Tail boom camera?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tail boom camera?
Flew into a tight'ish spot yesterday and thought afterwards how useful it would be to have a view of/from the caboose - see they are rife for remote control machines, but what about the real thing?
The technology has been there for quite a few years - the big plank wing stuff already uses them - and they may be a wonderful idea but no matter how light.... weight ... emc ... c of g ... and the high the cost of certification may well be why they are not already in your favourite rotary craft.
Aside from that - would you be able to mount such a camera in a position that gives you a view of the bits that might hit the scenary without resorting to a 'fish-eye' lens that would badly distort your view?
Finally [from me anyway] - would the CAA allow you to land watching a monitor rather than out of the glazing .... ?
Aside from that - would you be able to mount such a camera in a position that gives you a view of the bits that might hit the scenary without resorting to a 'fish-eye' lens that would badly distort your view?
Finally [from me anyway] - would the CAA allow you to land watching a monitor rather than out of the glazing .... ?
Docstone,
Check out Geneva Aviation || Products
Specifically, the P129 Horizontal Stabilizer Camera Mount (for Bell 206/407/AS350).
Check out Geneva Aviation || Products
Specifically, the P129 Horizontal Stabilizer Camera Mount (for Bell 206/407/AS350).
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: N20,W99
Age: 53
Posts: 1,119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have flown two helicopters with boom mounted cameras, SaudiAramco's Agusta 109E's have them so that pilots can monitor what is going on outside while doing their thing, and there is a Bell 430 next door that has one so that the pilots can monitor where they are putting the wheels on soft ground.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cameras
We have three cameras mounted on our AW139's for Saudi Aramco. One camera is mounted on the vertical fin looking forward. We can see both sides of the helicopter to include the baggage compartments. That was the orginal purpose for that one. You can also see the rest of the helicopter from the rotor head to the landing gear.
The other two cameras were designed for the cargo hook. One camera looks aft at the hook and the other camera looks straight down at the load. We are using the look down camera to observe our hoisting operation.
We can display all three cameras at once on the MFD or select one at a time.
It works well.
The other two cameras were designed for the cargo hook. One camera looks aft at the hook and the other camera looks straight down at the load. We are using the look down camera to observe our hoisting operation.
We can display all three cameras at once on the MFD or select one at a time.
It works well.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: on
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tailboom cameras for longline work ?
Question:
Would you say that a camera mounted on the tip of stinger of, say, a Super Puma, could ease and maybe bring (even) more precision to longline work?
Have some ideas, but first of all:
Anybody with some experience with this type of operation ?
Cheers
Would you say that a camera mounted on the tip of stinger of, say, a Super Puma, could ease and maybe bring (even) more precision to longline work?
Have some ideas, but first of all:
Anybody with some experience with this type of operation ?
Cheers
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UK
Age: 47
Posts: 1,595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We were just discussing tail rotor emergencies and it would be really nice to know what is going on with your tail so a camera looking at it would help but then again how often will you be having a tail emergency which warrant such expenditure but these things are getting smaller and smaller and cheaper all the time so why not one day. But the Saudi Aramaco sounds excellent.
I can see it being very useful on the Northsea.
I can see it being very useful on the Northsea.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: West Africa
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lets say your on the ground and want to keep the aircraft running but still want to keep an eye on the tail.
And lets assume we have two pilots on board.
Not for inflight approach to a confined...
.
HF
And lets assume we have two pilots on board.
Not for inflight approach to a confined...
.HF
Last edited by HELOFAN; 26th Aug 2008 at 14:34.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Variable
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
S61n
Assuming you are referring to a camera pointing straight down, the answer is no. True longlining means looking straight down anyway and the camera would be superfluous, vibration at the end of the stinger will also pose problems and a better arrangement would be at the hook as currently used and mentioned by funderrc. The S-70 FireHawks in the US use a vertical camera for fire fighting and the results are not impressive. A camera will never give you the same field of view, depth perception and resolution as just sticking your head out the door, even if it does make the seating position more comfortable. It would be a "nice to have" to monitor the load in forward flight on long legs though.
Assuming you are referring to a camera pointing straight down, the answer is no. True longlining means looking straight down anyway and the camera would be superfluous, vibration at the end of the stinger will also pose problems and a better arrangement would be at the hook as currently used and mentioned by funderrc. The S-70 FireHawks in the US use a vertical camera for fire fighting and the results are not impressive. A camera will never give you the same field of view, depth perception and resolution as just sticking your head out the door, even if it does make the seating position more comfortable. It would be a "nice to have" to monitor the load in forward flight on long legs though.
would the CAA allow you to land watching a monitor rather than out of the glazing
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia/Canada
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bluethunder had one, roy used it to take out those jetrangers,...............guns blazing................bang....bang..bang.....bang......bang , oh no..........aahhhhhh.......
I fear that I am losing my mind. Anyway got to go flying.
I fear that I am losing my mind. Anyway got to go flying.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: on
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
for jab
Thank you for your opinion, jab, and for the info re the Firehawk.
