I am fairly certain that an ATPL(H) allows the holder to be PIC of a multi-crew helicopter where as a CPL(H) does not.

Yep, you are dead right.

Ok, thanks guys. I guess that means that you can still fly multi-crew but not PIC?
Thanks again

I'd also ask yourself what direction work wise you'd like your flying to go
With the CPL theory you could eventually become an FI
If you decide you'd like an IR (subject to the validity period) you'd need to sit the IR theory exams if you'd only passed the CPL theory , whereas ATPL theory would be sufficient for the IR also . (Only madatory multi crew is North Sea and they'd want an IR for both crew members, and the onshore companies that regularly fly two crew also want IR's)
IMHO do the ATPL's and keep your options open. I see little to no point in merely doing the CPL theory.

True, but you'd have to get that IR within three years otherwise you'd have to sit the (IR relevant) exams again!!

From my perspective, knowing that I stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting an IR within three years, went for the CPL theory option. If I get to the stage of doing an instrument rating, I'd have to sit or resit the exams anyway!

And, given the number of people on the same CPL(H) course as me, I'm not the only one who thinks along these lines!

Cheers

Whirls

Unless you are sure you want to go multi crew (eg North Sea) the CPL(IR) is sufficient, it will save you an awful lot of studying aeroplanes on the ATPL theory (yes its all fixed wing) dont worry about the 7 IR exams if you run out of time for the IR (3 years) they are a piece of cake, you can do them in around 4 months. (yeah I had to do them!)

Regards,
BC.

The CPL is also pretty much fixed wing based!!! I'm jumping through the hoops and hoping that my instructor will tell what what I actually need to know as opposed to what the CAA think I should know!!

Cheers

Whirls

True Whirls, but the good news is there aint as much of it on the CPL theory course as there is on the ATPL course!!!
BTW, can you enlighten me as to where "the land of bishop bonner" is?
Regards,
BC.

True Bladecrack, but the bad news is that CPL(H) students have to cover an element of aeroplane performance whereas the ATPL(H) chaps are exempted!

Cheers

Whirls


PS - Check out my web link - explains all!

Hi Whirls
I distinctinctly remember having to do a hellish 3 hour Performance: Flight Planning and Monitoring exam in my recent ATPL(H) exams. It was pure 100% fixed wing.
No fun at all I can tell you !

ATPL(A) students have 14 exams; (H)s have 13. I was under the impression that the "missing" one was Performance. However, I think Flight Planning might be a different subject even though much of the subject matter may be common to both. Whatever, it's all pretty much plank!

Cheers

Whirls

Dear all
Thanks for the input. As I understand it then, if I want to work North Sea, I must have IR either strapped on at end of CPL or through ATPL.

If you want to work on the North Sea, you will need a CPL/IR. Irrespective of the exams you take, you cannot obtain an ATPL without first obtaining the CPL and an IR. This is because to obtain a JAA ATPL you are required to have experience of piloting Multi-Crew aircraft. As mentioned in an earlier post, you only require an ATPL if you are the Captain of a Multi-Crew aircraft.
It is important that you understand this distinction. You do not get an IR through completing the ATPL exams; you obtain an ATPL through completing the ATPL exams, obtaining an IR, gaining experience in a twin-crew aircraft, plus all the other hours and experience requirements as laid down in JAR-FCL 2.

In the fixed wing world you need a 'frozen ATPL' (ATPL theory exams passed) in order to fly in a multi-crew operation. Is it the same in Helicopters?

Would a CPL and IR level of theory be enough for the North Sea or, like in aeroplanes, do you need the ATPL theory passes as it's multi-crew?

Don't worry - as soon as you get it all straight and understood, someones gonna mention that its all changing

Did someone mention ATPL (VFR)

Not until at least late next year is my current information!

phil

Is that need or do not need ATPL theory for multi-crew helicopter operations? I know you need an actual ATPL licence to be Captain but is CPL and IR theory enough for a co-pilot?

No.

The NS operators are not interested in employing professional FOs. ie pilots who are going to remain as FOs.

They are looking to employ pilots who will eventually be promoted to captains. Therefore, you'll need ATPL theory.



(FYI, the current system of CPL+IR=ATPL is about to be phased out, if it hasn't been already.)

Is there any the difference (apart of a chapter about the jet-stream and another chapter on doppler)?
A few years back I checked the whole syllabus for CPL+IR and ATPL and it was exactly the same.The outstanding difference would be multicrew training.Thats why the JAR says : Anyone that holds a CPL+IR has the knowledge for an ATPL.

Yes, quite a bit.

For example, (and although this is obviously FW orientated), the ATPL Performance paper covers SEP, MEP and MRJT (medium range jet transport - ie 737).

The IR Performance paper only covers SEP and MEP. I've never taken the CPL Performance paper but I imagine that it also only covers SEP and MEP. Therefore, you're missing out on the element that applies most directly to an aspirant ATPL.

Off the top of my head, on the Met paper, the IR syllabus doesn't cover Global Climatology, quite a significant proportion of the ATPL syllabus.


So, yes, in my mind CPL+IR≠ATPL.



PS Please don't turn this into a frustrated discussion of the relevance of the FW syllabus to the RW world. As it stands, we've got to take the same exams (so live with it!)