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R22 & R44 blade delamination

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Old 3rd Apr 2007, 06:41
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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Application of blade tape - unless this procedure is documented within the maintenance manual or someone raises an STC or mod for it, keep in mind that it is an ILLEGAL modification!
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Old 3rd Apr 2007, 08:10
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Obviously any fitting of blade tape would have to be approved.

Blade tape affects autorotative RPM and blade performance.

It can bring problems of it's own i.e asymetric loss of tape.

On a light blade it might affect the fatigue characteristics.

All these issues would have to be addressed before blade tape was approved.
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Old 3rd Apr 2007, 10:57
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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Agreed, we'll see what comes out of it re blade tape.

By co-incidence this story about WD40 came across my emails this afternoon. Now we should know all there is to know about the stuff. I've left it as is, a bit of a long story.


INTERESTING INFO


Water Displacement #40. The product began from a search for a rust preventative solvent and de greaser to protect missile parts. WD- 40 was created in 1953 by three technicians at the San Diego Rocket Chemical Company. Its name comes from the project that was to find a "water displacement" compound. They were successful with the fortieth formulation, thus WD-40. The Corvair Company bought it in bulk to protect their atlas missile parts.


The workers were so pleased with the product, they began smuggling (also known as "shrinkage" or "stealing") it out to use at home. The executives decided there might be a consumer market for it and put it in aerosol cans. The rest, as they say, is history.

It is a carefully guarded recipe known only to four people. Only one of them is the "brew master." There are about 2.5 million gallons of the stuff manufactured each year. It gets its distinctive smell from a fragrance that is added to the brew.< /SPAN>

Ken East (one of the original founders) says there is nothing in WD-40 that would hurt you.

When you read the "shower door" part, try it. It's the first thing that has ever cleaned that spotty shower door. If yours is plastic, it works just as well as glass. It's a miracle!

Then try it on your stovetop... Viola! It's now shinier than it's ever been. You' all be amazed.

Here are some of the uses:

Protects silver from tarnishing.

Cleans and lubricates guitar strings.

Gives floors that 'just-waxed' sheen without making it slippery.

Keeps flies off cows.

Restores and cleans chalkboards.

Removes lipstick stains.

Loosens stubborn zippers.

Untangles jewellery chains.

Removes stains from stainless steel sinks.

Removes dirt and grime from the barbecue grill.

Keeps ceramic/terra cotta garden pots from oxidizing.

Removes tomato stains from clothing.

Keeps glass shower doors free of water spots.

Camouflages scratches in ceramic and marble floors.

Keeps scissors working smoothly.

Lubricates noisy door hinges on vehicles and doors in homes.

Gives a children's play gym slide a shine for a super fast slide.

Lubricates gear shift and mower deck lever for ease of handling on riding mowers.

Rids kids rocking chairs and swings of squeaky noises.

Lubricates tracks in sticking home windows and makes them easier to open.

Spraying an umbrella stem makes it easier to open and close.

Restores and cleans padded leather dashboards in vehicles, as well as vinyl bumpers.

Restores and cleans roof racks on vehicles.

Lubricates and stops squeaks in electric fans.

Lubricates wheel sprockets on tricycles, wagons, and bicycles for easy handling.

Lubricates fan belts on washers and dryers and keeps them running smoothly.

Keeps rust from forming on saws and saw blades, and other tools.

Removes splattered grease on stove.

Keeps bathroom mirror from fogging.

Lubricates prosthetic limbs.

Keeps pigeons off the balcony (they hate the smell).

Removes all traces of duct tape.

Folks even spray it on their arms, hands, and knees to relieve arthritis pain.

Florida's favourite use is: "cleans and removes love bugs from grills and bumpers."

The favourite use in the state of New York--WD-40 protects the Statue of Liberty from the elements.

WD-40 attracts fish. Spray a LITTLE on live bait or lures and you will be catching the big one in no time. Also, it's a lot cheaper than the chemical attractants that are made for just that purpose. I eep in mind though, using some chemical laced baits or lures for fishing are not allowed in some states.

Use it for fire ant bites. It takes the sting away immediately and stops the itch.

WD-40 is great for removing crayon from walls. Spray on the mark and wipe with a clean rag.

Also, if you've discovered that your teenage daughter has washed and dried a tube of lipstick with a load of laundry, saturate the lipstick spots with WD-40 and re-wash. Presto! Lipstick is gone!