However, your assumption is wrong. I do not refer to a camera pointing straight down. A camera in such a position would, as you have pointed out, leave you with less resolution, and a lot less depth perception than your two blue normally allows.
If you were using a wide angle lens on such a camera, you would probably be able to see the area below and around your load, but your idea re the vertical distance/depth perception would suffer even more.
In short, and as you suggested, instead of relying a camera pointing straight down from a point somewhere near the hook, you'd be far better served by just sticking your head out.
However, what if you could somehow place your eyes somewhere far behind the load, as in a camera lense placed on the tip of a stinger, (or preferably even further back, if that had been possible), wouldn't that mean that you could somehow "fly" your slingload to its point of destination, and wouldn't such a viewing angle to a some extent remove that "difficult" element of (vertical) depth perception, since you are no longer viewing your load not from (almost) directly above, but rather somewhat obliquely.
It would per your definition no longer be true longlining ( as in .."means looking straight down"), but maybe it could still serve its purpose of a precise cargo delivery by means of a long line.
And, just for the record,
anytime that you're moving about close to the ground as an FP you'd like to have your attention on whats going on outside the cockpit.
Gluing your attention to some screen on the pedestal whilst below, say, 300ft, may be asking for it, unless, of course, you're part of a two crew operation.
If you're operating a "large" helo, like an AS332 or S61, you already have your extra crewmember.
So back to the question: Anyone with any experience with the use of tailmounted cameras for the purpose of load control?
cheers
However, your assumption is wrong. I do not refer to a camera pointing straight down. A camera in such a position would, as you have pointed out, leave you with less resolution, and a lot less depth perception than your two blue normally allows.
If you were using a wide angle lens on such a camera, you would probably be able to see the area below and around your load, but your idea re the vertical distance/depth perception would suffer even more.
In short, and as you suggested, instead of relying a camera pointing straight down from a point somewhere near the hook, you'd be far better served by just sticking your head out.
However, what if you could somehow place your eyes somewhere far behind the load, as in a camera lense placed on the tip of a stinger, (or preferably even further back, if that had been possible), wouldn't that mean that you could somehow "fly" your slingload to its point of destination, and wouldn't such a viewing angle to a some extent remove that "difficult" element of (vertical) depth perception, since you are no longer viewing your load not from (almost) directly above, but rather somewhat obliquely.
It would per your definition no longer be true longlining ( as in .."means looking straight down"), but maybe it could still serve its purpose of a precise cargo delivery by means of a long line.
And, just for the record,
anytime that you're moving about close to the ground as an FP you'd like to have your attention on whats going on outside the cockpit.
Gluing your attention to some screen on the pedestal whilst below, say, 300ft, may be asking for it, unless, of course, you're part of a two crew operation.
If you're operating a "large" helo, like an AS332 or S61, you already have your extra crewmember.
So back to the question: Anyone with any experience with the use of tailmounted cameras for the purpose of load control?
cheers
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Variable
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
s61n
Bit of a thread drift but it is still valid.
Ok, I get where you're going with this and it may work for regular slinging using a crewman for directions but I seriously doubt anyone would bother if they were doing true longlining, I wont. I am not shooting down the idea, there are certain applications where it will work but not in the production longlining environment where time means money.
If you mount the screen in the door close to your instruments (For those who have instruments mounted in the door or floor) you may struggle with reflection. Changing focus between a small screen and whatever you are slinging 70 to 300 feet below you is going to be challenging and will necessitate shorter lines being used just to keep the load in the screen.
A controllable zoom camera/view will require a bit more dexterity and excess brainpower to interpret but could help. An oblique view from the tail stinger will help to judge height when doing precision work, if there are no shadows to assist. As another point to ponder, when will technology enable fore and aft mounted cameras to show a 3D view, or a reasonable impression of depth perception to be shown on a screen, superimposed images like a stereographic projection?
For other flying, I do like the idea of a forward or aft looking camera to ensure clearance from obstacles in a LZ. Takes some of the guesswork out of the equation.
Bit of a thread drift but it is still valid.
Ok, I get where you're going with this and it may work for regular slinging using a crewman for directions but I seriously doubt anyone would bother if they were doing true longlining, I wont. I am not shooting down the idea, there are certain applications where it will work but not in the production longlining environment where time means money.
If you mount the screen in the door close to your instruments (For those who have instruments mounted in the door or floor) you may struggle with reflection. Changing focus between a small screen and whatever you are slinging 70 to 300 feet below you is going to be challenging and will necessitate shorter lines being used just to keep the load in the screen.
A controllable zoom camera/view will require a bit more dexterity and excess brainpower to interpret but could help. An oblique view from the tail stinger will help to judge height when doing precision work, if there are no shadows to assist. As another point to ponder, when will technology enable fore and aft mounted cameras to show a 3D view, or a reasonable impression of depth perception to be shown on a screen, superimposed images like a stereographic projection?
For other flying, I do like the idea of a forward or aft looking camera to ensure clearance from obstacles in a LZ. Takes some of the guesswork out of the equation.
