Helicopter pilot saves fixed-wing pilot - Unbelievable sequel! (NOW UPDATED)
SASless, I take your point about the amateur rescue aspect - I have been involved in similar scenarios at sea. But. This would seem to be a case of a pilot hearing a MAYDAY broadcast, finds himself in the area, has a look, sees the casualty with no-one in assistance so he does the right thing in landing and assisting.
Granted, ferrying the para may be an issue, caught up in the moment etc. but certainly responding to the initial request for help should be assumed duty no?
CP sounds like a T*T IMHO. There are bound to have been easier ways to deal with the off course aspects of this.
Granted, ferrying the para may be an issue, caught up in the moment etc. but certainly responding to the initial request for help should be assumed duty no?
CP sounds like a T*T IMHO. There are bound to have been easier ways to deal with the off course aspects of this.
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As a fixed wing student, I would be at the least releived if someone came to my aid like this guy. Can I suggest a nomination to the CAA for the annual safety award, as well as the awards that various magazines run. All power to the FI, a job well very well done, and I imagine the student did learn something that day, extra to the syllabus and worthwhile.
This, in my opinion, is airmanship of the highest order and all power to the FI concerned. As for the CP, is he actually a pilot or does he fly a desk???
Awards should be given out, to the FI for such a great act, and to the CP for "Pratt of the year". A CAA endorsement of the FI's activities should wind the CP's neck in nicely!!!
This, in my opinion, is airmanship of the highest order and all power to the FI concerned. As for the CP, is he actually a pilot or does he fly a desk???
Awards should be given out, to the FI for such a great act, and to the CP for "Pratt of the year". A CAA endorsement of the FI's activities should wind the CP's neck in nicely!!!
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Already started
Maybe one of the moderators could fix this. This thread started a few days ago,
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=255777
Interesting report from another pilot that flew overhead and heard the pilot's calls whilst upside down...
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=255777
Interesting report from another pilot that flew overhead and heard the pilot's calls whilst upside down...
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Let's get the facts straight
Now - tell me who you know that is both a FI (Heli) AND a highly trained trained Nurse? .... Go on .... Who do you know?
Well - now you do - cos it's him.
So to those who might question this particular FI's ability to deal with this crisis - cos it was a crisis - it just so happens there is NO better pilot in the UK who is trained, qualified and experienced to actually deal with that on the ground. P.S. his nursing speciality is wound care.
Put me in an upside down aircraft in a ploughed filed - and it's HIM I want on the scene - RIGHT NOW. Oh yes - and I neary forgot - half a tank of fuel somewhere sloshing around.
If the company insist on him paying for the unathorized flight I will be writing to the company and asking them to bill me direct.
Now THAT will be an interesting piece of paper to have if they send me the bill.
I feel sure there MUST be some misunderstanding on behalf of the company - isn't there?
Well - now you do - cos it's him.
So to those who might question this particular FI's ability to deal with this crisis - cos it was a crisis - it just so happens there is NO better pilot in the UK who is trained, qualified and experienced to actually deal with that on the ground. P.S. his nursing speciality is wound care.
Put me in an upside down aircraft in a ploughed filed - and it's HIM I want on the scene - RIGHT NOW. Oh yes - and I neary forgot - half a tank of fuel somewhere sloshing around.
If the company insist on him paying for the unathorized flight I will be writing to the company and asking them to bill me direct.
Now THAT will be an interesting piece of paper to have if they send me the bill.
I feel sure there MUST be some misunderstanding on behalf of the company - isn't there?
Red On, Green On
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whats the difference between a nurse and a paramedic?
Paramedic - trained only to care for patients in the first couple of hours of their medical emergency - career progression is into team management.
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disgusting
I find the very notion that one should NOT attempt to help someone in an accident simply beyond belief. Setting all legal niceties aside, who does this CP think he is ? God ? Honestly, people like that make my blood boil. One also has to question his character - does somebody like that really belong in a cockpit ? I think not.
As an aside, AFAIK it would also be illegal NOT to respond to a Mayday call (or to just drive past a road accident, for that matter).
