Certification of Robinson Helicopters (incl post by Frank Robinson)
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Robinson Revisited
I was just informed that the NTSB is reopening the 1996 investigation relative to the rotor loss / rotor incursion accidents that occurred in the year 2000. I was also told that the FAA is not involved in this investigation at this time. More info to follow.
I should have noted that the purpose of this posting was for information purposes only. It is not intended to resurrect the original postings about Robinson certification and all of the vitriol that was generated as a result of my original posting..
The next posting will be a transcript of a meeting held by a newspaper reporter and Mr. Jim Hall of the NTSB. That will most likely be the last posting until the NTSB report is completed.
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The Cat
[This message has been edited by Lu Zuckerman (edited 17 February 2001).]
I should have noted that the purpose of this posting was for information purposes only. It is not intended to resurrect the original postings about Robinson certification and all of the vitriol that was generated as a result of my original posting..
The next posting will be a transcript of a meeting held by a newspaper reporter and Mr. Jim Hall of the NTSB. That will most likely be the last posting until the NTSB report is completed.
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The Cat
[This message has been edited by Lu Zuckerman (edited 17 February 2001).]
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Lu
I can understand how that news might give you a nice warm feeling, and it will be interesting to read the findings. Perhaps you will be proved to be right.
But, PLEASE, PLEASE don't use the opportunity to restart your anti-Robinson campaign.
As you've probably noticed, Rotorheads has returned to its old friendly atmosphere, opposing views are exchanged without rancour or rudeness, people give and take in discussion.
It would be a great shame to return to the atmosphere of a few weeks ago.
I can understand how that news might give you a nice warm feeling, and it will be interesting to read the findings. Perhaps you will be proved to be right.
But, PLEASE, PLEASE don't use the opportunity to restart your anti-Robinson campaign.
As you've probably noticed, Rotorheads has returned to its old friendly atmosphere, opposing views are exchanged without rancour or rudeness, people give and take in discussion.
It would be a great shame to return to the atmosphere of a few weeks ago.
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To: Helo Teacher
I would suggest you contact the NTSB. They become involved in at least monitoring helicopter crashes involving helicopters built in the USA or built by a USA registered company (Bell Mirabel). Of course their database would not include Eurocopter helicopters unless they were built in the USA.
Here is your point of contact:
Latricia Carter RE-50
NTSB
490 L’Enfant Plaza, S.W.
Washington<DC 20594-2000
(202) 314 6000
Latricia Carter may not be involved in this position anymore but the function is still there. The name of the Department is Aviation Accident Data Specialist Analysis and Data Division. Ask her if it is possible to get a print out of helicopter accidents that happened in Canada. The reason I think they can help you is because several years ago I asked for a printout of all Robinson accidents and the list included crashes in the US as well as in Europe, Canada and south and Central America and the pacific regions. To be more specific, give her a listing of all of the helicopter types employed in Canada.
Or, you can log onto the NTSB website and check all of the accidents since this listing started many years ago. It lists all aviation accidents so it will take a lot of digging
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The Cat
I would suggest you contact the NTSB. They become involved in at least monitoring helicopter crashes involving helicopters built in the USA or built by a USA registered company (Bell Mirabel). Of course their database would not include Eurocopter helicopters unless they were built in the USA.
Here is your point of contact:
Latricia Carter RE-50
NTSB
490 L’Enfant Plaza, S.W.
Washington<DC 20594-2000
(202) 314 6000
Latricia Carter may not be involved in this position anymore but the function is still there. The name of the Department is Aviation Accident Data Specialist Analysis and Data Division. Ask her if it is possible to get a print out of helicopter accidents that happened in Canada. The reason I think they can help you is because several years ago I asked for a printout of all Robinson accidents and the list included crashes in the US as well as in Europe, Canada and south and Central America and the pacific regions. To be more specific, give her a listing of all of the helicopter types employed in Canada.
Or, you can log onto the NTSB website and check all of the accidents since this listing started many years ago. It lists all aviation accidents so it will take a lot of digging
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The Cat
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The NTSB website has a query page http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/Query.asp which permits the user to search for specific information.
Be sure to set the dates of the field search to 01/01/82 to enable searching the entire database. Also set the results to respond to the maximum number of results per page (100), for ease of reference.