If you sprayed WD-40 on the distributor cap, it would displace the mo issuer and allow the car to start.

It removes black scuff marks from the kitchen floor!

Use WD-40 for those nasty tar and scuff marks on flooring. It doesn't seem to harm the finish and you won't have to scrub nearly as hard to get them off. Just remember to open some windows if you have a lot of marks.

Bug guts will eat away the finish on your car if not removed quickly! Use WD-40!

UP. S. The basic ingredient is FISH OIL
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Old 3rd Apr 2007, 15:24
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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If it keeps off cows why would you need it to remove lipstick marks!!!!!!!!!


Sorry misread that, it keeps flies off cows..........................

Last edited by ericferret; 3rd Apr 2007 at 15:26. Reason: error
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Old 10th Apr 2007, 07:22
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Have we heard the end of this whole thing or will the ATSB issue a report? Hopefully they won't wait for too long.

I know a lot of nervous pilots (and their families) waiting for some well deserved answers.

I'm afraid the "lick of paint" reaction don't cut it.
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Old 10th Apr 2007, 17:00
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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http://www.robinsonheli.com/srvclib/r22sb96.pdf

http://www.robinsonheli.com/srvclib/r44sb61.pdf
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Old 12th Apr 2007, 04:25
  #127 (permalink)  

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Just received SB-96 with details of the compliance procedure. I'm fine with the x10 inspection but the tap test is a challenge.

"Tap test all exposed skin-to-spar bonded areas with a 1965 or later U.S. quarter-dollar coin."

Now where am I going to find one of those on a cattle station in Queensland???
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Old 12th Apr 2007, 09:26
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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So let me get this straight, this is a once of inspection required? Then what? What about the blades that had less than 50 hrs and both were coming delaminated in North Queensland three weeks ago. Robinson has a bigger responsibility than just issuing this SB.

I would be loathed to fly one of these pieces of *$#^ after I've seen what has happened. Every time a Robbie goes down with even the slightest hint of loss of control I won't be the only one wondering.

Money talks right...

One more thing, how does "excessive erosion" occur after less than 50 hours?
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Old 13th Jun 2007, 08:25
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Yet another missive from Robinson, here.

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION REGARDING MAIN ROTOR BLADE SKIN DEBONDING
To: All R22 and R44 Owners, Operators, and Service Centers

RHC has recently issued Safety Alerts and Service Bulletins to address debonding at the outboard end of the main rotor blade lower skin. Although there have been several reports of blade skins beginning to debond, the problem has not been random or widespread. It has been limited to blades subject to excessive erosion and/or corrosion.

On one blade, a large area of corrosion between the lower skin and bonded-in cap at the tip of the blade caused the outboard few inches of skin to peel up. All other debonded blade skins examined by RHC were the result of excessive erosion at the skin-to-spar bond line. The bond joint is exposed when all finish (paint and primer) has been eroded at the bond line. An exposed joint can allow rain and dust particles to damage the adhesive bond at the skin’s leading edge. Operators flying low in dusty environments should be particularly alert to the condition of their blades.

Pilots should look at the lower outboard surface of the blades at each preflight (at least once per refueling). It is easy to check for excessive erosion. (Erosion is always worse on the lower surface due to the angle of attack of the blade in flight.) The bond line is approximately one inch aft of the blade leading edge and is visible as a straight line when exposed. Blades with bare metal up to, or aft of, the bond line must be refinished per R22 SL-56/R44 SL-32 before further flight to prevent bond joint damage. As long as finish covers the bond line, bond damage due to erosion should not occur. If the bond line is not exposed, pilots should check that no visible crack in the paint exists along the bond line. Mechanics must check for corrosion between the skin and tip cap by performing a tap test during 100-hour inspections.

Recently manufactured blades have had production tolerances tightened to minimize the width of the bond line and reduce susceptibility to erosion damage. However, these improvements are not a substitute for appropriate maintenance and preflight inspections.
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Old 13th Jun 2007, 09:05
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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I have emailed RHC this afternoon after receiving the letter that John posted.

