ATPL(H) or CPL(H)?
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ATPL / CPL - Opinions?
Since the CAA have decided that I am fit enough to hold a Class 1 medical, my thoughts are now turning to getting started on the theory stuff. Because of other commitments I shall be doing distance learning.
I am interested to hear peoples opinions on whether to do the ATPL or CPL course? And the merits / demerits of both?
I appreciate that advertising is not permitted - but any experiences of doing the above via Distance learning with the various providers is appreciated!
Obviously some background is helpful: Currently around a 100 hr PPL(H), and while I have no immediate intention to start an aviation career I would like to get my CPL / FI ratings over the next 5 years or so; perhaps ending up doing odd bits of CPL work and some instructing at the weekends (assuming I am that lucky!). No plans to do an IR within the time frame afforded by an ATPL.
Anyway, all opinions welcomed!
C.
I am interested to hear peoples opinions on whether to do the ATPL or CPL course? And the merits / demerits of both?
I appreciate that advertising is not permitted - but any experiences of doing the above via Distance learning with the various providers is appreciated!
Obviously some background is helpful: Currently around a 100 hr PPL(H), and while I have no immediate intention to start an aviation career I would like to get my CPL / FI ratings over the next 5 years or so; perhaps ending up doing odd bits of CPL work and some instructing at the weekends (assuming I am that lucky!). No plans to do an IR within the time frame afforded by an ATPL.
Anyway, all opinions welcomed!
C.
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I would like to get my CPL / FI ratings over the next 5 years or so; perhaps ending up doing odd bits of CPL work and some instructing at the weekends (assuming I am that lucky!). No plans to do an IR within the time frame afforded by an ATPL.
It seems to me that you have answered your own question here. As I find myself in a similar set of circumstances with no plan to give up my day job just yet and no real desire to fly in multi-crew IR helicopters (mainly North Sea in the UK I guess), the CPL(H) writtens seemed more appropriate. For what it is worth, I am studying with Dragon Helicopters and after I have taken my first set of five exams in July, I'll let you know how it went... So far, I have discovered that the study material seems up to scratch, they are very quick to mark progress tests and answer queries, and I am crap at home study
Let us know what course of action you decide upon and good luck.
DBChopper
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Hi. Did the CPL fixed wing in th '80s and then went back again to do the ATPL about 18 months later. Times have probably changed, but back then it was really frustrating having to go over a load of the same stuff again with a few add ons for the ATPL.
My advice, do the ATPL theory rather than the CPL. Not a lot more content and you'll be more marketable if your aspirations change.
My advice, do the ATPL theory rather than the CPL. Not a lot more content and you'll be more marketable if your aspirations change.
From personal experience you won't get better than Bristol Ground School for distance learning.
http://www.bristol.gs/
http://www.bristol.gs/
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Whichever school you go with, I strongly suggest you do the real-deal helicopter syllabus, rather than the transitional one. Unless you really want to learn about fixed wing, of course. To be honest, I'd probably do the ATPL route even if I wasn't planning to go IR etc, as I'm finding the material really interesting, but then I'm reliably informed that I'm a wierd cow, so my experiences may not be informative .
I'd be happy to give you my recommendation as to which school to attend via PM, if you'd like it.
.I'd be happy to give you my recommendation as to which school to attend via PM, if you'd like it.
Hovering AND talking
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The ATPL exams are only any use if you plan on getting an IR (and working in a multi-crew environment) within three years of passing your exams. If you don’t wish to get an IR, then the only point of the ATPL exams would be for your own interest!
If you did decide, after 5 years to go for the IR, you’d have to do the IR exams, if not the whole ATPL (depending …..)
The standard of the questions between ATPL and CPL is the same but the CPL syllabus is shorter (though not by much apparently!!). PoF is the same paper for CPL and ATPL as is, I believe, HPL.
However, with each exam being £63.00 plus travel costs plus expenses for brush-up courses, a shorter syllabus will be cheaper.
There are three CPL(H) providers; Atlantic (who are under the Interim system – I used them and they are good but it is very fixed wing oriented), Dragon (who have a helicopter specific course) and CAPT (also H-specific). Of these, only CAPT do an H-specific ATPL.
Bristol GS do interim ATPL(H) but not CPL(H). Glasgow has, I believe, ceased to do ATPL studies completely.
