Pilots who went on strike let go by PHI
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Anyone who breaches a picket line is SCAB, justify how you like and I've seen a few on this thread who will. Still a feckin scab though. You dont have to take the work but you will, SCAB.
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chc&proud,
I guess it all depends on what you mean by "interfering with a legal strike."
Do you believe that a company that obeys the law and replaces workers is wrong? Do you believe that a non-union employee who crosses a picket line is wrong? What is "interfering" to you?
I personally think unions are good. I think strikes are sometimes necessary. The strike makes an economic cost to the company, and to the striker, and tests the wills of both.
Helibloke
........and your point is?
I guess it all depends on what you mean by "interfering with a legal strike."
Do you believe that a company that obeys the law and replaces workers is wrong? Do you believe that a non-union employee who crosses a picket line is wrong? What is "interfering" to you?
I personally think unions are good. I think strikes are sometimes necessary. The strike makes an economic cost to the company, and to the striker, and tests the wills of both.
Helibloke
........and your point is?
Definition of Scab
From the dictionary.....
scab (skăb) pronunciation
n.
1. A crust discharged from and covering a healing wound.
2. Scabies or mange in domestic animals or livestock, especially sheep.
3.
1. Any of various plant diseases caused by fungi or bacteria and resulting in crustlike spots on fruit, leaves, or roots.
2. The spots caused by such a disease.
4. Slang. A person regarded as contemptible.
5.
1. A worker who refuses membership in a labor union.
2. An employee who works while others are on strike; a strikebreaker.
3. A person hired to replace a striking worker.
intr.v., scabbed, scab·bing, scabs.
1. To become covered with scabs or a scab.
2. To work or take a job as a scab.
[Middle English, from Old Norse skabb.]
n.
1. A crust discharged from and covering a healing wound.
2. Scabies or mange in domestic animals or livestock, especially sheep.
3.
1. Any of various plant diseases caused by fungi or bacteria and resulting in crustlike spots on fruit, leaves, or roots.
2. The spots caused by such a disease.
4. Slang. A person regarded as contemptible.
5.
1. A worker who refuses membership in a labor union.
2. An employee who works while others are on strike; a strikebreaker.
3. A person hired to replace a striking worker.
intr.v., scabbed, scab·bing, scabs.
1. To become covered with scabs or a scab.
2. To work or take a job as a scab.
[Middle English, from Old Norse skabb.]
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We are separated by not just a language, but the ideas behind it!
Precisely how does a strike "protect the job"? How does a person who walks across a picket line "interfere with a strike"? Do Europeans use words like this to hide the socialist leanings of your government and your people, or to justify them?
A strike is a power play by a group of workers who bet that they can force their employer to cave in and meet their demands. Many strikes have been called to force unreasonable demands, and many have been for good reason. An employer ignores demands in his power play to get away with as much as he can. May the ones with the most power win!
Without unions, employers would put workers into cans and sell them to make money. With unions running the whole show, nothing would get done and everybody would sit around and play cards and draw checks. With a balance, the world works. The US labor laws are finely tuned. Workers who replace strikers are allowed, sometimes, and when they are, their jobs are not secure.
Precisely how does a strike "protect the job"? How does a person who walks across a picket line "interfere with a strike"? Do Europeans use words like this to hide the socialist leanings of your government and your people, or to justify them?
A strike is a power play by a group of workers who bet that they can force their employer to cave in and meet their demands. Many strikes have been called to force unreasonable demands, and many have been for good reason. An employer ignores demands in his power play to get away with as much as he can. May the ones with the most power win!
Without unions, employers would put workers into cans and sell them to make money. With unions running the whole show, nothing would get done and everybody would sit around and play cards and draw checks. With a balance, the world works. The US labor laws are finely tuned. Workers who replace strikers are allowed, sometimes, and when they are, their jobs are not secure.