SASless - I hope you never need help after an accident. It might just be that soneone who thinks like you stands idly by while you die. While there is a point in not moving injured/unconscious accident victims if you are not a pro, you cannot extrapolate that to all and any circumstance. You SHOULD at least attempt to help. I certainly would.
In any case, kudos to the FI in question, very, very well done - BRAVO
As an aside, AFAIK it would also be illegal NOT to respond to a Mayday call (or to just drive past a road accident, for that matter).
SASless - I hope you never need help after an accident. It might just be that soneone who thinks like you stands idly by while you die. While there is a point in not moving injured/unconscious accident victims if you are not a pro, you cannot extrapolate that to all and any circumstance. You SHOULD at least attempt to help. I certainly would.
In any case, kudos to the FI in question, very, very well done - BRAVO
SASless - I hope you never need help after an accident. It might just be that soneone who thinks like you stands idly by while you die. While there is a point in not moving injured/unconscious accident victims if you are not a pro, you cannot extrapolate that to all and any circumstance. You SHOULD at least attempt to help. I certainly would.
How did I suggest what you purport?
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It is not inconsistent to consider the FI may have wrongfully assumed a rescue function that he was not properly trained, equipped, or tasked to do. We have had many instances of professional SAR crews lamblasting such amateur efforts even when the non-professional intervention saved lives.
Perhaps Craab will jump in here and re-iterate all the reasons he has posted in the past which would validate the dangers that such non-professional SAR acts pose to the public?
Perhaps Craab will jump in here and re-iterate all the reasons he has posted in the past which would validate the dangers that such non-professional SAR acts pose to the public?
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172driver
Sasless's sarcasm completely missed you. You wouldnt have got it unless you have been reading these pages for ever! Sasless is one of the good guys. (usually)
edit: or is it just that fixed wing guys dont do humour?
Sasless's sarcasm completely missed you. You wouldnt have got it unless you have been reading these pages for ever! Sasless is one of the good guys. (usually)
edit: or is it just that fixed wing guys dont do humour?
Gas....
Perhaps he did not get all the way down to this part of my post.
Perhaps he did not get all the way down to this part of my post.
If the FI has to pay for the flight time incurred or re-fuelling charges....count me in on the Whip Round to help him pay the bill!
Sounds to me like a certain CP needs his hind end firmly kicked....repeatedly!
The FI acted like a true Helicopter Pilot should....Bravo, Lad!
Sounds to me like a certain CP needs his hind end firmly kicked....repeatedly!
The FI acted like a true Helicopter Pilot should....Bravo, Lad!
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As the Mods seem happy.............
Situation presented to FI was a MayDay call heard. Circling fixed wing overhead the scene reported the aircraft upside down and no pilot seen. Police/ambulance heli was unavailable to attend and so the FI diverted. Scene was large enough for a safe approach and landing to be made. It took all three aircraft occupants to move the aircraft so that the fixed wing pilot could be released. This involvement was not a knee-jerk reaction. The FI was the nearest who could respond.
FI is an Ex military (RM) medic with frontline trauma treatment experience. His nursing qualifications extend to him being able to offer more specialist recovery care. He is more than qualified and experienced to have been able to have provided the treatment required.
The Chief pilot has submitted an MOR to the CAA and the Ops Inspector concerned has agreed that the return flight from the field to EGHR was AOC
.
Initial request from the CP was for the Fi to pay approx £125. This has since been reduced to approx £30. Whatever the costs involved the motive of the CP to actively look for some matter that could be reported to the CAA is alarming. And regardless of the money involved the meer suggestion is shameful! No FI can afford to lose any wages at this time of year!
The positive free publicity generated as a result fo this matter should far outway any flying costs incurred. Adverts in atleast three newspapers would easily cost more then £125.
As the Mods have no issues with details being aired. London Heli's at Redhill are the company invloved and the Chief Pilot concerned is Mark Cuttle.
I add at this point the FI spoke to me in some despair as he was concerned about the CAA throwing the book at him. The decision to air this matter is mine and mine alone.
