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What are the job prospects for new CPLs? (MERGED)

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What are the job prospects for new CPLs? (MERGED)

Old 5th Oct 2016, 12:52
  #321 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 18 Degrees North
Posts: 695
The more I look into it the more my dream gets crushed to bits. You get one shot at this life and to spend £85k on a job where you might end up on £25k is just bloody awful. Im better off flying as a qualified PPL pilot as a hobby and enjoying flying whilst earning a nice salary as a salesman. This is the reality. Sad but true?! Someone please convince me otherwise.
well thats not strictly true, you have quite a good chance of getting the £25k, and you have some chance of becoming a north sea co-pilot (depending on your timing) getting £50k and ultimately £100k after years of experience / command etc.

but its all about percentages and as time has gone by its become an increasingly difficult path to follow, for example CHC paid my IR for me but that was 15 years ago and now there is no chance of that, and right now plenty of highly experienced guys have no work and some have no prospects either, and many others are on short term contracts or freelance where once they were permanent, basically its all gone a bit rubbish in the last 2 years.

right now getting the ATPL(A) seems like a much better plan to me, so please follow your dream, but remember we did tell you what its like at the beginning.

p.s ask your instructor how much he earns and what is he trying to do and how it all worked out for him
Camp Freddie is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2016, 22:50
  #322 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: S/E England, UK.
Posts: 27
Hi ChrisPike.

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you are. Planning PPL(H), hour building, CPL(H) and FI, then IR if funds allow.


This thread is pretty interesting reading about how the industry has been over the last 10 years.

Where are you learning currently?
Have you managed to get a competent accountant on board to help you out with VAT etc?

Hope you're getting on ok!
AlexJT is offline  
Old 2nd Sep 2021, 20:55
  #323 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Wales
Posts: 5
Hi All,
Been a long time lurker of this forum reading 100's of Q&A's gathering up information. Whilst I have learnt ALOT, I'm still missing something. if it has ben answered and I have missed it, feel free to point me to it, if not I hope someone can answer.

I have a good opportunity will a local trraining provider to do a PPL, hour building (including some additional training such as the london heli lanes), R44 type rating and then a CPL all for just under £50K. I can also get a type rating on a 206 jet ranger with them. the great part is the gaurantee paid flying work on an ad-hoc basis to help build hours.
Ideally i want to go HEMS and SAR and a ME rating and IR will cost another £60K. should i worry about doing this asap or wait ?

Thanks
Lurcheroo is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 10:43
  #324 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 2,542
Originally Posted by Lurcheroo View Post
..the great part is the gaurantee paid flying work on an ad-hoc basis to help build hours...
My spider-senses are tingling. Newly minted CPL hour building on a 206? I highly doubt it. Ask them what their insurance policy pilot minimum experience is for the 206. Find out who has gone before you and actually done what they have proposed for you to do. If you can't find any such person your spider-senses should be tingling too. In which case rethink that £50K.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 10:53
  #325 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Wales
Posts: 5
Hey, sorry, I wasn't super clear and that's on me. The paid flying work is stated to be on the R44 but they offer a 206 type rating also (I'm not sure if they offer work on this or not for new CPL pilots). However finding someone who has done this is still a good shout and I will find and speak to a few to see how it worked for them. and i'll also ask the school about the minimum experience for the insurance policy on the 206 as it would be handy to know.

What are your thoughts on getting an IR rating on a ME heli. Like I Said i really (in the long term is ok) fancy flying HEMS or SAR or even police, and I know they ask for a ME IR , I just dont want to spend the large sum of money to do nothing with it for so many years it becomes wasted. Do you think it is sensible to do a SE IR and convert to an ME later ? or even hold out and apply for jobs and be willing to pay for the MEIR if somewhere is willing to offer me a job that requires one ?
I appreciate there is no perfect solution but your opinion would be welcomed