With all the RHC products flying in remote areas simply to say keep repainting the blades is often not a viable solution. I feel they have an obligation to do better.
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Old 13th Jun 2007, 09:38
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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The Robinson helicopter is the dodgiest bucket of puss or should I say death trap machine ever built. Its the helicopter that has killed more pilots than any other machine on the planet, some blades delaminate even in the box prior to installation, sad & very scary. Many young (time wise) pilots blindly worship them as if they were the best thing since a trusty ole' Jetbox, sadly though the wrecks of machines & wrecked families lives paint a different story. Ask on honest L.A.M.E. who has worked on a variety of machines for a few years for their appraisal of a Robinson. If we all got together boycotted flying these rickety hazardous contraptions, maybe, just maybe Mr Robinson may build something descant.
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Old 13th Jun 2007, 10:51
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not here looking for an argument with anyone just expressing my view.

I do find this forum extremely informative and a valuable piece of information.

I am a low hours PPL and now fly both the R22 and R44. I have little experience of other aircraft and i hope to progress when my hours / experience allows.

I understand the problems with Robinsons and the high casualty rates. I do understand why many pilots dont hold robbos in high regard.

I expect there is a distinct correlation between the high number of 22's out there and the relative inexperiance of the pilots flying them ( myself included ) and this relationship probably contributes to a great deal of incidents each year.

Without the 22 i would probably not have started flying. The 22 makes the learning and hour building process marginally affordable.

I would also imagine there are quite a few commercial pilots that wouldnt be in employment now without robinson helicopters. As an instructor valuable hours are gained in these aircraft to enable a commercial pilot to move on to bigger and better things.

Donkey73
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Old 13th Jun 2007, 11:42
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Well said Donkey.

The massive numbers of cumulative hours flown in Robinsons (by many low time pilots and private owners around the world) accounts for the number of accidents recorded.
With the 22 it was carb ice and rotor stall.
Now we have some delamination issues with 22 and 44.

Am I going to sell my 44 and buy (for the same money an old) Jet Ranger, EC120 or Hughes500? - Hell no! I love my 44 - I've had it from new, been the only pilot and tucked it up in its little hangar every night safe and sound away from the elements.

Good preventative maintenance coupled with careful flying in half decent conditions seems the right combination to minimise the risk of sudden death in any aircraft.

Dodgy bucket of puss? I don't think so, especially when you consider the overwhelming chasm of cost between the Robinson products and the alternatives. At the end of the day mechanical failure remains low down on the list of causes of helicopter accidents. Doing something dumb remains firmly at the top and we should remember this.

SB
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Old 13th Jun 2007, 13:19
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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I also congratulate donkey boy.

It seems amazing that everyone buckets the R22 for all the training accidents for instance, but completely misses the point that by and large it is the only training machine around at this point in time.

Just imagine if all the training was done in squirrells, hydraulic problems?? down time with engine problems while the component is returned to Frrrannnsss? etc. etc.

However the chinese fella has hit a chord, the problems with securing the paint to do the called up mod and the time taken for the paint to dry just don't add up to commercial sense.

C'mon you Robinson factory guys give us a break mate, we need a quick dry, readily available hard paint to use that can be easily bought in other countries.

It's not too hard is it, just a tim of paint and a US quarter and Bob's your uncle, we'll be happy?
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Old 13th Jun 2007, 14:43
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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Just read in a previous post about WD-40. Out of interest it stands for "Water Despersant - 40", the "40" was the chaps 40th attempt to make it work... and it did. Handy stuff.

TiP
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Old 13th Jun 2007, 15:20
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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Major thread drift but interesting nonetheless

TIPWEIGHT "the "40" was the chaps 40th attempt to make it work... and it did. Handy stuff."

Just like it took Dr Christian Barnard 42 tries (42 on table and postop deaths) before he and his team succeeded in performing the first successful heart transplant - can you imagine that kind of thing being allowed in this day and age?

Try try try again!

SB
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Old 13th Jun 2007, 23:32
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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Pat Cox from RHC replied to me and advised that their engineers are working on a better solution to the problem.

IMHO part of the field issues with Robinson is that people are so used to working on 206 and other more robust machines, that they tend to gloss over the often very specific called up maintenance actions/inspections.

RHC know their machines well and this is obvious in the very detailed inspection criteria in certain areas. What could be passed off as ok in a 206 (Blade erosion for instance) is obviously not ok in a RHC product.