Occasionally listings are classified under different models and do not show up on a general search, so check all model designations appropriate to the model. There are a number of drop down menu's with further information.
The focus of the NTSB site is on accidents occuring to "N" registered aircraft, or aircraft involved in accidents in the US. There are a number of other accidents listed, however.
When reviewing any accident data from this source, it should be remembered that this is raw data with only one relevant statistic - the number of accidents. To make a meaningful interpretation of this information it needs to be factored against flight hours and fleet size, and reviewed in the standard statistical format utilized by the NTSB and FAA.
Otherwise the immediate conclusion would be that the Cessna 150, Bell 206 or Boeing 737 have extraordinarily high accident rates, which is simply not the case. The accident rate smust be compared against the appropriate denominator to ensure the credibility and relevance of the data.
Be sure to set the dates of the field search to 01/01/82 to enable searching the entire database. Also set the results to respond to the maximum number of results per page (100), for ease of reference.
Occasionally listings are classified under different models and do not show up on a general search, so check all model designations appropriate to the model. There are a number of drop down menu's with further information.
The focus of the NTSB site is on accidents occuring to "N" registered aircraft, or aircraft involved in accidents in the US. There are a number of other accidents listed, however.
When reviewing any accident data from this source, it should be remembered that this is raw data with only one relevant statistic - the number of accidents. To make a meaningful interpretation of this information it needs to be factored against flight hours and fleet size, and reviewed in the standard statistical format utilized by the NTSB and FAA.
Otherwise the immediate conclusion would be that the Cessna 150, Bell 206 or Boeing 737 have extraordinarily high accident rates, which is simply not the case. The accident rate smust be compared against the appropriate denominator to ensure the credibility and relevance of the data.
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Here is the reference to the interview with Jim Hall of the NTSB. I was under the impression that it would provide greater detail. For those of you that are not aware, Jim hall has resigned from the NTSB.
December 12, 2000
Watsonville helicopter crash sparks probe
By MARINA MALIKOFF
Sentinel staff writer
Federal safety officials are investigating why an increasing number of people are dying in Robinson helicopter crashes.
The helicopter was the subject of a Sentinel investigation earlier this year after an R22 broke up in mid-air over Watsonville Aug. 18, killing Aptos pilot Kent Reinhard, 57, and his student, Gary Sefton, 46, of Hollister. The two died when the main rotor blade ripped through the cockpit, plunging the aircraft into a plowed field, where it caught fire.
Though federal officials at the time denied there had been recent similar crashes, a Sentinel search of the National Transportation Safety Board accident database uncovered three other deaths in R22 accidents linked to main rotor troubles.
"I guess if my brother’s death and the death of his student can contribute something to find what is wrong so that it can be corrected, it will be wonderful," said Reinhard’s sister, Jean Grace, a two-time mayor of Carmel.
After the accident, an NTSB spokeswoman said there had not been any similar crashes since 1995.
But in an interview Monday, board Chairman Jim Hall said the agency has documented a spike in the number of R22 helicopter fatalities, significant enough to resuscitate an investigation begun in 1994.
"Lately we have seen an increase in the Robinson accident rates," Hall said from his Washington, D.C., office. "We are looking for trends that might indicate a safety issue."
Board spokeswoman Lauren Peduzzi declined to elaborate, saying more information would be available within a month.
The probe comes as the agile, two-seater R22s are being produced and flown in record numbers worldwide, which could be a factor in the accident-rate increase.
Frank Robinson, founder of the family operated helicopter company, said Monday he was aware of the escalating accident rate, but maintains the Torrance-based company offers an extensive safety course and that most crashes are caused by pilot error.
"We are reissuing several safety notices to again get (pilot and student) attention," Robinson said. "There is nothing attributable to a malfunction of the helicopters."
In 1994, the NTSB launched what would become a two-year study of the lightweight chopper. The results, released in 1996, documented a pattern of fatal accidents linked to the helicopter’s main rotor blades.
During the probe, Hall became so alarmed by the number of accidents — where main rotor blades slashed through cockpits — that he recommended the Federal Aviation Administration ground the R22 and its cousin, the heftier four-seater R44, fearing a design flaw.
They were not grounded, but the FAA issued a series of safety alerts aimed at boosting pilot training and education.