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I'm not sure I agree with RJSquirrel's contention that: "With unions running the whole show, nothing would get done and everybody would sit around and play cards and draw checks." Unions certainly "ran the show" at most major U.S. airlines for decades, yet somehow planes flew in and out and passengers made it to their destinations most of the time. A relative worked in the catering department of one of the largest and most prestigious carriers (back when they had their own catering departments). Although he had strong union representation the demands of the job were strict. It would be a serious mistake to say that he sat around and played cards. Nor do I see how a pilot's job is fundamentally changed by union membership. But such are the misconceptions people have about unions. Despite what some may think, unions generally recognize the need for a company to be healthy and profitable, for without the company there is no union.
As a former PHI pilot who was involved in the OPEIU organizing drive of 1995/6 and then a member of the first Negotiating Committee, I have a keen interest in this issue. However my dog is no longer in the hunt and I am forced to watch the goings-on from afar through the presbyopic monocular of the internet. I am not liking the view.
Back in the day, none of us on the Organizing Committee wanted a strike. It's never a good thing. We sincerely hoped that the company would deal with the union honestly, fairly, and bargain in good faith. That was certainly our intent. The perspective of hindsight shows us how naive and wrong we were.
I suppose this strike was inevitable. Even then we knew one or the other of the companies (PHI or Air Log) would eventually draw that famous line in the sand and decide to bust the union for good. PHI has obviously calculated that support for the union is poor enough to do so now. Time will tell if they are right.
In the meantime the rhetoric flies, even if some helicopters don't. The JH site is clogged with even more useless chatter than usual. Lots of misinformation there for anyone foolish enough to take it seriously. Thankfully, we have PPRUNE and the two PHI Stan's (Grossman and GLS Night Pilot) to give us the levelheaded insider point of view.
On the "other" site, some make the laughable claim that salaries would be where they are now even without the union. Anyone who truly believes that is simply delusional; salaries never would have risen this high this quickly if left to those nebulous market forces we keep hearing about. Not as long as there are wannabe's out there who will sell their soul to fly helicopters for a living. And I, even as out of the industry as I am, keep receiving such emails from aspiring pilots. Salaries would have gone up a bit, yes I don't deny that. But minimum-time requirements would have come down faster.
And some complain that the union primarily benefits the old-timers. Well, umm, yeah. By design. Duh. Union membership does benefit all members, but one of the things we hoped to accomplish by unionizing was to change the mentality of helicopter pilots and slow the rampant job-hopping to supposedly greener pastures. We wanted to make it desireable to stick around and be loyal to *one* company, to enjoy the advantages of seniority and longevity. I guess not everyone (company or pilot) sees that as a good thing.
PHI's claim that only 25% of their pilots are striking is obviously the lowest number they thought they could get away with publishing, but I don't believe it. Having a spokesman for BP issue a positive statement was cute though. Cuteness aside, PHI shows that they're not above playing hardball, sending notices to striking pilots that they are hereby "permanently replaced." Anyone familiar with the company's previous antics is not surprised. I was told that during a previous organizing attempt (before my time), PHI sent faux paychecks to all pilots with nothing but zeroes on them, saying basically, "This is what you'll see if you vote for the union." The current pilots were undoubtedly warned to expect such tricks again.
On the other hand, I'm not sure I believe the 80 to 90% number that Sasless is being fed either. The truth, as always, probably lies somewhere in the middle.
If the pilots have strong resolve, I would wager that the strike will last at least three weeks. By then, the scabs will tired and itching for some time off. The money will be great, but money only goes so far. And by then, even the most sympathetic customer will have had enough. I don't see it going longer than a month. But I've been wrong before.
This is a pivotal time for U.S. helicopter pilots and there is much at stake on both sides. But it's a sad state of affairs, and I'm sorry it's come to this: The day we hoped we'd never see.
-Bob Barbanes
As a former PHI pilot who was involved in the OPEIU organizing drive of 1995/6 and then a member of the first Negotiating Committee, I have a keen interest in this issue. However my dog is no longer in the hunt and I am forced to watch the goings-on from afar through the presbyopic monocular of the internet. I am not liking the view.
Back in the day, none of us on the Organizing Committee wanted a strike. It's never a good thing. We sincerely hoped that the company would deal with the union honestly, fairly, and bargain in good faith. That was certainly our intent. The perspective of hindsight shows us how naive and wrong we were.