Hope that helps,
Cheers
Whirls
If you did decide, after 5 years to go for the IR, you’d have to do the IR exams, if not the whole ATPL (depending …..)
The standard of the questions between ATPL and CPL is the same but the CPL syllabus is shorter (though not by much apparently!!). PoF is the same paper for CPL and ATPL as is, I believe, HPL.
However, with each exam being £63.00 plus travel costs plus expenses for brush-up courses, a shorter syllabus will be cheaper.
There are three CPL(H) providers; Atlantic (who are under the Interim system – I used them and they are good but it is very fixed wing oriented), Dragon (who have a helicopter specific course) and CAPT (also H-specific). Of these, only CAPT do an H-specific ATPL.
Bristol GS do interim ATPL(H) but not CPL(H). Glasgow has, I believe, ceased to do ATPL studies completely.
Hope that helps,
Cheers
Whirls
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I've just finished my final set of ATPL(H) exams via the interim procedure. Yes, many of the subjects studied were irrelevant, but by taking a PPL(A) and two more exams I could have an ATPL(A) also.
I did my modular course via Bristol and were happy with both the training they provided and (more importantly) the way they prepare you for the exams.
I intent top become an FI, but felt that the extra effort to get the ATPL(H) may benefit me in the future should I choose to get an IR. Yes you only (currently) have 3 years to achieve the IR, but that's probably long enough to build a bank of hours via training, get some turbine time and decide what it is you 'really' want to do.
Many jobs look great from the outside, but until you're doing them day in day out you never know. I know my FI is beginning to get fed up of students trying to kill him!
While I was at Bristol GS about a month ago a little birdie told me that the CAA were dropping the interim procedure this July. Anyone starting a modular course after that will have to take the full helicopter course. I know Bristol don't want to be fixed wing only so I'd expect an ATPL(H) course announcement from them soon.
I did my modular course via Bristol and were happy with both the training they provided and (more importantly) the way they prepare you for the exams.
I intent top become an FI, but felt that the extra effort to get the ATPL(H) may benefit me in the future should I choose to get an IR. Yes you only (currently) have 3 years to achieve the IR, but that's probably long enough to build a bank of hours via training, get some turbine time and decide what it is you 'really' want to do.
Many jobs look great from the outside, but until you're doing them day in day out you never know. I know my FI is beginning to get fed up of students trying to kill him!
While I was at Bristol GS about a month ago a little birdie told me that the CAA were dropping the interim procedure this July. Anyone starting a modular course after that will have to take the full helicopter course. I know Bristol don't want to be fixed wing only so I'd expect an ATPL(H) course announcement from them soon.
Hovering AND talking
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but by taking a PPL(A) and two more exams I could have an ATPL(A) also.
Er, no you wouldn’t; you’d have a PPL(A) with ATPL(A) theory credits which is still a PPL(A). You would still have to hour build in an aeroplane and take a CPL(A) flying course as well as the necessary experience and ratings (IR/MCC/ME) requirements to get an ATPL(A).
If one thinks there is a possibility of getting an IR within 3 years, by all means go for the ATPL(H), otherwise the CPL(H) exams are sufficient.
Cheers
Whirls
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From personal experience i would go for ATPL(H) with Bristol G.S. I know some friends of mine didnt get through CPL exams and they were not the only ones. Not blaming Dragon (the school they used) but the exams for CPl are new...i.e the database is new. At least it was 1-2 years ago when they started. Not great feedback so the school cannot help you much.
Bear in mind that Dragon has copied B.G.S bookes anyway(with threir permision) and just removed some bits from them and named them CPL....
Go safe, go with BGS, prefesional people and they will get you through. hammer the database and you'll be fine. You never know, you might change your mind in less than tree years about IR...if not you will just have a normal CPL after 3y...
Good luck
Bear in mind that Dragon has copied B.G.S bookes anyway(with threir permision) and just removed some bits from them and named them CPL....
Go safe, go with BGS, prefesional people and they will get you through. hammer the database and you'll be fine. You never know, you might change your mind in less than tree years about IR...if not you will just have a normal CPL after 3y...
Good luck
Hovering AND talking
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Not strictly true. I've just completed my CPL(H) and I would say that the Bristol feedback was pretty much identical to the real thing so exam practice was plentiful. But I didn't go to Dragon.
I can't see any point doing ATPL exams just to go to Bristol Ground School; there are many more providers out there now!
