Pilots who went on strike let go by PHI
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 512
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PHI is the largest, but Air Log & Era aren't too far behind. None has any excess capacity, either in pilots or aircraft. Era has been hard-pressed to cover all its jobs since winning the MMS contract, and Air Log has very few spare aircraft, just about enough to cover normal maintenance downtime and some ad hocs. None of the competitors has any chance at all of covering even a small percentage of PHI's work. Neither the aircraft nor the pilots exist, and all the GOM companies have been hiring and buying aircraft at the highest rate they can, for some time. Crew changes for PHI customers are being done mostly by boat, and riding a boat 100+NM doesn't put the hands in the mood to do a lot of work right away. The customers are getting restless.
Historical attrition rates at one of the big three was running about 100 pilots per year in addition to normal attrition (deaths, disability, retirements) which equated to about 35% of the pilot force. Thus every three years....a complete turnover by numbers. That outfit is estimated to be running 30-40 pilots short of needs daily thus requiring significant workover by pilots on their week off.
The costs of recruiting and initial training must be huge with that amount of turnover.
The costs of recruiting and initial training must be huge with that amount of turnover.
How many BILLIONS of dollars profit did BP, ESSO, etc.. make this year?
Seems to me that pilots asking for a bit more money is not unreasonable. We are not the ones doing the gouging.
I saw a picket sign with FAMILY crossed out. It would appear there is more at stake here than money.
Good on you guys. I would stand there too and I would encourage the pilots of the other offshore operators in the Gulf to unionise and join them. Imagine the attention that would garnish.
Seems to me that pilots asking for a bit more money is not unreasonable. We are not the ones doing the gouging.
I saw a picket sign with FAMILY crossed out. It would appear there is more at stake here than money.
Good on you guys. I would stand there too and I would encourage the pilots of the other offshore operators in the Gulf to unionise and join them. Imagine the attention that would garnish.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: South of the Equator
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SCABS
To put the Australia statements into context, the readers of the Forum need to understand where the “roots” of the Aussie Industrial Movement started and the Blood and Tears behind the early union movement.
Without creating a history lesson, it started in the Gold Fields in the state of Victoria in the 1850’s where the workers finally joined together [unionised] [spelt with an “s’] and rebelled against the corrupt and inept [British] ‘authorities” of the time. This action is well known as the Eureka Rebellion.
Since then the Unions have provided the Industrial Framework in which the normal workforce has been protected, to the extent that we Aussies can enjoy the same if not best Western Industrial Standards across the world. [Just ask all the immigrants and boat people].
One of the strong and certainly not acceptable actions of any worker, is to take the job of a worker who is engaged in legal industry action with his or her employer.
That person should they wish to cross to the dark side, is indeed a SCAB and very very short sighted.
Short sighted on a number of fronts: Firstly the actions of the workforce to enhance their conditions in the first place is immediately scuttled, if the SCAB decides to work in another persons job.
The SCAB is not a respectable person and will be the loser in the end. If you doubt this aspect, just ask the SCABS that crossed the Picket Line at the Patrick’s Stevedores dispute on the Victorian Water Front a few years ago. When the Strikers and Company resolved their differences, guess who is now unemployed – permanently!!
They are also cases that cars, vehicles and other equipment that was operated by SCABS was never ever operated again by the normal workforce. I am glad that the Sikorsky rumor is just that.
Helibloke says it a little closer to the point than I, but a SCAB is a SCAB and that is not the way forward.
Hope the dispute is settled quickly, and with both parties having a win.
Without creating a history lesson, it started in the Gold Fields in the state of Victoria in the 1850’s where the workers finally joined together [unionised] [spelt with an “s’] and rebelled against the corrupt and inept [British] ‘authorities” of the time. This action is well known as the Eureka Rebellion.
Since then the Unions have provided the Industrial Framework in which the normal workforce has been protected, to the extent that we Aussies can enjoy the same if not best Western Industrial Standards across the world. [Just ask all the immigrants and boat people].
One of the strong and certainly not acceptable actions of any worker, is to take the job of a worker who is engaged in legal industry action with his or her employer.
That person should they wish to cross to the dark side, is indeed a SCAB and very very short sighted.
Short sighted on a number of fronts: Firstly the actions of the workforce to enhance their conditions in the first place is immediately scuttled, if the SCAB decides to work in another persons job.