I suppose this strike was inevitable. Even then we knew one or the other of the companies (PHI or Air Log) would eventually draw that famous line in the sand and decide to bust the union for good. PHI has obviously calculated that support for the union is poor enough to do so now. Time will tell if they are right.
In the meantime the rhetoric flies, even if some helicopters don't. The JH site is clogged with even more useless chatter than usual. Lots of misinformation there for anyone foolish enough to take it seriously. Thankfully, we have PPRUNE and the two PHI Stan's (Grossman and GLS Night Pilot) to give us the levelheaded insider point of view.
On the "other" site, some make the laughable claim that salaries would be where they are now even without the union. Anyone who truly believes that is simply delusional; salaries never would have risen this high this quickly if left to those nebulous market forces we keep hearing about. Not as long as there are wannabe's out there who will sell their soul to fly helicopters for a living. And I, even as out of the industry as I am, keep receiving such emails from aspiring pilots. Salaries would have gone up a bit, yes I don't deny that. But minimum-time requirements would have come down faster.
And some complain that the union primarily benefits the old-timers. Well, umm, yeah. By design. Duh. Union membership does benefit all members, but one of the things we hoped to accomplish by unionizing was to change the mentality of helicopter pilots and slow the rampant job-hopping to supposedly greener pastures. We wanted to make it desireable to stick around and be loyal to *one* company, to enjoy the advantages of seniority and longevity. I guess not everyone (company or pilot) sees that as a good thing.
PHI's claim that only 25% of their pilots are striking is obviously the lowest number they thought they could get away with publishing, but I don't believe it. Having a spokesman for BP issue a positive statement was cute though. Cuteness aside, PHI shows that they're not above playing hardball, sending notices to striking pilots that they are hereby "permanently replaced." Anyone familiar with the company's previous antics is not surprised. I was told that during a previous organizing attempt (before my time), PHI sent faux paychecks to all pilots with nothing but zeroes on them, saying basically, "This is what you'll see if you vote for the union." The current pilots were undoubtedly warned to expect such tricks again.
On the other hand, I'm not sure I believe the 80 to 90% number that Sasless is being fed either. The truth, as always, probably lies somewhere in the middle.
If the pilots have strong resolve, I would wager that the strike will last at least three weeks. By then, the scabs will tired and itching for some time off. The money will be great, but money only goes so far. And by then, even the most sympathetic customer will have had enough. I don't see it going longer than a month. But I've been wrong before.
This is a pivotal time for U.S. helicopter pilots and there is much at stake on both sides. But it's a sad state of affairs, and I'm sorry it's come to this: The day we hoped we'd never see.
-Bob Barbanes
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Bob,
Unfortunately, you prove my point. The major US Airlines are all on the ropes now due to union greed and the ability of airlines to charge whatever they wanted in a tightly regulated market. It was the removal of Government airline ticket regulation that lead to the disaster now being felt by the majors. The fat salaries for pilots (1/4 million per year for a driver!!) and flight attendants is the biggest reason for their inability to reduce cost. Their bloated contracts are now being overturned by bankruptcy judges.
Otherwise, I agree with your post, and frankly support unions, including PHI Pilots!
But I also think the Euro-speak that says scabs "interfere" with a strike, and strikes "protect the job" are hogwash, and sound like "Workers of the world, Unite!", a favorite refrain of every commie organizer who never worked a day in his life.
Unions suck, management sucks, it is the balance of the two greedy actors that holds promise of sanity.
Unfortunately, you prove my point. The major US Airlines are all on the ropes now due to union greed and the ability of airlines to charge whatever they wanted in a tightly regulated market. It was the removal of Government airline ticket regulation that lead to the disaster now being felt by the majors. The fat salaries for pilots (1/4 million per year for a driver!!) and flight attendants is the biggest reason for their inability to reduce cost. Their bloated contracts are now being overturned by bankruptcy judges.
Otherwise, I agree with your post, and frankly support unions, including PHI Pilots!
But I also think the Euro-speak that says scabs "interfere" with a strike, and strikes "protect the job" are hogwash, and sound like "Workers of the world, Unite!", a favorite refrain of every commie organizer who never worked a day in his life.
