Age Discrimination: Fighting the CAA! (+ update)
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Age discrimination
Hallo Ian,
Not sure if you picked up my offer to write a piece on the age issue in the next helicopter edition of Loop, possibly both issues.
If you feel it would help just say the word.
Hopefully all our pprune 'pledgers' are standing by for bank or address details to assist the fund. To re-affirm my £500 pledge
Lads and ladesses ... please dig deep to support an important principle for our industry.
Happy Christmas to all.
Dennis Kenyon.
Not sure if you picked up my offer to write a piece on the age issue in the next helicopter edition of Loop, possibly both issues.
If you feel it would help just say the word.
Hopefully all our pprune 'pledgers' are standing by for bank or address details to assist the fund. To re-affirm my £500 pledge
Lads and ladesses ... please dig deep to support an important principle for our industry.
Happy Christmas to all.
Dennis Kenyon.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Hello there Uncle Ian,
Thanks for carrying this torch for us, I have a way to go before it effects me but I hope you kick the CAA into touch for when I get to this problem age!
If you can set up a PAYPAL account and then post the email address for which the PAYPAL account is attached I will gladly send some of my pennies. Its quite easy to set up and it would make it really easy for many to donate.
Cheers
Flash
Thanks for carrying this torch for us, I have a way to go before it effects me but I hope you kick the CAA into touch for when I get to this problem age!
If you can set up a PAYPAL account and then post the email address for which the PAYPAL account is attached I will gladly send some of my pennies. Its quite easy to set up and it would make it really easy for many to donate.
Cheers
Flash
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Thanks to all of you for your continued, and increasing, support. I'm looking at PayPal with Whirlygig (who will be your insurance that all the money goes where it's supposed to) right now.
Look here after the New Year and we'll have something in place by then, I hope.
Ian
Look here after the New Year and we'll have something in place by then, I hope.
Ian
Last edited by uncle ian; 20th Dec 2007 at 16:24.
The Original Whirly
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I didn't say earlier due to a fairly dire financial situation, but I'll donate £100...I'm nearly as old as you and I really, really appreciate what you're doing!
The Original Whirly
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pepi72,
Have you never heard of personal choice and individual differences?
In other words, why should I have to give up work at 60 because YOU want or have to? Or vice-versa?
Earlier this year a woman of 66 flew a helicopter round the world via both poles, gaining a world record. About three years ago her husband, at roughly the same age, walked to the South Pole. OLD?????
Let medical examinations decide fitness to fly, not the CAA, calendars and younger people's prejudices. It's the only logical way to do things.
Have you never heard of personal choice and individual differences?
In other words, why should I have to give up work at 60 because YOU want or have to? Or vice-versa?
Earlier this year a woman of 66 flew a helicopter round the world via both poles, gaining a world record. About three years ago her husband, at roughly the same age, walked to the South Pole. OLD?????
Let medical examinations decide fitness to fly, not the CAA, calendars and younger people's prejudices. It's the only logical way to do things.
This is my last post on the subject.
A lot smarter people than you and me made the rules and on the face of it they seem logical. Most of the people i know (with the exception of a handful) over 60 have all lost a lot of what made them great pilots when they were younger. Lifes a bitch but we've just got to accept it.
flungdung&Whirlybird and all the other over 60 wantoflytillidie blokes out their a question: How many of you tried to support your mates, colleagues who have been forced to retire at at 58 or 60 over the last 30 years??????
A lot smarter people than you and me made the rules and on the face of it they seem logical. Most of the people i know (with the exception of a handful) over 60 have all lost a lot of what made them great pilots when they were younger. Lifes a bitch but we've just got to accept it.
flungdung&Whirlybird and all the other over 60 wantoflytillidie blokes out their a question: How many of you tried to support your mates, colleagues who have been forced to retire at at 58 or 60 over the last 30 years??????
How many years ago was the criteria established and what is the average life expectancy now?
If over 60 and you can still pass a line check then you've obviously not lost your skills.
Times change, for someone so young I'm surprised you didn't notice that.
Hovering AND talking
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Originally Posted by pepi72
flungdung&Whirlybird and all the other over 60 wantoflytillidie blokes out their a question: How many of you tried to support your mates, colleagues who have been forced to retire at at 58 or 60 over the last 30 years??????
Please do not hijack a thread of which the sole purpose is for people to pledge their support to Uncle Ian. Start your own thread if you think it's a reasonable subject (although it's been done to death before and the ageist brigade usually lose badly).
Cheers
Whirls
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Whirls,
If it really was his/her last post, let it slide - notwithstanding dearly held principles of freedom of speech, further debate is only sidetracking from the core issue, that of generating some support for Ian on a matter upon which we CHOOSE to take a particular position.
Anyway, youth and enthusiam is still no match for age and duplicity!!
Keep us posted on the financial side of things, will you?!!
Merry Xmas, all!
If it really was his/her last post, let it slide - notwithstanding dearly held principles of freedom of speech, further debate is only sidetracking from the core issue, that of generating some support for Ian on a matter upon which we CHOOSE to take a particular position.
Anyway, youth and enthusiam is still no match for age and duplicity!!
Keep us posted on the financial side of things, will you?!!
Merry Xmas, all!
Join Date: Nov 2003
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AA,
Started Commercial flying at 30. Now 34 flying UK onshore IFR.
IMHO the rules should be changed for all the reasons given.
I fly with a couple of guys nearing 60 and their experience is invaluable.
As I see it, if you can still be a brain surgeon at 60 then you should still be able to be a pilot ( so long as medically fit and able to pass the required opc/lpc)
FW
Started Commercial flying at 30. Now 34 flying UK onshore IFR.
