Gyrocopters/Autogyros
Guest
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Gyrocopters/Autogyros
I am in the very tentative phases of deciding to buy one. It would be immensely useful if the UK's premier expert in the field were to make himself known to me here.
Alternatively anyone with any experience whatsoever would be more than welcome to make me the beneficiary of their wisdom.
Cheers,
WWW
Alternatively anyone with any experience whatsoever would be more than welcome to make me the beneficiary of their wisdom.
Cheers,
WWW
Guest
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I too have always had a strange attraction to these weird and wonderfull machines.
I believe there is a guy at Carlisle who specialises in this kind of thing, Roger Savage i think.
I too would be interested in more info.
WWW i hear that you are aflicted with the same rugby players build as me, you might find weight is a problem for many of these designs!
[This message has been edited by PURPLE PITOT (edited 18 June 2001).]
I believe there is a guy at Carlisle who specialises in this kind of thing, Roger Savage i think.
I too would be interested in more info.
WWW i hear that you are aflicted with the same rugby players build as me, you might find weight is a problem for many of these designs!
[This message has been edited by PURPLE PITOT (edited 18 June 2001).]
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I've had a couple of trial lessons with Roger Savage up in Carlisle; yes, they are lots of fun. Need hardly any distance for takeoff, and can land on the spot if there's almost any wind at all. Engine failure is no problem; you just float gently down to earth. Landing I managed on my first lesson; take-off is a bit harder, but I can't remember exactly why. Main disadvantage is they're very noisy. Also, there are only 7 instructors in the country, so you might have to travel quite a way to find one.
They're basically fairly safe, and most of the accidents were in the early days when there were no 2-seater gyros, so people learned by an instructor talking to them from the ground; not the case any more. But there have been a couple of accidents recently, which have started the whole safety discussion off again.
There's loads of stuff on the Internet about them; do a search. The best is Mel's Gyro Page; a chap called Mel Morris Jones who flies gyros and lives somewhere in the West Country.
I was originally looking for a cheap alternative to helicopters, and gyros didn't quite make it as they couldn't hover, but they still fascinate me.
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Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
They're basically fairly safe, and most of the accidents were in the early days when there were no 2-seater gyros, so people learned by an instructor talking to them from the ground; not the case any more. But there have been a couple of accidents recently, which have started the whole safety discussion off again.
There's loads of stuff on the Internet about them; do a search. The best is Mel's Gyro Page; a chap called Mel Morris Jones who flies gyros and lives somewhere in the West Country.
I was originally looking for a cheap alternative to helicopters, and gyros didn't quite make it as they couldn't hover, but they still fascinate me.
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Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
Guest
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Well thanks for that everyone. I'd seen the Carlisle site - he looks like the kind of guy I would want to talk to. I am interested in that M16 jobby with that rotax turbo'd engine - having dealt with 44,000lb of thrust all day I need something with at least a little bit of poke to play with (excluding the missus)...
Will 14 stone of prime welsh stallion really be too much for such a machine? I am a fat barstand but I am also very very short... think of the C of G benefits....
Cheers guys,
WWW
ps just think of actually landing in your pub beer garden in such a machine, unstrapping and marching in for a pint - you'd be a legend!
Will 14 stone of prime welsh stallion really be too much for such a machine? I am a fat barstand but I am also very very short... think of the C of G benefits....
Cheers guys,
WWW
ps just think of actually landing in your pub beer garden in such a machine, unstrapping and marching in for a pint - you'd be a legend!
Guest
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WWW,
You might be a legend, but except in mid-summer you'd also be frozen stiff, especially in mid-Wales. The VPM M16 or whatever it's called is open cockpit with your head above the windscreen, and at 70 kts that is coooollllddd. Definitely try before you buy. I'm pretty sure that weight is not a problem though.
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Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
You might be a legend, but except in mid-summer you'd also be frozen stiff, especially in mid-Wales. The VPM M16 or whatever it's called is open cockpit with your head above the windscreen, and at 70 kts that is coooollllddd. Definitely try before you buy. I'm pretty sure that weight is not a problem though.