Unions suck, management sucks, it is the balance of the two greedy actors that holds promise of sanity.
"Having a spokesman for BP issue a positive statement was cute though. Cuteness aside, PHI shows that they're not above playing hardball, sending notices to striking pilots that they are hereby "permanently replaced"."
Hey Bob, I wonder if that spokesman wouldn't possibly be a certain former PHI Director of Operations dating back to our time?
Hey Bob, I wonder if that spokesman wouldn't possibly be a certain former PHI Director of Operations dating back to our time?
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I just PM'd SASless with this:
I know Sikorsky provided pilots for PHI to get them started (I used to do this, too, I flew at KLM Noordzee for a few months in the 70's).
I would guess that these pilots would cross a picket line.
Honestly, I probably would, not because I didn't agree with the strikers, just because my job is what it is, and that is the deal I made with my company. Were I a union employee for a company, I would probably honor the picket line.
Tough times call for tough decisions.
I know Sikorsky provided pilots for PHI to get them started (I used to do this, too, I flew at KLM Noordzee for a few months in the 70's).
I would guess that these pilots would cross a picket line.
Honestly, I probably would, not because I didn't agree with the strikers, just because my job is what it is, and that is the deal I made with my company. Were I a union employee for a company, I would probably honor the picket line.
Tough times call for tough decisions.
The rumor of Sikorsky pilots flying for PHI appears to be just that, a rumor. A couple of our (permanently replaced) S-92 pilots made some phone calls and confirmed that while Mr. Gonsoulin may have approached Sikorsky, no Sikorsky factory pilots are currently flying PHI aircraft. I don't know if they could legally refuse if told to do so, but at this point it appears they've not crossed the picket line.
As far as being a tough decision, perhaps it was for some, but most of us feel the action was forced upon us by the company's intransigence in failing to acknowledge and address the substantive issues.
SASless,
A significant number of PHI pilots have, in fact, crossed the picket line declining to honor the strike, each for his/her own very personal reasons. However, the company had been operating in such a personnel deficit before the strike that the loss of even a few pilots would dramatically affect the company's ability to meet its obligations. Rest assured that a majority (I don't have an accurate figure) of the pilots are, in fact, honoring the strike and witholding their services. As time goes on the shortage will become more acute as flight crews reach their currency (required check rides) and duty time limits with no one available to train or replace them.
Weekends are normally not too busy, so the company may still be able to convince some that they're able to operate almost normally. However, come Monday we'll all have a much better gauge of the effectiveness of this action.
-Stan-
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rj, I can't agree with you. Unions have little to do with the unprofitability of airlines, automobile manufacturers, or any other industry. Unprofitability is the result of management incompetence and greed. Southwest Airlines is, and always has been, highly profitable, and is one of the most unionized companies in existence. SWA treats its employees fairly, gives them a say in how the company is run, and thus has always made a big profit. American Airlines, under Crandall, went broke because of management incompetence. Ford, GM, and Daimler-Chrysler are going broke not because of unions, but because of management incomptence, turning out models that nobody will buy. Unions are a convenient scapegoat, but there is no truth in the blame they get.
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To set the record straight, so far we have absolutely no evidence that Sikorsky-employed pilots are flying for PHI, Inc. in any capacity.
The PHI pilots who have flown with them in the past tell me that they have way too much class for that sort of activity.
All the best,
Stephen D. Ragin
President, OPEIU/PHPA Local 108
The PHI pilots who have flown with them in the past tell me that they have way too much class for that sort of activity.
All the best,
Stephen D. Ragin
President, OPEIU/PHPA Local 108
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I'm hearing that Gonsoulin called Pino and asked for the pilots, but apparently didn't get them. The pilots are saying they haven't been asked, and wouldn't cross the picket line if they were asked.
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It's kind of funny to hear people say on one hand that it's those dang-ol' high union salaries that are killing companies, and on the other hand claim that salaries would be just as high now without the union.
Can't have it both ways, guys.
RJS, not to get into a peeing contest, but what you *said* was:
With unions running the whole show, nothing would get done and everybody would sit around and play cards and draw checks.