Although that appears to have temporarily lowered the accident rate, Hall said, his investigators will again consider the design of the aircraft’s unique rotor system.
"We would be foolish to not review that as part of our new review of these current accidents," Hall said.
In 1996, an estimated 1,200 Robinson helicopters were in the air, Hall said. Today, more than 4,000 R22s and R44s have been sold. The affordable stunt helicopters are popular with new pilots and purchased worldwide by flight schools.
Contact Marina Malikoff at [email protected].
The Sentinel Marketing Advisor Forum
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The Cat
December 12, 2000
Watsonville helicopter crash sparks probe
By MARINA MALIKOFF
Sentinel staff writer
Federal safety officials are investigating why an increasing number of people are dying in Robinson helicopter crashes.
The helicopter was the subject of a Sentinel investigation earlier this year after an R22 broke up in mid-air over Watsonville Aug. 18, killing Aptos pilot Kent Reinhard, 57, and his student, Gary Sefton, 46, of Hollister. The two died when the main rotor blade ripped through the cockpit, plunging the aircraft into a plowed field, where it caught fire.
Though federal officials at the time denied there had been recent similar crashes, a Sentinel search of the National Transportation Safety Board accident database uncovered three other deaths in R22 accidents linked to main rotor troubles.
"I guess if my brother’s death and the death of his student can contribute something to find what is wrong so that it can be corrected, it will be wonderful," said Reinhard’s sister, Jean Grace, a two-time mayor of Carmel.
After the accident, an NTSB spokeswoman said there had not been any similar crashes since 1995.
But in an interview Monday, board Chairman Jim Hall said the agency has documented a spike in the number of R22 helicopter fatalities, significant enough to resuscitate an investigation begun in 1994.
"Lately we have seen an increase in the Robinson accident rates," Hall said from his Washington, D.C., office. "We are looking for trends that might indicate a safety issue."
Board spokeswoman Lauren Peduzzi declined to elaborate, saying more information would be available within a month.
The probe comes as the agile, two-seater R22s are being produced and flown in record numbers worldwide, which could be a factor in the accident-rate increase.
Frank Robinson, founder of the family operated helicopter company, said Monday he was aware of the escalating accident rate, but maintains the Torrance-based company offers an extensive safety course and that most crashes are caused by pilot error.
"We are reissuing several safety notices to again get (pilot and student) attention," Robinson said. "There is nothing attributable to a malfunction of the helicopters."
In 1994, the NTSB launched what would become a two-year study of the lightweight chopper. The results, released in 1996, documented a pattern of fatal accidents linked to the helicopter’s main rotor blades.
During the probe, Hall became so alarmed by the number of accidents — where main rotor blades slashed through cockpits — that he recommended the Federal Aviation Administration ground the R22 and its cousin, the heftier four-seater R44, fearing a design flaw.
They were not grounded, but the FAA issued a series of safety alerts aimed at boosting pilot training and education.
Although that appears to have temporarily lowered the accident rate, Hall said, his investigators will again consider the design of the aircraft’s unique rotor system.
"We would be foolish to not review that as part of our new review of these current accidents," Hall said.
In 1996, an estimated 1,200 Robinson helicopters were in the air, Hall said. Today, more than 4,000 R22s and R44s have been sold. The affordable stunt helicopters are popular with new pilots and purchased worldwide by flight schools.
Contact Marina Malikoff at [email protected].
The Sentinel Marketing Advisor Forum
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The Cat
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Thanks for the info LZ.
I will follow the investigation with interest.
But this <B>(Stunt)</B> really bothers me.
'The affordable stunt helicopters are popular with new pilots and purchased worldwide by flight schools.'
Is this just a journalisitc slip? Hope so. Good though the R22 is, 'Stunt' heli it is not(whatever a stunt heli is anyway).
I will follow the investigation with interest.
But this <B>(Stunt)</B> really bothers me.
'The affordable stunt helicopters are popular with new pilots and purchased worldwide by flight schools.'
Is this just a journalisitc slip? Hope so. Good though the R22 is, 'Stunt' heli it is not(whatever a stunt heli is anyway).
Guest
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I have to concur with SPS. A stunt helicopter? I know you can play around in them and there is a french guy who will demo abrupt pushovers with negative G, (he must be mad or maybe dead now) but "stunt" isn't the right word to use when describing the R22 or R44.