The SCAB is not a respectable person and will be the loser in the end. If you doubt this aspect, just ask the SCABS that crossed the Picket Line at the Patrick’s Stevedores dispute on the Victorian Water Front a few years ago. When the Strikers and Company resolved their differences, guess who is now unemployed – permanently!!
They are also cases that cars, vehicles and other equipment that was operated by SCABS was never ever operated again by the normal workforce. I am glad that the Sikorsky rumor is just that.
Helibloke says it a little closer to the point than I, but a SCAB is a SCAB and that is not the way forward.
Hope the dispute is settled quickly, and with both parties having a win.
Then, of course, it all seems to be perfectly acceptable to put a professional workforce out into the land of the unemployed, where they remain blacklisted to this day
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
High Nr
The U.S. is NOT Austrailia. They dont have that cohesive bond. It seems once folks here get hungry, they will usually sell out.
Im betting there are a bunch of Robbie Drivers out there foaming at the mouth for a chance to get some turbine time and good green. Will PHI higher them? It remains to be seen. Folks do strange things when desperate.
I have mixed emotions on Unions, specially in Las Vegas. I watched a loyal union sheet metal friend go without a job here for almost two years, because few would pay Union wages while they had an Army of Mexicans who would work for cheese and crackers. He finally had to move. God bless Amerika.
The U.S. is NOT Austrailia. They dont have that cohesive bond. It seems once folks here get hungry, they will usually sell out.
Im betting there are a bunch of Robbie Drivers out there foaming at the mouth for a chance to get some turbine time and good green. Will PHI higher them? It remains to be seen. Folks do strange things when desperate.
I have mixed emotions on Unions, specially in Las Vegas. I watched a loyal union sheet metal friend go without a job here for almost two years, because few would pay Union wages while they had an Army of Mexicans who would work for cheese and crackers. He finally had to move. God bless Amerika.
Last edited by B Sousa; 24th Sep 2006 at 16:36.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,957
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would be careful of a discussion sinking into the pros and cons of unionism; one needs a masters of political science to even remember the histories and outcomes of most infamous actions. The OZ pilots strike has been mentioned, apart from anything else it sent 75 business’s in the main street of Cairns that relied on the airborne fly in tourist trade to the wall. Many others – self, our pilots and many other pilots at the time involved in the same tourist trade - almost went the same way.
Eureka in 1854 has been mentioned, it may have been a precursor of unionism or more correctly democracy and reform of unfair laws for this country for sure, but the great shearers strike at Blackall in Queensland - January 1891 - was the first big industrial action that formed the commencement of the Labor Party and what really set unionism in this country in concrete.
But change in procedural matters is a giant rollercoaster and I doubt that strikes have a real place in the modern society of materialism where almost every blue and white collar workers household in all countries now revolves around cash flow for mortgages of some sort. Unlike 1891 where family sustenance could be had by the veggie garden and the family prodigal fetching home a bit of wild game with the use of a pea rifle.
This materialism aspect has been touched on by commentators of the PHI dispute, about which I know nothing.
That materialism aspect changed the demographics of the outcomes of the recent OZ Patrick’s stevedores action ( possibly was deliberately thought of by Patrick’s and carelessly not thought of by the union organisers) – and – gave this country for the first time some realistic capacity to trade over the wharf at a competitive price with the world market free (ha-ha) traders. The workers were merely sacrificial pawns in the big game.
I believe that capacity to negotiate with someone will win more points than confrontation, the OZ pilots strike showed the negative aspect of confrontation.
Within that philosophy the very strong use of the word ‘scab’ for example, tends to illustrate to me what it must really be like when an irreversible valve that during flight suddenly locks immovably the wrong way. We all know what happens then.
Mind you other English words are hard to bear too, such as the robust word, palliative, it would be great if that area of medicine could be described in more subtle fashion.
Intransigence from people is – sure- difficult to handle at best, I have always maintained that the more immovable an attitude or object is then the more ways that can be invented to change it, from either side of the fence or picquet line.
This reminds me of a funny story around one of the meatworkers strikes in the Northern Territory. The meatworks owner was continuing trading, without problems as the picquets at the front gate were quite narrow in their blockade.
One day said owner hired a musterer, a friend and very handy pilot with a bit of a mad streak, not a teetotaller, who had graduated to the trade from the back of many mad horses. I know he won’t mind this reference.