I respectfully disagree. Even with unions, stuff gets done. It *has* to get done or no revenue comes in. The Big Fear of unions is that everyone will take on a "not my job, man" or "I'm on break" mentality. I don't see how that would happen with pilots. We're assigned flights, we take flights. Unionized airline pilots have been doing just that since 1939.
Yes, Deregulation hurt the U.S. airline industry badly, but as others have pointed out the sole blame for that cannot be laid on "unions." I, for one, blame the DC-9. Jeez-Louise, getting stuck in the middle seat in the rear of one of those was my personal version of hell. And that Canadair Regional Jet? Torture! So instead of flying from Florida up to New York to visit family, I just drove. Took longer, yes. But I had a big seat all to myself. Now, if there's a choice, I drive. And I wonder how many others there are out there like me who feel the same way? The airlines themselves drove us to driving, then had to cut fares to the bone to entice people to fill their tiny seats.
Can't have it both ways, guys.
RJS, not to get into a peeing contest, but what you *said* was:
With unions running the whole show, nothing would get done and everybody would sit around and play cards and draw checks.
I respectfully disagree. Even with unions, stuff gets done. It *has* to get done or no revenue comes in. The Big Fear of unions is that everyone will take on a "not my job, man" or "I'm on break" mentality. I don't see how that would happen with pilots. We're assigned flights, we take flights. Unionized airline pilots have been doing just that since 1939.
Yes, Deregulation hurt the U.S. airline industry badly, but as others have pointed out the sole blame for that cannot be laid on "unions." I, for one, blame the DC-9. Jeez-Louise, getting stuck in the middle seat in the rear of one of those was my personal version of hell. And that Canadair Regional Jet? Torture! So instead of flying from Florida up to New York to visit family, I just drove. Took longer, yes. But I had a big seat all to myself. Now, if there's a choice, I drive. And I wonder how many others there are out there like me who feel the same way? The airlines themselves drove us to driving, then had to cut fares to the bone to entice people to fill their tiny seats.
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PHI replacing striking pilots
Jason Brown
[email protected]
A PHI official on Friday said the company has begun permanently replacing those pilots who walked out in support of a union strike against the company Wednesday.
Richard Rovinelli, chief administrative officer at PHI, said Friday the company has received a great deal of applications from interested pilots following the strike, which he said has had minimal effect on the company's daily operations.
But with an overall pilot shortage throughout the Gulf coast region, it is unclear exactly where the pilots are coming from. Some companies require more than 1,000 flight hours to operate a helicopter on the Gulf coast.
"Obviously you don't replace that many pilots overnight," Rovinelli said, adding that the new higher pay scale and economic benefits package put in place before the union's strike has helped to lure more pilots into the area.
Union President Steve Ragin said the company has told each union member in support of the strike that they would be permanently replaced. Ragin referred to it as a scare tactic used to intimidate employees.
He said he and other striking employees have been informed that their employment has been terminated and that the company would be sending their last check. They have also asked that they turn in all of their equipment.
"Which I will probably do despite the fact that I expect to be back at work at some point in the future with Petroleum Helicopters," Ragin said.
It is unclear exactly how many of PHI's 550-plus pilots are striking and how many could potentially be replaced by the company as both the union and company have given different figures regarding the work-stoppage.
The company said that only 25 percent of the pilots in both the oil and gas sector and its EMS division supported the work stoppage. The union placed the figure much higher.
On Friday, PHI issued a statement that the union "has made numerous false public statements regarding PHI's flight activity."
PHI said its oil and gas operations in the Gulf of Mexico have completed approximately 80 percent of its normal flight volumes and its air medical segment is operating at about 90 percent.
"Our customers have been very supportive to us," Rovinelli said.
[email protected]
A PHI official on Friday said the company has begun permanently replacing those pilots who walked out in support of a union strike against the company Wednesday.
Richard Rovinelli, chief administrative officer at PHI, said Friday the company has received a great deal of applications from interested pilots following the strike, which he said has had minimal effect on the company's daily operations.
But with an overall pilot shortage throughout the Gulf coast region, it is unclear exactly where the pilots are coming from. Some companies require more than 1,000 flight hours to operate a helicopter on the Gulf coast.