Cheers
Whirls
I can't see any point doing ATPL exams just to go to Bristol Ground School; there are many more providers out there now!
Cheers
Whirls
heli-mad
Your comments on Dragon's CPL (H) are prejudicial and incorrect. Many of the modules draw from the same question database as the modules for the ATPL. The exact same questions. There may be some new ones in there (especially in AGK), and the amalgamation of and number of themes, length of exams and number of questions may differ ATPL & CPL, but that is all.
I have no interest in promoting either BGS or Dragon, but if your friends didn't pass CPL with Dragon, they probably didn't put the graft in. And they would likely also have also failed ATPL with BGS. Ultimately, it's the student who has to be "prefesional"
TT
Your comments on Dragon's CPL (H) are prejudicial and incorrect. Many of the modules draw from the same question database as the modules for the ATPL. The exact same questions. There may be some new ones in there (especially in AGK), and the amalgamation of and number of themes, length of exams and number of questions may differ ATPL & CPL, but that is all.
I have no interest in promoting either BGS or Dragon, but if your friends didn't pass CPL with Dragon, they probably didn't put the graft in. And they would likely also have also failed ATPL with BGS. Ultimately, it's the student who has to be "prefesional"
TT
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guys dont shoot......... if you read correctly i dint say anyhting bad about Dragon. I just said when my friends did it it was new exams and feedback was not great. Was this a reason that they didnt pass exams? I think it had something to do with it.
TT,
I have to agree with you though, students have to be profesional, so does the school. I do not have any interest in either schools and as stated in the begining of my post its from my personal experience doing ATPL(H)
I am sorry if i didnt make my point clearer...
Good luck anyway to our friend that started the post with his descision, i am sure that things are a lot better with most schools now.
H-M
TT,
I have to agree with you though, students have to be profesional, so does the school. I do not have any interest in either schools and as stated in the begining of my post its from my personal experience doing ATPL(H)
I am sorry if i didnt make my point clearer...
Good luck anyway to our friend that started the post with his descision, i am sure that things are a lot better with most schools now.
H-M
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Thanks for all your replies folks. Will absorb all the info and make a decision... veering toward the ATPL(H) at the moment; if for no other reason than the extra information!!
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Regarding new exams and lack of feedback:
The CAA inform me that I'm the first person in the UK to write the non-transitional ATPL(H) exams. I've only written 4 of them so far, and I don't have the results just yet (this week, one hopes!), but I can definately say that I wasn't uncomfortable writing them, as my school made every effort to teach me the necessary stuff. The question banks have most of the questions (although there were a few new ones), but the syllabus I studied from covered everything. If the syllabus is known (as the ATPL(H) one is), then lack of feedback makes no difference at all; you still have the option of protesting a question if you feel it's unfair!
My suggestion would be to choose a school that teaches you the material, not one that helps you memorise questions.
The CAA inform me that I'm the first person in the UK to write the non-transitional ATPL(H) exams. I've only written 4 of them so far, and I don't have the results just yet (this week, one hopes!), but I can definately say that I wasn't uncomfortable writing them, as my school made every effort to teach me the necessary stuff. The question banks have most of the questions (although there were a few new ones), but the syllabus I studied from covered everything. If the syllabus is known (as the ATPL(H) one is), then lack of feedback makes no difference at all; you still have the option of protesting a question if you feel it's unfair!
My suggestion would be to choose a school that teaches you the material, not one that helps you memorise questions.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Let's not forget Bristow Academy, with whom we now have an arrangement for consolidation weeks in the USA.
Phil
Phil
Can't wait till my PPL(H) flight training in the US. All I need is June already
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Yes, the exams can be done over there as well.
Extending Pandalet's point, if the notes are properly written and the student does the work, there is no need for the frenetic consolidation weeks I keep hearing about.
Phil
Extending Pandalet's point, if the notes are properly written and the student does the work, there is no need for the frenetic consolidation weeks I keep hearing about.
Phil
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ATPL(H)
Pandalet.
Your last sentence is so right.
Paco.
Way to go.
Everbody thinks there is an easier way. Why read the notes when you can memorise thousands of questions? Guess which pilots finish up with the best jobs?
Keep spreading the commonsense.
Your last sentence is so right.
Paco.
Way to go.
Everbody thinks there is an easier way. Why read the notes when you can memorise thousands of questions? Guess which pilots finish up with the best jobs?
Keep spreading the commonsense.