At daylight owner and pilot took-off and on the way to the day’s work, they decided in a moment of (clear headed????) mischief to view at very close quarters the picquet’s who were still half drunk and asleep, their loosely moored tents, swags, campfires and etc from the cockpit of a noisy ’47.
To this old mate adds a comment over his very loud hailer, “Picquet’s, man your posts!!!!
”
It was a very, very dusty area, they soon disappeared.
Eureka in 1854 has been mentioned, it may have been a precursor of unionism or more correctly democracy and reform of unfair laws for this country for sure, but the great shearers strike at Blackall in Queensland - January 1891 - was the first big industrial action that formed the commencement of the Labor Party and what really set unionism in this country in concrete.
But change in procedural matters is a giant rollercoaster and I doubt that strikes have a real place in the modern society of materialism where almost every blue and white collar workers household in all countries now revolves around cash flow for mortgages of some sort. Unlike 1891 where family sustenance could be had by the veggie garden and the family prodigal fetching home a bit of wild game with the use of a pea rifle.
This materialism aspect has been touched on by commentators of the PHI dispute, about which I know nothing.
That materialism aspect changed the demographics of the outcomes of the recent OZ Patrick’s stevedores action ( possibly was deliberately thought of by Patrick’s and carelessly not thought of by the union organisers) – and – gave this country for the first time some realistic capacity to trade over the wharf at a competitive price with the world market free (ha-ha) traders. The workers were merely sacrificial pawns in the big game.
I believe that capacity to negotiate with someone will win more points than confrontation, the OZ pilots strike showed the negative aspect of confrontation.
Within that philosophy the very strong use of the word ‘scab’ for example, tends to illustrate to me what it must really be like when an irreversible valve that during flight suddenly locks immovably the wrong way. We all know what happens then.
Mind you other English words are hard to bear too, such as the robust word, palliative, it would be great if that area of medicine could be described in more subtle fashion.
Intransigence from people is – sure- difficult to handle at best, I have always maintained that the more immovable an attitude or object is then the more ways that can be invented to change it, from either side of the fence or picquet line.
This reminds me of a funny story around one of the meatworkers strikes in the Northern Territory. The meatworks owner was continuing trading, without problems as the picquets at the front gate were quite narrow in their blockade.
One day said owner hired a musterer, a friend and very handy pilot with a bit of a mad streak, not a teetotaller, who had graduated to the trade from the back of many mad horses. I know he won’t mind this reference.
At daylight owner and pilot took-off and on the way to the day’s work, they decided in a moment of (clear headed????) mischief to view at very close quarters the picquet’s who were still half drunk and asleep, their loosely moored tents, swags, campfires and etc from the cockpit of a noisy ’47.
To this old mate adds a comment over his very loud hailer, “Picquet’s, man your posts!!!!
”It was a very, very dusty area, they soon disappeared.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 75
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PHI recently changed their minimum entry requirements from the industry-standard 1000 hrs. to 500. They were intended to fill copilot seats, only, initially. Instead we understand they are filling BH206 seats and flying for customers with no minimum flying hour requirements.
Last edited by SRagin; 24th Sep 2006 at 20:36.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 512
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
500 is as low as you can go. Part 135 requires at least 500 hours PIC in order to act as pilot in command of any aircraft flying under that part. So they've hit rock bottom, and still can't fill the seats, even with all vacation denied and massive mandatory overtime. I haven't had a vacation in more than 5 years, and have been mandated for overtime in Morgan City at least every other break for longer than I can remember. It's the same for every other medium and heavy pilot. Claims that they can replace us are laughable, because they can't even find replacements for normal attrition.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PHI Srike
"Having seen the way PHI is treating its pilots I personally will never seek employment with PHI. Furthermore I will recommend to any pilot I know considering applying for employment at PHI to look elsewhere. Today there are many, many employment opportunities available with companies which treat their pilots fairly. It is a shame PHI is no longer one of those. This message will most assuredly spread across the industry and PHI will soon be known as the company no one wishes to work for".
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Guanaja, Bay Islands, Honduras
Age: 68
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Claims that they can replace us are laughable, because they can't even find replacements for normal attrition.
500-hour 206 PICs in the GOM? Coming into winter? Oh, Lord. How did someone convince Hurst this is a good plan? Has he taken leave of his senses? He better take leave of PHI and soon! Hey Suldo, got any openings over there?
These are desperate times indeed. Good luck, guys. My heart is with you.