"Obviously you don't replace that many pilots overnight," Rovinelli said, adding that the new higher pay scale and economic benefits package put in place before the union's strike has helped to lure more pilots into the area.
Union President Steve Ragin said the company has told each union member in support of the strike that they would be permanently replaced. Ragin referred to it as a scare tactic used to intimidate employees.
He said he and other striking employees have been informed that their employment has been terminated and that the company would be sending their last check. They have also asked that they turn in all of their equipment.
"Which I will probably do despite the fact that I expect to be back at work at some point in the future with Petroleum Helicopters," Ragin said.
It is unclear exactly how many of PHI's 550-plus pilots are striking and how many could potentially be replaced by the company as both the union and company have given different figures regarding the work-stoppage.
The company said that only 25 percent of the pilots in both the oil and gas sector and its EMS division supported the work stoppage. The union placed the figure much higher.
On Friday, PHI issued a statement that the union "has made numerous false public statements regarding PHI's flight activity."
PHI said its oil and gas operations in the Gulf of Mexico have completed approximately 80 percent of its normal flight volumes and its air medical segment is operating at about 90 percent.
"Our customers have been very supportive to us," Rovinelli said.
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Industrial action is never the preferred option, neither for a union nor for management. It hurts everyone involved, and can easily leave behind a long term fallout of distrust and animosity. Leave the parties alone to sort out their differences.
It is ill advised for any pilot who wants to earn the respect and friendship of his fellow colleagues to act in a way that might be considered to interfer with a lawful strike. This is basic social intelligence for any sensible person, in my opinion.
CHC Helikopter Service in Norway have been more than 90 % unionised for decades. The company for all practical purposes have made a profit every year for more than 40 years, despite facing stiff competition at times.
All 5 companies in CHC Europe are more than 90 % union. All companies are profitable and highly productive, based on sensible collective labor agreements.
The same could be the case in PHI, even after an agreement have been reached.
All over the world a shortage of qualified helicopter pilots have emerged.
It's hard to see how PHI can replace highly skilled pilots all of a sudden. From what I've seen the companies in the GOM even prior to the strike were having problems reqruiting pilots. Am I mistaken? Perhaps PHI would lower minimum requirements for new candidates?
The GOM have problems trying to find a cure for incident levels and accident levels which the customers find unacceptable. The fact is that the oil companies all around the world have set a goal: Accident rates for offshore operations should be reduced to the levels of airline travel by 2012. It's hard to see this goal being achievable if the parties in PHI can not see eye to eye.
It is ill advised for any pilot who wants to earn the respect and friendship of his fellow colleagues to act in a way that might be considered to interfer with a lawful strike. This is basic social intelligence for any sensible person, in my opinion.
CHC Helikopter Service in Norway have been more than 90 % unionised for decades. The company for all practical purposes have made a profit every year for more than 40 years, despite facing stiff competition at times.
All 5 companies in CHC Europe are more than 90 % union. All companies are profitable and highly productive, based on sensible collective labor agreements.
The same could be the case in PHI, even after an agreement have been reached.
All over the world a shortage of qualified helicopter pilots have emerged.
It's hard to see how PHI can replace highly skilled pilots all of a sudden. From what I've seen the companies in the GOM even prior to the strike were having problems reqruiting pilots. Am I mistaken? Perhaps PHI would lower minimum requirements for new candidates?
The GOM have problems trying to find a cure for incident levels and accident levels which the customers find unacceptable. The fact is that the oil companies all around the world have set a goal: Accident rates for offshore operations should be reduced to the levels of airline travel by 2012. It's hard to see this goal being achievable if the parties in PHI can not see eye to eye.
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PHI hasn't been able to keep up with attrition over the past couple of years, much less replace half its pilot force. The company has publicly admitted that it has been hiring less than half the number it needs, and well over half the ones it has hired have quit before completing training. The only way to accelerate hiring is to hire very low-time pilots and give them minimal training; even that won't cover the shortfalls. Even with huge amounts of mandatory workover, they couldn't man all the aircraft before the strike, and they won't be able to man them for years via hiring replacements.
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