SAR: Search & Rescue Ops [Archive Copy]
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SAR Helicopter
What would is a good SAR helicopter? One that can be used in hoist operations. Now lot’s of copters can hoist, but with an AS-350 or other similar models, when add a hoist operator, paramedic it must get crowded when you pick up more than one person.
Is the S-61 a good ship to use if you expect to pick up more than one person?
Does anyone have the DOC on a S-61 in USD? What does it burn in fuel per hour?
Is the S-61 a good ship to use if you expect to pick up more than one person?
Does anyone have the DOC on a S-61 in USD? What does it burn in fuel per hour?
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We'll need more information.
Response time?
Size of region of responsibility?
Types of missions (number of casualties)?
Medical training on board (higher level training usually requires more time on scene)?
Size of crew?
Response time?
Size of region of responsibility?
Types of missions (number of casualties)?
Medical training on board (higher level training usually requires more time on scene)?
Size of crew?
Join Date: Feb 2003
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BBC reports helicopter crash in the Highlands
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General requirements for flying SAR
Hi,
does anyone know what the general requirements are for flying SAR?
Are we talking about 2000 hrs? How much IFR? How well is offshore (North sea) experience appreciated?
Thanks,
DJG
does anyone know what the general requirements are for flying SAR?
Are we talking about 2000 hrs? How much IFR? How well is offshore (North sea) experience appreciated?
Thanks,
DJG
Hi DJG
I would think that previous SAR experience would be required for a command position. Hovering over the sea at night in still wind is not something you learn overnight
.
N Sea exp is OK but droning up and down the radials with the auto pilot in does not prepare you for SAR.
A 2000 hr Puma pilot has probably only done about 800 rig landings of which about 50 may have been at night. Not alot of real edge of the flight envelope experience.
5hrs of mountain flying in high winds will teach you more about what the helicopter will do/not do as well as giving you an adrenalin high!!!
HF
I would think that previous SAR experience would be required for a command position. Hovering over the sea at night in still wind is not something you learn overnight
.N Sea exp is OK but droning up and down the radials with the auto pilot in does not prepare you for SAR.
A 2000 hr Puma pilot has probably only done about 800 rig landings of which about 50 may have been at night. Not alot of real edge of the flight envelope experience.
5hrs of mountain flying in high winds will teach you more about what the helicopter will do/not do as well as giving you an adrenalin high!!!
HF
A question for helicopter S & R crews
When watching Hollywoods finest rescuing sailors from submarines, the heli crew always drop an 'earth' wire to the sub first. Apparently this is to ensure that the sub and heli are both at the same electrical potential before lowering a crewman. It seems that if this is not done the crewman completes a circuit and gets frazzled.
Is this just Hollywood making the movie interesting? Or do both the heli and sub have to be earthed together before a crewman can be lowered?
May I also add "Well Done" to those SAR crews involved in the HMCS Chicoutimi rescue.
CC
Is this just Hollywood making the movie interesting? Or do both the heli and sub have to be earthed together before a crewman can be lowered?
May I also add "Well Done" to those SAR crews involved in the HMCS Chicoutimi rescue.
CC
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CC
No, its not a 'hollywood ism' it IS fact.
If you don't earth first, chances are you and/or the survivor will get a nasty 'hello' in the form a an electrical zap, when they make contact with each other.
My congrats also for all involved in the Sub rescue - well done all.
Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey
No, its not a 'hollywood ism' it IS fact.
If you don't earth first, chances are you and/or the survivor will get a nasty 'hello' in the form a an electrical zap, when they make contact with each other.
My congrats also for all involved in the Sub rescue - well done all.
Kind regards
The Swinging Monkey
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I think you might be talking about the “High Line” – see picture below.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3723124.stm
The winch wire is in the Winchman’s hand. Just below his hand is the winch hook attached to which is the nylon ‘high-line’ which you can just see looping down to the guy at the front end of the tower. This speeds up returning the hook and strops for multiple lifts and can often prevent swings developing during transfers.
There may well be a metal static discharge wire (about 6-8 feet in length) attached to the hook but that would be out of picture.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3723124.stm
The winch wire is in the Winchman’s hand. Just below his hand is the winch hook attached to which is the nylon ‘high-line’ which you can just see looping down to the guy at the front end of the tower. This speeds up returning the hook and strops for multiple lifts and can often prevent swings developing during transfers.