Seems odd....publically stated at Air Log not so long ago by those in the know, was "oil companies are very leary of using pilots that have not spent at least one winter in the Gulf, no matter their experience level."
That was heard at a nice steak dinner one night on the Air Log tab.
That was heard at a nice steak dinner one night on the Air Log tab.
High Nr
The U.S. is NOT Austrailia. They dont have that cohesive bond. It seems once folks here get hungry, they will usually sell out.
I have mixed emotions on Unions, specially in Las Vegas. I watched a loyal union sheet metal friend go without a job here for almost two years, because few would pay Union wages while they had an Army of Mexicans who would work for cheese and crackers. He finally had to move. God bless Amerika.
The U.S. is NOT Austrailia. They dont have that cohesive bond. It seems once folks here get hungry, they will usually sell out.
I have mixed emotions on Unions, specially in Las Vegas. I watched a loyal union sheet metal friend go without a job here for almost two years, because few would pay Union wages while they had an Army of Mexicans who would work for cheese and crackers. He finally had to move. God bless Amerika.
All that in a way is the reason why we helicopter pilots are where we are today in the USA, as opposed to Europe for example.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland and Various
Age: 47
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So I called my friend (former instructor) who now flies for PHI, 2,200+ hours. What a diffrence in story, he loves his job, thinks the company is treating people fairly, isn't required to do overtime (voluntary basis), oil companies are supporting PHI, over 100 pilots so far walked out of the Union, the Union refused to let the membership vote on the strike etc etc etc.
Now it just may be at his station people are happy, and I am not debating PHI's past record, but he said it apptly, don't belive everything you hear and very little of what you are reading on the forum.
Personally I've been in a Union and I've been at places that were vehemently anti-union so I've seen both sides. I think overall a union is a good idea, but I've also seen it terribly abused and I don't think the union should ever decide on a strike without letting the members vote on it.
Now it just may be at his station people are happy, and I am not debating PHI's past record, but he said it apptly, don't belive everything you hear and very little of what you are reading on the forum.
Personally I've been in a Union and I've been at places that were vehemently anti-union so I've seen both sides. I think overall a union is a good idea, but I've also seen it terribly abused and I don't think the union should ever decide on a strike without letting the members vote on it.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 75
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sikorsky Pilots at PHI
I retract my remarks earlier about Sikorsky-employed pilots flying for PHI during the strike. It has been reliably reported to me now that two pilots from Sikorsky's Stratford, Connecticut facility are indeed flying for PHI during the strike. These are apparently not the pilots who flew with PHI pilots during the inauguration of the S92 into service, and about whom I wrote favorably.
In addition, I am reliably told that at least one pilot employed by Flight Safety International is flying for PHI during this strike, as well.
So there you have it, folks. Two industry-leading companies joining PHI in their attempt to put down a legal work action from their pilots.
Like my earlier remarks, these are subject to correction as corroborating evidence comes in. Nevertheless, it was my hope to quell an unpleasant rumor when I made the earlier favorable-to-Sikorsky post, and I do not make these charges lightly.
Stephen D. Ragin
President OPEIU/PHPA Local 108
In addition, I am reliably told that at least one pilot employed by Flight Safety International is flying for PHI during this strike, as well.
So there you have it, folks. Two industry-leading companies joining PHI in their attempt to put down a legal work action from their pilots.
Like my earlier remarks, these are subject to correction as corroborating evidence comes in. Nevertheless, it was my hope to quell an unpleasant rumor when I made the earlier favorable-to-Sikorsky post, and I do not make these charges lightly.
Stephen D. Ragin
President OPEIU/PHPA Local 108
So I called my friend (former instructor) who now flies for PHI, 2,200+ hours. What a diffrence in story, he loves his job, thinks the company is treating people fairly, isn't required to do overtime (voluntary basis), oil companies are supporting PHI, over 100 pilots so far walked out of the Union, the Union refused to let the membership vote on the strike etc etc etc.
Now it just may be at his station people are happy, and I am not debating PHI's past record, but he said it apptly, don't belive everything you hear and very little of what you are reading on the forum.
Personally I've been in a Union and I've been at places that were vehemently anti-union so I've seen both sides. I think overall a union is a good idea, but I've also seen it terribly abused and I don't think the union should ever decide on a strike without letting the members vote on it.