The point I raised with RHC was that it is a bit unrealistic to expect remote area operators to have access to painting facilties/equipment/expertise.
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Old 24th Nov 2007, 04:06
  #138 (permalink)  
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STC

Airwolf Aerospace STC Prevents Delamination of Robinson Helicopter Rotor Blades

Airwolf Aerospace LLC, a division of Airwolf Filter Corp, a world leader in firewall-forward accessories for aero-engines, has been awarded FAA STC# SR02491CH to prevent permanently the leading-edge skin delamination occurring on Robinson R22 and R44 helicopter main rotor blades.

The factory Service Bulletin notes that main rotor blade skins begin to debond (separate) at the skin-to-spar bond line on the lower surface near the blade tip. Debonding can occur when the bond line is exposed due to excessive erosion of the blade finish, or when corrosion occurs on the internal aluminum tip cap.

Robinson Helicopter Company has issued Service Bulletins to inspect and address the problem using repeat-as-necessary paint applied to the affected areas, while Airwolf’s STC comprises a permanent, one-time application of Airwolf Rotor Blade Protective Tape (RBPT) to the outer section of the main rotorblades.

There are over 8,000 Robinson R22s and R44s on North American and international registers. Airwolf’s one-time solution eliminates the need for blade repainting.

Jonny Quest, Airwolf technical director, said this STC solves a recurring problem. “The factory ‘solution’ is really a band-aid, while ours is simple and permanent,” he said. “It comprises the application of a specially-formulated adhesive polymer tape which has been time-tested by the military in both the Gulf War and the Iraq war.

“Water, dust, sand and other contaminates can’t penetrate the tape, while the factory ‘paint solution’ requires repetitive inspections and continual repainting throughout the blade life,” he added. “However, the risk of a blade delamination is still great and the replacement cost very expensive if this occurs. The Airwolf RBPT is inexpensive insurance to prevent this from happening.”
Link here.
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Old 24th Nov 2007, 09:23
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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Please note that the STC referred to above is not approved by RHC. As has been stated previously on this thread, blade tape is not approved by RHC for a variety of reasons.

Until the factory come up with a treatment, the only way to deal with this is thorough Check As every day. (In the UK that is mandatory for every helicopter) You don't need a ladder - you just need to look up to the bond line and maybe use a bright light to look ALONG the bond line.

What are talking here - 30 secs a blade ?

Isn't that what you were taught ?
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Old 4th Jan 2008, 08:55
  #140 (permalink)  
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FAA AD on R22/R44 blade debonding

FAA calls for comments on AD for blade debonding on Robinson R22 and R44

FAA issues AD for blade debonding on Robinson R22 and R44
AGENCY: Federal Aviation Administration, DOT.

ACTION: Final rule; request for comments.

SUMMARY: This amendment adopts a new airworthiness directive (AD) for the specified Robinson Helicopter Company (Robinson) helicopters. This action requires a one-time visual inspection for skin separation along the leading edge of blade skin aft of the skin-to-spar bond line on the lower surface of each blade and in the tip cap area. This action also requires a "tap test'' for detecting a separation or void in both bonded areas. This action also requires repainting any exposed area of the blades. If any separation or void is detected, replacing the blade before further flight is required. Thereafter, before each flight, this AD also requires checking for any exposed (bare metal) along the skin-to-spar bond line on the lower surface of each blade near the tip. If any bare metal is found, a mechanic must inspect the area. This amendment is prompted by 11 reports of blade debond, some occurring in flight causing the pilot to feel excessive vibrations and land, and some found during routine maintenance. The actions specified in this AD are intended to detect blade skin debond and to prevent blade failure and subsequent loss of control of the helicopter.

DATES: Effective January 18, 2008.
The incorporation by reference of certain publications listed in the regulations is approved by the Director of the Federal Register as of January 18, 2008.
Comments for inclusion in the Rules Docket must be received on or before March 3, 2008.

ADDRESSES: Use one of the following addresses to submit comments on this AD:

Government-wide rulemaking Web site: Go to http://www.regulations.gov and follow the instructions for sending your comments electronically;
Mail: U.S. Department of Transportation, Docket Operations, M-30, West Building, Ground Floor, Room W12-140, 1200 New Jersey Avenue, SE., Washington, DC 20590;

Hand Delivery: Deliver to the "Mail'' address between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m., Monday through Friday, except Federal holidays; or

Fax: (202) 493-2251.

You may get the service information identified in this AD from Robinson Helicopter Company, 2901 Airport Drive, Torrance, CA 90505, telephone (310) 539-0508, fax (310) 539-5198.
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