter have to be to blow things over on the ground as it did to things close to the house?
Thanks for your advice. I had already left a message with the CAA but anything else will have to wait until they are at work on Monday.
The helicopter hasn't left yet and I would have a word with the pilot but it appears I'm not welcome on the hotel's grounds. If he flies over the house on leaving I'll get some proper photographic evidence.
Please understand I don't have it in for pilots or anything, normally I would be very pleased to have such great pictures of the machine and up here on the scottish islands, pilots and their helicopters provide an invaluable and greatly appreciated service. Occasionally though, people get things wrong.
I just want to make sure it doesn't happen the same way again.
Brian
The aircraft made multiple passes at very low level as if unsure where it was supposed to land. The final approach was *very* low and close to the house. He had to lift to get over the next set of power lines. All our distibution is on poles here. How low does a small helicopter have to be to blow things over on the ground as it did to things close to the house?
Thanks for your advice. I had already left a message with the CAA but anything else will have to wait until they are at work on Monday.
The helicopter hasn't left yet and I would have a word with the pilot but it appears I'm not welcome on the hotel's grounds. If he flies over the house on leaving I'll get some proper photographic evidence.
Please understand I don't have it in for pilots or anything, normally I would be very pleased to have such great pictures of the machine and up here on the scottish islands, pilots and their helicopters provide an invaluable and greatly appreciated service. Occasionally though, people get things wrong.
I just want to make sure it doesn't happen the same way again.
Brian
As for heights though, it is very easy to estimate them when the aircraft in flight is sufficiently close to the building and to the power poles to be able to compare the dimensions directly. No experience is necessary.
As to how low before blowing things around, it depends on the type of helicopter, its airspeed (lower speed=more downward blow, simply put) and the objects blown over. (weight/dimension of these.)
In our neck of the woods it's illegal to cause stock to stampede at worst, and damned inconsiderate at best. It does sound like he was a bit stuck for the most obvious or best approach path (they can hover straight down to a landing, but it's very dangerous to do that, and generally approach at anything between about a 3 and a thirty degree angle) and unfortunately, best on the day might have been over your house.
I totally agree with the others above, you should try and contact the operator to express your concern, and if reasonable attempts to do that fails, complain to the officials.
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In our neck of the woods it's illegal to cause stock to stampede at worst, and damned inconsiderate at best. It does sound like he was a bit stuck for the most obvious or best approach path (they can hover straight down to a landing, but it's very dangerous to do that, and generally approach at anything between about a 3 and a thirty degree angle) and unfortunately, best on the day might have been over your house.
Thanks for the comments markjoy
Brian
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CAA G - Info might help
Suggest you get in touch with the pilot by putting his registration through
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...ype=65&appid=1
As suggested before a nicely nicely approach would be best as I am sure you will appreciate. The pilot might not know that you have tried to get in touch with him even if the hotel have been difficult, so benefit of the doubt time... that said, any decent pilot will realise they have disturbed stock when they see them scattering in all directions.
That was the carrot approach.... The stick approach is to make sure he realises that regardless of whether someone follows the CAA rules of the air, insurance claims can and will happen if stock is injured in anyway. But as stressed, as soon as you get onto discussions of that nature, then any chance of a gentlemen's discussion is at an end. Use as last resort.
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...ype=65&appid=1
As suggested before a nicely nicely approach would be best as I am sure you will appreciate. The pilot might not know that you have tried to get in touch with him even if the hotel have been difficult, so benefit of the doubt time... that said, any decent pilot will realise they have disturbed stock when they see them scattering in all directions.
That was the carrot approach.... The stick approach is to make sure he realises that regardless of whether someone follows the CAA rules of the air, insurance claims can and will happen if stock is injured in anyway. But as stressed, as soon as you get onto discussions of that nature, then any chance of a gentlemen's discussion is at an end. Use as last resort.
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The pilot may not have been unsure of where to land, instead, was probably assessing the area/approach for possibe hazards. Normally aircraft like to land into wind which allows for an easier and more stable approach and your house may have indeed been downwind of the landing area.
Even so, I feel the pilot needs to know the disruption his approach has caused. Maybe you could keep trying the hotel? Surely they can't be so unfriendly?!
Even so, I feel the pilot needs to know the disruption his approach has caused. Maybe you could keep trying the hotel? Surely they can't be so unfriendly?!
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The "best" approach is almost always the one into the wind. When landing off airport when there is no windsock, one usually orbits the landing site at a low enough level to tell which way the wind is blowing (the side of the orbit closest to the site shows which direction the wind is pushing you). This is necessary and safe practice. This is all part of "landing... with normal aviation practice." I would not pursue this with the CAA if I were you. I doubt the pilot knows he wronged you. You can look up the registration online, and contact the pilot through the aircraft's owners.
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xrdbear
If you're really want to do something about it, even though this was the only helicopter to land there in 3 years, then contact the helicopter owner direct and convey your concerns. The link to the list of aircraft owners has already been posted.
You say you came here to ask for advice, but it turns out you'd already left a message at the CAA. You don't say if that was to ask them the relevant rules or to report the incident and give the helicopter registration.
If you are pursuing the matter with the CAA as a complaint, then it's not appropriate to discuss it further here.
Heliport
BTW, although Dream Land was quick to give you his "advice" and referred to "everyone", he is not a helicopter pilot. That was his first post in this forum.
It's fine by me if it's his last.
If you're really want to do something about it, even though this was the only helicopter to land there in 3 years, then contact the helicopter owner direct and convey your concerns. The link to the list of aircraft owners has already been posted.
You say you came here to ask for advice, but it turns out you'd already left a message at the CAA. You don't say if that was to ask them the relevant rules or to report the incident and give the helicopter registration.
If you are pursuing the matter with the CAA as a complaint, then it's not appropriate to discuss it further here.
Heliport
BTW, although Dream Land was quick to give you his "advice" and referred to "everyone", he is not a helicopter pilot. That was his first post in this forum.
It's fine by me if it's his last.
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Extract from a message I received from xrdbear:
Hi Heliport
I don't know if you can now but I would have liked it if you could add a final post to the thread thanking the others for their help and advice.
Since they seem so hostile (they have been toward other neighbours on other matters) I will write to the hotel suggesting that they advise anyone planning to fly to the hotel in future what direction to approach from.
There is a considerable angle over which they can approach which avoids the immediate obstacles and also avoids overflying the nearby properties.
I will not pursue this through the CAA as you advise unless there are problems in the future.
Best Regards.
I don't know if you can now but I would have liked it if you could add a final post to the thread thanking the others for their help and advice.
Since they seem so hostile (they have been toward other neighbours on other matters) I will write to the hotel suggesting that they advise anyone planning to fly to the hotel in future what direction to approach from.
There is a considerable angle over which they can approach which avoids the immediate obstacles and also avoids overflying the nearby properties.
I will not pursue this through the CAA as you advise unless there are problems in the future.
Best Regards.