FW
Situation presented to FI was a MayDay call heard. Circling fixed wing overhead the scene reported the aircraft upside down and no pilot seen. Police/ambulance heli was unavailable to attend and so the FI diverted. Scene was large enough for a safe approach and landing to be made. It took all three aircraft occupants to move the aircraft so that the fixed wing pilot could be released. This involvement was not a knee-jerk reaction. The FI was the nearest who could respond.
FI is an Ex military (RM) medic with frontline trauma treatment experience. His nursing qualifications extend to him being able to offer more specialist recovery care. He is more than qualified and experienced to have been able to have provided the treatment required.
The Chief pilot has submitted an MOR to the CAA and the Ops Inspector concerned has agreed that the return flight from the field to EGHR was AOC
.Initial request from the CP was for the Fi to pay approx £125. This has since been reduced to approx £30. Whatever the costs involved the motive of the CP to actively look for some matter that could be reported to the CAA is alarming. And regardless of the money involved the meer suggestion is shameful! No FI can afford to lose any wages at this time of year!
The positive free publicity generated as a result fo this matter should far outway any flying costs incurred. Adverts in atleast three newspapers would easily cost more then £125.
As the Mods have no issues with details being aired. London Heli's at Redhill are the company invloved and the Chief Pilot concerned is Mark Cuttle.
I add at this point the FI spoke to me in some despair as he was concerned about the CAA throwing the book at him. The decision to air this matter is mine and mine alone.
FW
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Flying Lawer I would also like to thankyou for being such a gentleman. I have nothing to do with this case. But as an ex instructor I can imagine the despair and worry that any contact with the CAA would bring.
If there was any justice in the world this incident should propel said FI up his career ladder. Ex RM medic, good command thinking what a catch.
I would dearly like to see posted that the FI had been offered a better job and could tell the CP to stick his job up his arse.
A MOR is a manditory occurance report. There are a list of situations which you have to submit a form to the CAA informing them of what happend.
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...etail&nid=1343
The above link explains it better than I could.
If there was any justice in the world this incident should propel said FI up his career ladder. Ex RM medic, good command thinking what a catch.
I would dearly like to see posted that the FI had been offered a better job and could tell the CP to stick his job up his arse.
A MOR is a manditory occurance report. There are a list of situations which you have to submit a form to the CAA informing them of what happend.
http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...etail&nid=1343
The above link explains it better than I could.
Red On, Green On
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The FI is quoted as having been a nurse, and may still be registered as one. It is entirely possible that his nursing registration requires him to offer Good Samaritan assistance if he encounters a person in a medical emergency.
I reckon some well meaning Bureaucrat at the CAA will now peer thickly at the sheer letter of the law and find it necessary to shine his Rice Bowl and make an alpine event out of this.
Reckon the airplane driver is in the poop for not having land owner's permission to land?
I don't reckon "intent" nor commonsense ever enters into these kinds of situations!
Look back to the American who rescued several folks in Utah during a flood there....then did some charity rides to raise money for the victims....only to be done by the ******s in the FAA office for that area.
After thousands of letters, numerous editorials, news articles, and TV programs, and intervention by several Congressmen....they let him off with a stern lecture and a couple of years probation. (So kind and benevolent of them it was! )
Reckon the airplane driver is in the poop for not having land owner's permission to land?
I don't reckon "intent" nor commonsense ever enters into these kinds of situations!
Look back to the American who rescued several folks in Utah during a flood there....then did some charity rides to raise money for the victims....only to be done by the ******s in the FAA office for that area.
After thousands of letters, numerous editorials, news articles, and TV programs, and intervention by several Congressmen....they let him off with a stern lecture and a couple of years probation. (So kind and benevolent of them it was!
)
I have picked up firemen and taken them to the top of a hill that was on fire...A) to save them a long walk and B) so they could see what was going on from above and where it was heading . I certainly couldnt give a flying **** what the CAA would make of it !!! All pilots are trained to do off airfield landings safely and once on the ground you do not need any special skills to get a person out of an aircraft if it is going to burn!!! What utter B*****ks . As for the CP he really needs to get a life and stand up for the FI. What is this country coming to ....