IMHO the rules should be changed for all the reasons given.
I fly with a couple of guys nearing 60 and their experience is invaluable.
As I see it, if you can still be a brain surgeon at 60 then you should still be able to be a pilot ( so long as medically fit and able to pass the required opc/lpc)
FW
Fund raiser?
Have ideas been discussed for fund raising?
The internet offers a new way of fund raising. http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/
This site provides a gateway between a purchaser and a retailer where the retailer makes a donation on every online purchase without apparently any increase in the price of the goods.
Shop online at your favourite store via this portal and "Uncle Ian's" fund will get either a % or a flat fee.
500 companies are participating from Amazon to Zurich Insurance, Tesco Direct, Virgin, Currys John Lewis ect.
Also special deals like Marks and Sparks are offering 3% donation until Christmas.
They have thousands of members consisting of charities sporting and community groups and "good causes" as well as individuals.
Mickjoebill
The internet offers a new way of fund raising. http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/
This site provides a gateway between a purchaser and a retailer where the retailer makes a donation on every online purchase without apparently any increase in the price of the goods.
Shop online at your favourite store via this portal and "Uncle Ian's" fund will get either a % or a flat fee.
500 companies are participating from Amazon to Zurich Insurance, Tesco Direct, Virgin, Currys John Lewis ect.
Also special deals like Marks and Sparks are offering 3% donation until Christmas.
They have thousands of members consisting of charities sporting and community groups and "good causes" as well as individuals.
Mickjoebill
Effective legislation
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Agincourt,
For the record and as the spotlight is very much on me................
I started Military flying aged 25; commercial aged 30. I've been at it for 35 years and don't want to stop for any number of reasons but mostly because I still love it and firmly believe it's fundamently wrong to be stopped from doing it by an arbitrary decision made, not for medical but for socio-political reasons, in 1960.
OK?
Ian Evans
For the record and as the spotlight is very much on me................
I started Military flying aged 25; commercial aged 30. I've been at it for 35 years and don't want to stop for any number of reasons but mostly because I still love it and firmly believe it's fundamently wrong to be stopped from doing it by an arbitrary decision made, not for medical but for socio-political reasons, in 1960.
OK?
Ian Evans
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Agincourt,
I'm one of those who totally support Ian. I started military flying at age 20 and commercial flying at age 30. I've been at it for 42 years and I wish to continue for many reasons: I still love what I'm doing and somehow, despite being an old git, seem able to pass OPCs and sim rides on 2 types; being another of aviation's divorce casualties, I need to keep working for financial reasons (gone are the days of imagining my retirement at age 58 in a rural French idyll
); I fundamentally disagree with decisions made arbitrarily on the basis of age, with no account being taken of the physical and mental health of the individual - after all, it's not as if each of us has the same fixed time to walk this earth and suddenly at a government-decreed age we pop our clogs (though with our present Nanny state and the parlous condition of the state pension scheme, maybe they'd like to build a nice little people-reprocessing plant at Soylent Green 
).
I'm one of those who totally support Ian. I started military flying at age 20 and commercial flying at age 30. I've been at it for 42 years and I wish to continue for many reasons: I still love what I'm doing and somehow, despite being an old git, seem able to pass OPCs and sim rides on 2 types; being another of aviation's divorce casualties, I need to keep working for financial reasons (gone are the days of imagining my retirement at age 58 in a rural French idyll
); I fundamentally disagree with decisions made arbitrarily on the basis of age, with no account being taken of the physical and mental health of the individual - after all, it's not as if each of us has the same fixed time to walk this earth and suddenly at a government-decreed age we pop our clogs (though with our present Nanny state and the parlous condition of the state pension scheme, maybe they'd like to build a nice little people-reprocessing plant at Soylent Green ).
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Agincourt,
When two laws are in direct conflict, in this case Age Discrimination and the ANO, it should not be left to any individual to risk impoverishment in challenging a Government which should, itself, resolve the conflict.
Judicial Review, the proper way to resolve such conflicts in Law, would cost upwards of £200,000 and the loser might have to bear all of that. The route I'm taking is the risk managed route where costs may not be awarded against either party and one's own costs are, to some extent, under control. I think it is utterly shameful of the CAA to await my [or anyone else's] challenge when they have understood all along the matter would go to Court if they did not change the ANO.
Enough of my colleagues in the indusrty agree with me and are happy to lend moral and financial support to make the action I'm taking possible. Of course you are entitled to state your views here, that's what the forum is for, but I do hope you'll let us know when you change your mind; my bet is that'll be when you're in your late fifties and realise that you're not half dead after all.
Happy Christmas,
Uncle Ian
When two laws are in direct conflict, in this case Age Discrimination and the ANO, it should not be left to any individual to risk impoverishment in challenging a Government which should, itself, resolve the conflict.
Judicial Review, the proper way to resolve such conflicts in Law, would cost upwards of £200,000 and the loser might have to bear all of that. The route I'm taking is the risk managed route where costs may not be awarded against either party and one's own costs are, to some extent, under control. I think it is utterly shameful of the CAA to await my [or anyone else's] challenge when they have understood all along the matter would go to Court if they did not change the ANO.
Enough of my colleagues in the indusrty agree with me and are happy to lend moral and financial support to make the action I'm taking possible. Of course you are entitled to state your views here, that's what the forum is for, but I do hope you'll let us know when you change your mind; my bet is that'll be when you're in your late fifties and realise that you're not half dead after all.
Happy Christmas,
Uncle Ian
Hovering AND talking
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and increasing age does become a barrier for some of the things I'd like to play with.
Cheers
Whirls