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To: SPS and Helimutt
I was going to remove the word “stunt” but decided against it, as it would alter the news article. In using the word stunt the author was alluding to a specific R 22 accident that occurred in Watsonville, California last year. This helicopter along with another R 22 and an R 44 were used in a demonstration team that on occasion worked with a Stearman bi-plane. They did in fact perform stunts. The name of the team is Show Copters. The pilot involved in the accident was a member of the Show Copters performing group.
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The Cat
[This message has been edited by Lu Zuckerman (edited 20 February 2001).]
I was going to remove the word “stunt” but decided against it, as it would alter the news article. In using the word stunt the author was alluding to a specific R 22 accident that occurred in Watsonville, California last year. This helicopter along with another R 22 and an R 44 were used in a demonstration team that on occasion worked with a Stearman bi-plane. They did in fact perform stunts. The name of the team is Show Copters. The pilot involved in the accident was a member of the Show Copters performing group.
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The Cat
[This message has been edited by Lu Zuckerman (edited 20 February 2001).]
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It's OK LZ, I'm sure all are clear as a bell
on the fact that you are merely quoting. My
objection to the word was not sent in your direction and you were correct to leave it in, although I understand the thoughts that would make you want to remove it.
I guess the 'word play' on the description (Stunt) will not be challenged as the aircraft was performing 'Stunts' but think it could have been better worded by the writer.
However, it does depict the way the press may stray from accuracy and even fact. It happens often and it is part of what we must endure.
Moving on...
Now call me a cynic if you like but the timing of this renewed investigation bothers me...Only a very short time after the new administration takes office. Of course, it may be that some things are 'held up' in the system when a change is due (and in this case MUST have been as Clinton could not be in office again) but....Hmmmmmmm, I don't know.....
My point is this - If the investigation is politically motivated (and it was rumoured to be so last time, as a high-ranking official's relative had been sadly killed in a Robinson accident) then all is not as it should be.
Mark my words though - If there IS something wrong with the design of the Robinson head it should be investigated and found. the results should give clues as to how the problem may be solved. Working on the assumption that 20 people may fly the average R22, (3500 or so in service right now) that makes 70,000 at risk (including yours truly) and every one of those people (and the ones that may be below the Heli at the time) need to have it looked into.
So, if this is money (litigation) oriented by someone misappropriating power vested in them then I have no time for it.
If it isn't, and is a genuinely made effort to get to the bottom of a problem that may or may not exist then I applaud it.
At least we'll all know one way or the other.
Knowledge and information can beat any enemy
or stop avoidable death and injury.
Just some thoughts boys....
on the fact that you are merely quoting. My
objection to the word was not sent in your direction and you were correct to leave it in, although I understand the thoughts that would make you want to remove it.
I guess the 'word play' on the description (Stunt) will not be challenged as the aircraft was performing 'Stunts' but think it could have been better worded by the writer.
However, it does depict the way the press may stray from accuracy and even fact. It happens often and it is part of what we must endure.
Moving on...
Now call me a cynic if you like but the timing of this renewed investigation bothers me...Only a very short time after the new administration takes office. Of course, it may be that some things are 'held up' in the system when a change is due (and in this case MUST have been as Clinton could not be in office again) but....Hmmmmmmm, I don't know.....
My point is this - If the investigation is politically motivated (and it was rumoured to be so last time, as a high-ranking official's relative had been sadly killed in a Robinson accident) then all is not as it should be.
Mark my words though - If there IS something wrong with the design of the Robinson head it should be investigated and found. the results should give clues as to how the problem may be solved. Working on the assumption that 20 people may fly the average R22, (3500 or so in service right now) that makes 70,000 at risk (including yours truly) and every one of those people (and the ones that may be below the Heli at the time) need to have it looked into.
So, if this is money (litigation) oriented by someone misappropriating power vested in them then I have no time for it.
If it isn't, and is a genuinely made effort to get to the bottom of a problem that may or may not exist then I applaud it.
At least we'll all know one way or the other.
Knowledge and information can beat any enemy
or stop avoidable death and injury.
Just some thoughts boys....
