When is Training for Safety Not Enough?
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 243
Likes: 1
From: West of zero
SASless,
Absolutely spot on!!! This is why "national" weather minimums make no sense at all, and why "local" minimums should be determined by the pilots with the most experience in the area. And makes the case for NVGs and NVG training very eloquently.
BTW, how much does a remote weather reporting station (ASOS/AWOS) cost? Maybe a case could be made to mount some in the areas you describe even if there's no airport, so that EMS flights don't have to contend with such large gaps in weather reports.
Absolutely spot on!!! This is why "national" weather minimums make no sense at all, and why "local" minimums should be determined by the pilots with the most experience in the area. And makes the case for NVGs and NVG training very eloquently.
BTW, how much does a remote weather reporting station (ASOS/AWOS) cost? Maybe a case could be made to mount some in the areas you describe even if there's no airport, so that EMS flights don't have to contend with such large gaps in weather reports.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque NM USA
Buitenzorg & SASless,
>Absolutely spot on!!! This is why "national" weather minimums make
>no sense at all, and why "local" minimums should be determined by
>the pilots with the most experience >in the area. And makes the
>case for NVGs and NVG training very eloquently.
First SaSless, thanks for pointing out how the “world” ends when you
leave metropolitan areas out west in the U.S.
Buitenzorg: I disagree with not raising “national” minimums. I think
we should, simply because if the legal minimums are 500/2 and the crew decides to “go take a look” based on the weather being legal, they are
going out in crap weather to begin with. A former fellow pilot referred
to this as, “!!!!!ty legal”. With 500/2 minimums, they most certainly
wouldn’t go to the aircraft for 200/1 to take a look would they? But
with these low minimums at reporting stations, it doesn’t guarantee it’s
not 200/1, 5 miles away on their route of flight. So if their new, higher
mins are 1000/4 and want to “go take a look”, then we might assume
they will find something closer to 1000/4 vs say 200/2 on the other side
of the airport.
Higher regulated minimums would mandate a greater cushion, especially ceilings. It would also force competitors to the same level instead of
one operator voluntarily raising their own minimums for safety concerns
and another not for competitive reasons. Then, at the local level, the minimums can be adjusted higher for specific geographical conditions
new pilots, airspace considerations and so forth.
>BTW, how much does a remote weather reporting station
(ASOS/AWOS) cost?
We are in the process of trying to get some grant money to place a few remote weather stations out in some of our weather reporting holes here. The cheapest equipment I’ve seen - temp, dewpoint, wind speed and direction and ceiling is about USD25K. That does not include site prep, utilities and the like. The locations we are interested in are remote
clinics which have power and phone systems, reducing costs. To my knowledge, a full blown commercial system at a typical airport might
run USD100K or more.
Ron Powell
PHI Air Medical
Albuquerque NM
>Absolutely spot on!!! This is why "national" weather minimums make
>no sense at all, and why "local" minimums should be determined by
>the pilots with the most experience >in the area. And makes the
>case for NVGs and NVG training very eloquently.
First SaSless, thanks for pointing out how the “world” ends when you
leave metropolitan areas out west in the U.S.
Buitenzorg: I disagree with not raising “national” minimums. I think
we should, simply because if the legal minimums are 500/2 and the crew decides to “go take a look” based on the weather being legal, they are
going out in crap weather to begin with. A former fellow pilot referred
to this as, “!!!!!ty legal”. With 500/2 minimums, they most certainly
wouldn’t go to the aircraft for 200/1 to take a look would they? But
with these low minimums at reporting stations, it doesn’t guarantee it’s
not 200/1, 5 miles away on their route of flight. So if their new, higher
mins are 1000/4 and want to “go take a look”, then we might assume
they will find something closer to 1000/4 vs say 200/2 on the other side
of the airport.
Higher regulated minimums would mandate a greater cushion, especially ceilings. It would also force competitors to the same level instead of
one operator voluntarily raising their own minimums for safety concerns
and another not for competitive reasons. Then, at the local level, the minimums can be adjusted higher for specific geographical conditions
new pilots, airspace considerations and so forth.
>BTW, how much does a remote weather reporting station
(ASOS/AWOS) cost?
We are in the process of trying to get some grant money to place a few remote weather stations out in some of our weather reporting holes here. The cheapest equipment I’ve seen - temp, dewpoint, wind speed and direction and ceiling is about USD25K. That does not include site prep, utilities and the like. The locations we are interested in are remote
clinics which have power and phone systems, reducing costs. To my knowledge, a full blown commercial system at a typical airport might
run USD100K or more.
Ron Powell
PHI Air Medical
Albuquerque NM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
From: Region 5 / Region 4 / and sometimes Region 8?
In addition to installing new ASOS/AWOS equipment, it would be helpfull to make all of the other remote weather observation stations more accessible to pilots.
Such things as RAWS (i.e.) and highway monitoring cameras and weather stations can augment aviation specific weather data. Perhaps it would be possible to enhance these types of stations to add cig. and vis. data if there is a need in a specific operational area rather than building a new station.
Such things as RAWS (i.e.) and highway monitoring cameras and weather stations can augment aviation specific weather data. Perhaps it would be possible to enhance these types of stations to add cig. and vis. data if there is a need in a specific operational area rather than building a new station.
Last edited by Hiro Protagonist; 27th March 2006 at 00:39.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
From: With my head in the clouds
Hello,
I've been going through old threads to learn more about the industry.
Would anyone happen to have a copy of the presentation Nick references in the thread starter that they could share with me? The link is no longer active.
Thanks,
Jolly
I've been going through old threads to learn more about the industry.
Would anyone happen to have a copy of the presentation Nick references in the thread starter that they could share with me? The link is no longer active.
Thanks,
Jolly