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Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
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There was a spate of accidents to quite experienced pilots in the late 60s and 70s (including a very public one at Farnborough). The scene went quiet for some years and now we are recycling with exactly the same type of accidents. Reading those accident reports should be de-rigeur. The two lethal problems appear to be mast bumping and unloading the rotor disc caused by a push-over or turbulence. Can't say much about the former except that it might be an inherent fault of the teetering hub rotor head. The latter is a gotchyer. You must maintain positive G in all manoeuvers. Any unloading of the rotor causes it to slow down and below a critical rpm it will not speed up again. The rotor flails and fails and the ROD becomes something akin to 32ft./sec./sec. 
I've seen a film of it happening to Ken Wallis but he was only 20' high, yet amazingly, walked away from it. 
[This message has been edited by Yogi-Bear (edited 20 June 2001).]
I've seen a film of it happening to Ken Wallis but he was only 20' high, yet amazingly, walked away from it. [This message has been edited by Yogi-Bear (edited 20 June 2001).]
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I wasn't planning on going as high as 20ft in them... !!
Strictly a low level sunny day big boy toy for use in rural rural mid-Wales. I spent all this time blatting around N.Wales in Gazelles and Yellow Wessex's you see and it has rather given me a taste for this sort of thing...
Checking the stats its still 4 times safer than me buying a motorbike...
And I am a careful wee swine.
WWW
!!Strictly a low level sunny day big boy toy for use in rural rural mid-Wales. I spent all this time blatting around N.Wales in Gazelles and Yellow Wessex's you see and it has rather given me a taste for this sort of thing...
Checking the stats its still 4 times safer than me buying a motorbike...
And I am a careful wee swine.
WWW
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WWW,
How about a REAL helicopter? There was a Rotorway Exec for sale in my village recently, not too far from you; it might still be around. £35,000 I think; OK, a bit more than a Gyro, but more fun too. And I think I saw one in a mag recently for £20,000; if you're interested I'll try to find it again.
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Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
How about a REAL helicopter? There was a Rotorway Exec for sale in my village recently, not too far from you; it might still be around. £35,000 I think; OK, a bit more than a Gyro, but more fun too
. And I think I saw one in a mag recently for £20,000; if you're interested I'll try to find it again.------------------
Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
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WWW
Having spent the past 30 yrs flying fixed wing and the addition in the past two years of rotary I had my first spin in the gyrocopter with R.C.last Sunday at Carlisle.
Brilliant fun and plenty banter from the many pilots who have built and fly their own machines.One guy told me it only costs £15 p.h.to run his single seater which is a darn sight cheaper than £140 for a Robbo.
We are looking to form a group around our pub crowd and base it in our local farmers field.
For someone used to flying a C401 it was a little disconcerting for the first 10 minutes to be sat,like a pea on a drum,in an open cockpit,but I enjoyed the low level stuff immensly.It's like a flying motorbike and,more immportantly,within most peoples reach.
I must read up on the accident reports but negative g is bad news in a Robbo so I am familiar with that.
Anyway,good luck.I'm sure we are going to see more of them around.
Having spent the past 30 yrs flying fixed wing and the addition in the past two years of rotary I had my first spin in the gyrocopter with R.C.last Sunday at Carlisle.
Brilliant fun and plenty banter from the many pilots who have built and fly their own machines.One guy told me it only costs £15 p.h.to run his single seater which is a darn sight cheaper than £140 for a Robbo.
We are looking to form a group around our pub crowd and base it in our local farmers field.
For someone used to flying a C401 it was a little disconcerting for the first 10 minutes to be sat,like a pea on a drum,in an open cockpit,but I enjoyed the low level stuff immensly.It's like a flying motorbike and,more immportantly,within most peoples reach.
I must read up on the accident reports but negative g is bad news in a Robbo so I am familiar with that.