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Perhaps numbers have been on this site before, however as SPS is getting into stats has anyone got any useful info, along the lines of fatal accidents per hour flown?
I'm thinking of R22 in comparison with other SE training aircraft, rotary AND fixed.
Preferably differentiating accidents where limitations were observed from those where they were not.
My expectation is that the R22 will look pretty reasonable.
Chips
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More volts, Igor
I'm thinking of R22 in comparison with other SE training aircraft, rotary AND fixed.
Preferably differentiating accidents where limitations were observed from those where they were not.
My expectation is that the R22 will look pretty reasonable.
Chips
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More volts, Igor
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To: Chips
I found it difficult to input this material in graphical form, as the program on PPRuNe won’t allow it. Contrary to what you said about the R22 fairing well as compared to other helicopters,it is not true.
The NTSB in their report compared the Robinson to 9 0ther helicopter types including the following: Bell 206,Hughes 369, Hiller UH 12, Enstrom F28, MBB BO 105, Bell 212, Hughes 269, Bell 47 and the Bell 204. They looked at all fatal accidents involving loss of control and non-loss of control and then they totaled the LOC and non-LOC and then they showed the accumulated flight hours for each model in the survey. They then showed the rate of LOC and non-LOC accidents per 100,00 flight hours.
Without going into the total figures here is a point of comparison. The Bell 206 accumulated 13,369,702 flight hours and they had 0.015 LOC accidents per 100,000 hours and 0.890 non-LOC accidents per 100,000 flight hours for a total of 0.905 per 100,000 flight hours. The Robinson had accumulated 1,524,483 flight hours and had 1.509 LOC accidents per 100,000 flight hours and 2.558 non LOC accidents per 100,000 flight hours for a total of 4.067 accidents per 100,000 flight hours. In reading the entire chart it can be seen that the Robinson had a higher number of LOC accidents and a higher number of non-LOC accidents per 100,000 flight hours than any other helicopter on the list.
At the time the chart was made they showed 23 LOC accidents for the Robinson and at the time the NTSB completed their report there were 31 LOC accidents. Since the report was issued in April of 1996 there were four more LOC accidents and they all occurred last year. It was these last four accidents that are causing the NTSB to reopen their investigation.
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The Cat
[This message has been edited by Lu Zuckerman (edited 23 February 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Lu Zuckerman (edited 23 February 2001).]
I found it difficult to input this material in graphical form, as the program on PPRuNe won’t allow it. Contrary to what you said about the R22 fairing well as compared to other helicopters,it is not true.
The NTSB in their report compared the Robinson to 9 0ther helicopter types including the following: Bell 206,Hughes 369, Hiller UH 12, Enstrom F28, MBB BO 105, Bell 212, Hughes 269, Bell 47 and the Bell 204. They looked at all fatal accidents involving loss of control and non-loss of control and then they totaled the LOC and non-LOC and then they showed the accumulated flight hours for each model in the survey. They then showed the rate of LOC and non-LOC accidents per 100,00 flight hours.
Without going into the total figures here is a point of comparison. The Bell 206 accumulated 13,369,702 flight hours and they had 0.015 LOC accidents per 100,000 hours and 0.890 non-LOC accidents per 100,000 flight hours for a total of 0.905 per 100,000 flight hours. The Robinson had accumulated 1,524,483 flight hours and had 1.509 LOC accidents per 100,000 flight hours and 2.558 non LOC accidents per 100,000 flight hours for a total of 4.067 accidents per 100,000 flight hours. In reading the entire chart it can be seen that the Robinson had a higher number of LOC accidents and a higher number of non-LOC accidents per 100,000 flight hours than any other helicopter on the list.
At the time the chart was made they showed 23 LOC accidents for the Robinson and at the time the NTSB completed their report there were 31 LOC accidents. Since the report was issued in April of 1996 there were four more LOC accidents and they all occurred last year. It was these last four accidents that are causing the NTSB to reopen their investigation.
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The Cat
[This message has been edited by Lu Zuckerman (edited 23 February 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Lu Zuckerman (edited 23 February 2001).]
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Interesting numbers Lu. Although I'm having trouble with translating the stats into reality.
The 206 is particular is an unreasonable comparison IMO.
First of all I would not class the 206 as a basic training helicopter, I can't imagine there is much flying done in those by novice / inexperienced pilots.