There may well be a metal static discharge wire (about 6-8 feet in length) attached to the hook but that would be out of picture.
Neither Hollywood 'hype' nor absolutely necessary. As long as you don't touch the wire with your hand as you contact boat, ship or land, the static discharges down the outside of your immersion suit ... unless you are still externally very wet. However, I did, once, get a real eye-watering belt touching down on a Marine Craft pinnace ... between my tooth fillings!! 
It took some time for the sort of ozone residue to clear the tonsils.
In the mid 60's RAE Farnborough did some trials with us to measure the charge levels we were dealing with - this was on Whirlwinds. They took their gear on the marine craft and used a volt/ammeter in series with an earthing 'prod' to check us each time we came on board. From memory, the figures were something like 175,000 plus volts but very little ampereage. That was the maximum on the initial touch down but it built up quite quickly again. Happy days
It took some time for the sort of ozone residue to clear the tonsils. In the mid 60's RAE Farnborough did some trials with us to measure the charge levels we were dealing with - this was on Whirlwinds. They took their gear on the marine craft and used a volt/ammeter in series with an earthing 'prod' to check us each time we came on board. From memory, the figures were something like 175,000 plus volts but very little ampereage. That was the maximum on the initial touch down but it built up quite quickly again. Happy days
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I am not a SAR chap however as a rotary backseater we are trained in SAR procedures just in case. Therefore not an expert - we leave this to 771, 22, 202 and 203(R), and a great job they do to
We actually use a metal static discharge wire as mentioned by extpwron, commonly known as a "zap lead". 8 to 10' long, it clags on to the end of the winch wire and should, theoretically, touch the ground, sea or fixed object such as a deck before the winchman does, thus grounding the static build up.
If you see one coming down at you DONT reach out and grab it
We actually use a metal static discharge wire as mentioned by extpwron, commonly known as a "zap lead". 8 to 10' long, it clags on to the end of the winch wire and should, theoretically, touch the ground, sea or fixed object such as a deck before the winchman does, thus grounding the static build up.
If you see one coming down at you DONT reach out and grab it
Gentleman Aviator
Same principle as earthing the hook when picking up an underslung load (usl).
Remember doing usl training with RMAS at STANTA a while ago. Trainee Rupert hooker had been given earthing probe ... standing smartly at attention with probe in one hand .... and earth spike in the other!! Oh how we laughed when it worked as advertised
Remember doing usl training with RMAS at STANTA a while ago. Trainee Rupert hooker had been given earthing probe ... standing smartly at attention with probe in one hand .... and earth spike in the other!! Oh how we laughed when it worked as advertised
Avoid imitations
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My intro to helis was a holding pilot at B flight RAF Leconfield, then equipped with Whirlwinds. The crews hadn't been able to do much recent training due to recent bad weather so they used me as a professional survivor for a few weeks.
One drizzly evening I was winched down to the Bridlington lifeboat. A certain large MALM used a double strop technique to get us both down to the deck, with my legs dangling lower than his. As I touched the deck, I suffered an almighty static jolt, which caused both my knees to convulse upwards, right into said winchman's wedding tackle. He didn't speak to me much for a while.... or anyone else for that matter.
One drizzly evening I was winched down to the Bridlington lifeboat. A certain large MALM used a double strop technique to get us both down to the deck, with my legs dangling lower than his. As I touched the deck, I suffered an almighty static jolt, which caused both my knees to convulse upwards, right into said winchman's wedding tackle. He didn't speak to me much for a while.... or anyone else for that matter.
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Oggin Aviator..
Don't forget Gannet SAR flight in your list "SAR experts" only the busiest SAR unit in the UK last year and on track for the honours again this year.
If the rest of the Navy don't know about us no wonder the media always refer to us as "Crabs" (at least they got last weeks job correct)
In regard to "zap leads" they don't work on subs / MCMV's due to the anachoic tiles / plastic boat preventing the static being dischraged. Flying guide states that you should not use a ZAP lead when operating to these vessels. there should be an earthing team on deck to earth the wire as you descend..... just make sure the fools do not earth you instead of the wire!!
Don't forget Gannet SAR flight in your list "SAR experts" only the busiest SAR unit in the UK last year and on track for the honours again this year.