Now it just may be at his station people are happy, and I am not debating PHI's past record, but he said it apptly, don't belive everything you hear and very little of what you are reading on the forum.
Personally I've been in a Union and I've been at places that were vehemently anti-union so I've seen both sides. I think overall a union is a good idea, but I've also seen it terribly abused and I don't think the union should ever decide on a strike without letting the members vote on it.
I can tell you that I personally know Steve Ragin, both Stans and Bob and I can tell you I am kind of inclined to believe their version, for both their record and having been employeed by PHI.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Norway
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Being situated thousands of miles away from Lafayette, even I know for a fact that the negotiations committee was given an overwhelming mandate from their colleagues in Local 108 to enter into strike action if this was deemed necessary. Perhaps the members(?) who find reason to raise the question of mandate should find other ways of getting the facts straight?
Using chat rooms on the web for this could easily have the effect of creating doubt and uncertainty, thereby undermining the work of the negotiations committee. I am certain this would never have been the intention of the poster, and it all boils down to not having done your homework?
Would it not have been easier to make a phone call or send an e-mail to one of the pilot representatives? I am certain one of the hardworking and trustworthy pilot representatives would do his utmost to provide you with the necessary documentation to sort out any questions. All you have to do is to provide him with your name, so that he can verify that you are a member of Local 108.
A word of advice: When the going gets tough you do not leave your elected representatives alone on the battlefield:
* First you elect pilot representatives.
* Then most of you give them mandate to negotiate.
* Then most of you give them mandate to initiate strike.
* Then a few of you abandon them when the battle begins, when the sound of live rounds are heard.
This is not impressive.
There is a term which is befitting people like that, all over the world, regardless of political sympathies.
The good thing is that lots of my former colleagues are acting admirably, standing tall in a manner which makes me proud to have flown with you back in the -80's.
This gives good reason to assume you will come out of this with your head held high.
Using chat rooms on the web for this could easily have the effect of creating doubt and uncertainty, thereby undermining the work of the negotiations committee. I am certain this would never have been the intention of the poster, and it all boils down to not having done your homework?
Would it not have been easier to make a phone call or send an e-mail to one of the pilot representatives? I am certain one of the hardworking and trustworthy pilot representatives would do his utmost to provide you with the necessary documentation to sort out any questions. All you have to do is to provide him with your name, so that he can verify that you are a member of Local 108.
A word of advice: When the going gets tough you do not leave your elected representatives alone on the battlefield:
* First you elect pilot representatives.
* Then most of you give them mandate to negotiate.
* Then most of you give them mandate to initiate strike.
* Then a few of you abandon them when the battle begins, when the sound of live rounds are heard.
This is not impressive.
There is a term which is befitting people like that, all over the world, regardless of political sympathies.
The good thing is that lots of my former colleagues are acting admirably, standing tall in a manner which makes me proud to have flown with you back in the -80's.
This gives good reason to assume you will come out of this with your head held high.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In respectful response to Aclark and RonPowell Posts above, and in keeping with the higher tone of discourse on this thread....
Yes, the membership did vote overwhelmingly ..in January 2006... in favor a withdrawal of service, as is customary in most protracted negotiations.
However, I believe Aclark is referring to the absence of *another* vote by the membership in...late Summer 2006.. on the Last Offers made by PHI.
Naturally, there is no requirement that this be done by Union Leadership.
However since the terms of the Last Offer apparently were favorable enough so that 'many'? pilots voted to accept them 'with their feet' as new terms of employment, I see Aclark's question as very germane
In conclusion, as a fellow Mother Rucker Guy (ORWAC 65-10), I have a lot of respect for Steve and his fellow Officers. They have been there.
I sincerely hope this situation is eventually resolved to the benefit of all.
Yes, the membership did vote overwhelmingly ..in January 2006... in favor a withdrawal of service, as is customary in most protracted negotiations.
However, I believe Aclark is referring to the absence of *another* vote by the membership in...late Summer 2006.. on the Last Offers made by PHI.
Naturally, there is no requirement that this be done by Union Leadership.
However since the terms of the Last Offer apparently were favorable enough so that 'many'? pilots voted to accept them 'with their feet' as new terms of employment, I see Aclark's question as very germane
In conclusion, as a fellow Mother Rucker Guy (ORWAC 65-10), I have a lot of respect for Steve and his fellow Officers. They have been there.
I sincerely hope this situation is eventually resolved to the benefit of all.