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Bloody Disgusting!
Many years ago, and a totally different scenario (albeit very close to Shoreham Airport!) and a very sane approach by "the authorities" . . .
Myself, and some friends, who hold UK "Ham" radio licenses, took part in a charity "bath-tub race", starting some 4 miles up-river from Shoreham Airport.
Just before the start, a spectator had a heart attack (or something similar) on the other bank and I dove into the river to swim across and the guy was definitely in need of emergency help.
In those days, there were no cell-phones, and a sprint to the nearest house, and the time taken to borrow a phone, would have been quite long, so I yelled at my pal on the other bank to shout for help on his "ham" vhf gear.
(we took part in the event as a ham group ("Raynet"),and were raising charity money via hams we contacted while afloat)
My pal got a shore-based fellow ham to put in a 999 call and an ambulance was soon in attendance. However, this was illegal according to the UK RT act - Hams cannot pass messages on behalf of any "third party".
My pal (who was embarrassingly employed as an "enforcer" by the UK Post Office, at that time the regulatory body for radio communications!) duly wrote an apology to the "Authority" HQ, admitting his "sin". He received a letter back saying that "Yes, he did commit an offense under The Act, and please don't do it again" (i.e. - between the lines - in the circumstances, we don't give a rat's @ss!)
Hopefully the CAA will view this "offense" in the same light - if there is any sanity.
Someone has probably done so already, but I will be dropping a line to the Brighton and Hove Evening Argus, directing them to this thread - a little "ad" on behalf of the heli company concerned may not go amiss!
I'm relieved to note that Southern Flight Centre (who are fixed-wing) is in no way involved - or I'd have to find another school when I occasionally can afford to fly a C152 - any "budding helo pilots", please not the other company at Shoreham mentioned above, and take your business elsewhere!
Myself, and some friends, who hold UK "Ham" radio licenses, took part in a charity "bath-tub race", starting some 4 miles up-river from Shoreham Airport.
Just before the start, a spectator had a heart attack (or something similar) on the other bank and I dove into the river to swim across and the guy was definitely in need of emergency help.
In those days, there were no cell-phones, and a sprint to the nearest house, and the time taken to borrow a phone, would have been quite long, so I yelled at my pal on the other bank to shout for help on his "ham" vhf gear.
(we took part in the event as a ham group ("Raynet"),and were raising charity money via hams we contacted while afloat)
My pal got a shore-based fellow ham to put in a 999 call and an ambulance was soon in attendance. However, this was illegal according to the UK RT act - Hams cannot pass messages on behalf of any "third party".
My pal (who was embarrassingly employed as an "enforcer" by the UK Post Office, at that time the regulatory body for radio communications!) duly wrote an apology to the "Authority" HQ, admitting his "sin". He received a letter back saying that "Yes, he did commit an offense under The Act, and please don't do it again" (i.e. - between the lines - in the circumstances, we don't give a rat's @ss!)
Hopefully the CAA will view this "offense" in the same light - if there is any sanity.
Someone has probably done so already, but I will be dropping a line to the Brighton and Hove Evening Argus, directing them to this thread - a little "ad" on behalf of the heli company concerned may not go amiss!
I'm relieved to note that Southern Flight Centre (who are fixed-wing) is in no way involved - or I'd have to find another school when I occasionally can afford to fly a C152 - any "budding helo pilots", please not the other company at Shoreham mentioned above, and take your business elsewhere!
Avoid imitations
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If the circumstances are as reported, the CP has totally mishandled this sitiuation. IMHO, he should have publicly praised his FI, the company would then have gained a lot of free publicity, of the best type there is!
Instead, now look what he's done........
The CAA may not have given a jot, but for his ill advised submission of an MOR. As for demanding payment from the hero himself - WHAT is this country coming to? I despair.
I too will chip in for a whip round if needed, as a point of principle.
Instead, now look what he's done........
The CAA may not have given a jot, but for his ill advised submission of an MOR. As for demanding payment from the hero himself - WHAT is this country coming to? I despair.
I too will chip in for a whip round if needed, as a point of principle.