If the rest of the Navy don't know about us no wonder the media always refer to us as "Crabs" (at least they got last weeks job correct)
In regard to "zap leads" they don't work on subs / MCMV's due to the anachoic tiles / plastic boat preventing the static being dischraged. Flying guide states that you should not use a ZAP lead when operating to these vessels. there should be an earthing team on deck to earth the wire as you descend..... just make sure the fools do not earth you instead of the wire!!
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WE Branch Fanatic
NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gannet SAR Flight is a stand alone unit and is not associated with 77 NAS.
Culdrose is our parent air station but that is as far as it goes.
Good to see the rest of the Navy is so well informed.
Oh Well only 2 years left.
NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gannet SAR Flight is a stand alone unit and is not associated with 77 NAS.
Culdrose is our parent air station but that is as far as it goes.
Good to see the rest of the Navy is so well informed.
Oh Well only 2 years left.
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Sorry !
Fat Obs
Apologies - I also thought Gannet SAR was a part of 771. All these changes - I dont know !!!!!
Your handle and location makes me think - wasnt I on the HWI course with you, the Jungly and the Kiwi? If so you may realise why I am so ill informed as to the parenting situation.
Keep up the good work.
Oggin
Apologies - I also thought Gannet SAR was a part of 771. All these changes - I dont know !!!!!
Your handle and location makes me think - wasnt I on the HWI course with you, the Jungly and the Kiwi? If so you may realise why I am so ill informed as to the parenting situation.
Keep up the good work.
Oggin
What a decision?
May be some of us have seen that shocking video... in the past:
Please only for the interested helopilots and not the voyeurs! This isn't a game!
The helicoptercrew cutted the hoist line..., it was only an exercise..., in the border area between france and spain some years ago.
Why should this be happen? How is it to prevent? What's the opinion of the other hoist or short-haul experienced pilots?
I think it's the worst decision or fingertrouble they could ever made and i don't know if i could work as a pilot with such a "mistake"in the future. Poor mission preparation including mental preparation.
I know there are a lot of short haulers out here don't using radiocom between rescuer and crew. But with a good link between rescuer and crew such "misunderstandings" could be prevented.
And it's not a singular instance. Last year a rescuer relapsed from a longline in austria from 15m suffering heavy injuries.
We don't have so much technical failures, that's classic examples for "Human Failure".
Please only for the interested helopilots and not the voyeurs! This isn't a game!
The helicoptercrew cutted the hoist line..., it was only an exercise..., in the border area between france and spain some years ago.
Why should this be happen? How is it to prevent? What's the opinion of the other hoist or short-haul experienced pilots?
I think it's the worst decision or fingertrouble they could ever made and i don't know if i could work as a pilot with such a "mistake"in the future. Poor mission preparation including mental preparation.
The cause was a sudden gust of wind, just at the moment when they were starting the rescue manouvres, which could have led to the helicopter crashing into the mountainside, which would have trapped the rest of the practice team who were below at the time. The rescuer and victim had just been hoisted a couple of metres above the rescue site - the Gendarme de Tuc de Crabes (Aran Valley) when the cable-cutter had to be used to avoid a greater tragedy. But, as the rescue team were already off bealy at the wall, a fact which the helicopter crew were unaware of, they continued to fall, after the initial impact, for a hundred metres down the mountain."
And it's not a singular instance. Last year a rescuer relapsed from a longline in austria from 15m suffering heavy injuries.
We don't have so much technical failures, that's classic examples for "Human Failure".
Not enough $$$ ...
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I was sickened by the video and can't recommend that anyone look at it.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how posting that video adds to the discussion at all. It would be sufficient to say "two people were mistakenly cut off the line and were killed/severely injured in resulting fall".
I have many, many videos of crashes, mishaps, etc, but I only keep those that lend some sort of information as to cause and have some sort of educational value. This video provides no useful information at all and has been permanently removed from my system.
To other viewers - don't bother.
Cheers,
wishtobflying
I'm sorry, but I don't see how posting that video adds to the discussion at all. It would be sufficient to say "two people were mistakenly cut off the line and were killed/severely injured in resulting fall".
I have many, many videos of crashes, mishaps, etc, but I only keep those that lend some sort of information as to cause and have some sort of educational value. This video provides no useful information at all and has been permanently removed from my system.
To other viewers - don't bother.
Cheers,
wishtobflying