Anyway,good luck.I'm sure we are going to see more of them around.
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Yogi :
Slight technical correction. Unloading the rotor disk can lead to mast bumping if not immediately corrected or if a bit vigorous. Bumping is a consequence of unloading, not ( to my mind ) a strictly separate phenomenon.
There are recent accident reports, and if you speak to any R22 instructor I'm sure they'll quite happily explain in much more detail.
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For the last bloody time, it's "The En Ar Fairy" . . .
Slight technical correction. Unloading the rotor disk can lead to mast bumping if not immediately corrected or if a bit vigorous. Bumping is a consequence of unloading, not ( to my mind ) a strictly separate phenomenon.
There are recent accident reports, and if you speak to any R22 instructor I'm sure they'll quite happily explain in much more detail.
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For the last bloody time, it's "The En Ar Fairy" . . .
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Yogi
So if the rotor unlaods in turbulence, and unloading causes lead budgie syndrome, and it happens to gyro-gods like Ken Wallis, then surely these whirly aerial motorbikes are complete death traps as the accident record seems to show?
SSD
So if the rotor unlaods in turbulence, and unloading causes lead budgie syndrome, and it happens to gyro-gods like Ken Wallis, then surely these whirly aerial motorbikes are complete death traps as the accident record seems to show?
SSD
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Thank you NRF, It's some time since I last read the bumff so relied on the little grey cells somewhat.
SSD, It's only an opinion when all's said and done. These machines appear to handle fundamentally differently from very light helis and a good study of the runes seems called for before embarking. Having read the accident reports over a thirty year period, I do think we re-discover repeatedly what our predecesors have already discovered. Some having paid the price for this knowledge, it seems feckless to ignore their experiences.
[This message has been edited by Yogi-Bear (edited 21 June 2001).]
SSD, It's only an opinion when all's said and done. These machines appear to handle fundamentally differently from very light helis and a good study of the runes seems called for before embarking. Having read the accident reports over a thirty year period, I do think we re-discover repeatedly what our predecesors have already discovered. Some having paid the price for this knowledge, it seems feckless to ignore their experiences.
[This message has been edited by Yogi-Bear (edited 21 June 2001).]
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Yogi
Absolutely agree about learning from past experiences. but I'm still not sure if these machines are safe. Safe as, say, a production GA aircraft. In other words, if you fly it right you'll have no problem, and flying it right does not require superhuman levels of skill and concentration?
I'd love to know 'cause look interesting ;~)
SSD
Absolutely agree about learning from past experiences. but I'm still not sure if these machines are safe. Safe as, say, a production GA aircraft. In other words, if you fly it right you'll have no problem, and flying it right does not require superhuman levels of skill and concentration?
I'd love to know 'cause look interesting ;~)
SSD
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I can't answer an absolute like that but if you like I'll copy some of the old reports when I can (some searching in old Pilot mags)and give them to you next time. Then you decide. OK?
WWW, You can buy an ex-MOD Gazelle on a Permit to Fly now at half the price of a CoA version. Then form a kamikazee (or kote) group? Alternatively, (and that's what you wanted?) a Mini 500 heli (only c£15K) looks equally lethal, to the pilot, that is.
Whirly, A while back an aquaintance bought an Exec 90 and showed it off to all. After a good look around I said, "Very nice Pete, but where do you put your sandwiches?" He didn't keep it very long, because he was starving.
[This message has been edited by Yogi-Bear (edited 21 June 2001).]
WWW, You can buy an ex-MOD Gazelle on a Permit to Fly now at half the price of a CoA version. Then form a kamikazee (or kote) group? Alternatively, (and that's what you wanted?) a Mini 500 heli (only c£15K) looks equally lethal, to the pilot, that is.
Whirly, A while back an aquaintance bought an Exec 90 and showed it off to all. After a good look around I said, "Very nice Pete, but where do you put your sandwiches?" He didn't keep it very long, because he was starving.
[This message has been edited by Yogi-Bear (edited 21 June 2001).]