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Old 3rd Sep 2021, 11:37
  #326 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 2,542
Originally Posted by Lurcheroo View Post
...What are your thoughts on getting an IR rating on a ME heli....or even hold out and apply for jobs and be willing to pay for the MEIR if somewhere is willing to offer me a job that requires one ?
It is often the case when an operator needs to hire a new pilot the phone call goes something like this: 'We need somebody yesterday, when can you start?". That is not the time to start an IR course, either self-sponsored or with the operator, because time is then your enemy.
Don't think too much about all the various options now because it's all hypothetical. Find somebody they have made the same promises to and verify that they have delivered on those promises.
HEMS/SAR/POLICE. Ya' dreamin' All those career paths are 10+ years away for a newly minted CPL. Offshore is what you should have in mind and do a few years of co-pilot time.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 12:11
  #327 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Wales
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
It is often the case when an operator needs to hire a new pilot the phone call goes something like this: 'We need somebody yesterday, when can you start?". That is not the time to start an IR course, either self-sponsored or with the operator, because time is then your enemy.
Don't think too much about all the various options now because it's all hypothetical. Find somebody they have made the same promises to and verify that they have delivered on those promises.
HEMS/SAR/POLICE. Ya' dreamin' All those career paths are 10+ years away for a newly minted CPL. Offshore is what you should have in mind and do a few years of co-pilot time.
Ok brilliant, appreciate the Advice !
I just noticed your profile says yours from NZ is it ever worth a UK PPL holder (or CPL) coming over to do some hour building in NZ , I only ask as my wife’s Aunt lives out there and keeps saying we should go visit for a few months and some of the scenery for heli flying looks incredible !
Lurcheroo is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 13:25
  #328 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Age: 52
Posts: 333
Originally Posted by Lurcheroo View Post
I only ask as my wife’s Aunt lives out there and keeps saying we should go visit for a few months and some of the scenery for heli flying looks incredible !
Went there for a month 20 years ago. Think about it every day. Don't leave earth without trying it.
Sir Korsky is online now  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 13:31
  #329 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 2,542
I have no concept of what "hour building" is because I haven't been at that end of the training pipeline for many years. When I did my CPL-H it could be done in 60 hours if you already had a PPL-A (from memory). There was no such thing as hour building because you spent all of that time (or more) learning the skills required to be proficient for the flight test. And then you had a licence and off you went to do piloting stuff in commercial operations. I don't see the point of punching holes in the sky for the sake of punching holes in the sky to pen a couple of hours in the log book. Unless the regulatory requirements today require a bit of sky hole punching. If that is the case, so be it. Doing it in NZ after the COVID difficulties have settled down might be a good option for you if you have a local connection.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 14:46
  #330 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
Posts: 3,139
Originally Posted by Lurcheroo View Post
Ideally i want to go HEMS and SAR and a ME rating and IR will cost another £60K. should i worry about doing this asap or wait ?
Will it? Now is the time to think about what you want to do and fully plan how you're going to get there.

Have you considered getting a PPL(A)? You should. Even if you don't want one. Let me explain...

If you've got an IR(A) and you want an IR(H) - the training is reduced to 10 hours. How much does a PPL(A)/IR cost? Now consider that a PPL(A) reduces your CPL(H) hours by 20. How much does 20 hours in a helicopter cost? Let's say you spend an extra £18k but save £8k - you've spent an extra £10k NET in the short term, but now you only need a ME type rating +10 hours IR. You could even get an SEIR on the 206L and be competitive for the North sea jobs (they type you anyway...)

Basically it's cheaper to get a CPL(H)/IR and a PPL(A)/IR than it is to just get the CPL(H)/IR.

Plus you've now got a new hobby. And a plan B for when the airline shortage pops up again!
rudestuff is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 20:21
  #331 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 2,542
Originally Posted by Lurcheroo View Post
..I just dont want to spend the large sum of money to do nothing with it for so many years it becomes wasted...
That is what might end up happening with just getting the basic licence let alone an instrument rating on top of that. Some people spend all that money and never end up in the right place at the right time to land a flying job. It's easy for others to spend your money. My thinking is getting a trade as the first step is far easier and far cheaper and far quicker and far more likely to end up with a job that provides a decent financial reward. And if you need to borrow the money for flight training my advice is don't.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2021, 20:33
  #332 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Wales
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by Sir Korsky View Post
Went there for a month 20 years ago. Think about it every day. Don't leave earth without trying it.
Thanks, I'll make sure i get to go

rudestuff, I'll have to have a look into that !

gullibell, I shall bare that in mind with even the standard license then. I guess I feel a bit more comfortable with the CPL as I 'should' (provided i can find people who can verify they do actually provide paid flying work) get some work flying with the centre I would train at. At the very least I can go and fly for fun on my license. I'm fortunate and have a pretty good job in manufacturing engineering with good prospects for climbing the ladder for atleast the next 5 years. So i guess I'll bide my time a bit and save a little more hahah !
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Old 3rd Sep 2021, 20:39
  #333 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Wanaka, NZ
Posts: 2,542
Originally Posted by Lurcheroo View Post
...I only ask as my wife’s Aunt...
Wife. Oh. Just picked up on that. That changes the equation a lot. How does she feel about you spending 60/100K on training for a job which might never happen? You might need to factor the cost of a divorce in your training budget as well. With the caveat of not knowing your financial circumstances or age or other personal circumstances I don't see a viable plan emerging for you. That is the cold hard truth.
gulliBell is offline  
Old 5th Sep 2021, 19:50
  #334 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Wales
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
Wife. Oh. Just picked up on that. That changes the equation a lot. How does she feel about you spending 60/100K on training for a job which might never happen? You might need to factor the cost of a divorce in your training budget as well. With the caveat of not knowing your financial circumstances or age or other personal circumstances I don't see a viable plan emerging for you. That is the cold hard truth.
Ahh yes, marriage, a weird concept all in all. Fortunately, my wife’s amazing, we’ve spoke about it at length and all the things we would have in place that would ensure it wouldn’t put us in a position of financial distress. She appreciates it’s a lot of money but it’s also what I have always wanted to do. It is an unfortunately cruel industry. Appreciate the honesty
Lurcheroo is offline  

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