Secondly the B206 is known as the safest single engine aircraft (fixed and rotary). I think it's a bit much expecting a cheap piston basic trainer to match that.
More meaningful numbers would be comparative with other 2 seat trainers, both rotary and fixed wing. Even better if pilot failure and aircraft failure can be separated.
Anyone??
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More volts, Igor
The 206 is particular is an unreasonable comparison IMO.
First of all I would not class the 206 as a basic training helicopter, I can't imagine there is much flying done in those by novice / inexperienced pilots.
Secondly the B206 is known as the safest single engine aircraft (fixed and rotary). I think it's a bit much expecting a cheap piston basic trainer to match that.
More meaningful numbers would be comparative with other 2 seat trainers, both rotary and fixed wing. Even better if pilot failure and aircraft failure can be separated.
Anyone??
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More volts, Igor
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It's probably no help at all but here in NZ
recent figures show that Hughes/Schweizer
300 accidents and occurrences outnumber similar for the R22 by around 3 - 1 (greater than that of late).
I personally think this means very little statisitically and does NOT show that there is any fault with a particular type. It just shows which aircraft is most commonly used for training in NZ and sadly the figures follow, as they follow other types the world over.
recent figures show that Hughes/Schweizer
300 accidents and occurrences outnumber similar for the R22 by around 3 - 1 (greater than that of late).
I personally think this means very little statisitically and does NOT show that there is any fault with a particular type. It just shows which aircraft is most commonly used for training in NZ and sadly the figures follow, as they follow other types the world over.
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Maybe I have my own data after all... here follows a short extract from "Aviation Consumer". It's way less that 10% of the original article, so I believe this posting is legal copyright-wise.
Extract starts...
Here's what Yankee buffs don't like to talk about: accidents. The AA-1 series has historically had a very bad safety record. Although the AA-1's accident rate has improved significantly over the years (as has all of general aviation's), the latest news is still bad: an exhaustive Aviation Consumer study of all AA-1 accidents from 1976 through 1984 reveals a total accident rate of 14.6 per 100,000 aircraft hours, and a fatal rate of 3.2. Although this is better than it used to be, it's worse than average for two-seat aircraft. The Cessna 150/152, for example, had a total accident rate of 10.0 and a fatal rate of 1.1 - barely a third of the AA-1's. Yankee accidents tended to be more serious as well; 22 percent of AA-1 crashes were fatal, compared to only 11 percent for the 150/152. AA-1 boosters insist that you can't blame the plane if some idiot flies it into a mountain in a thunderstorm.
... extract ends.
I think this data is more meaningful, two training aircraft usually in tyro hands. In my mind the Yankee data puts the Robbie record in quite a good light. Compare the R22 with the super-pedestrian and very conservatively designed Cessna and it still looks alright.
And for more perspective... I don't think there is much wrong with the Yankee in fact. If you fly it properly it is safe and great fun. I owned AA1B N9469L nearly 2 decades ago, it was agile, good vision, it never scared us once and caused no hassles.
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More volts, Igor
Extract starts...
Here's what Yankee buffs don't like to talk about: accidents. The AA-1 series has historically had a very bad safety record. Although the AA-1's accident rate has improved significantly over the years (as has all of general aviation's), the latest news is still bad: an exhaustive Aviation Consumer study of all AA-1 accidents from 1976 through 1984 reveals a total accident rate of 14.6 per 100,000 aircraft hours, and a fatal rate of 3.2. Although this is better than it used to be, it's worse than average for two-seat aircraft. The Cessna 150/152, for example, had a total accident rate of 10.0 and a fatal rate of 1.1 - barely a third of the AA-1's. Yankee accidents tended to be more serious as well; 22 percent of AA-1 crashes were fatal, compared to only 11 percent for the 150/152. AA-1 boosters insist that you can't blame the plane if some idiot flies it into a mountain in a thunderstorm.
... extract ends.
I think this data is more meaningful, two training aircraft usually in tyro hands. In my mind the Yankee data puts the Robbie record in quite a good light. Compare the R22 with the super-pedestrian and very conservatively designed Cessna and it still looks alright.
And for more perspective... I don't think there is much wrong with the Yankee in fact. If you fly it properly it is safe and great fun. I owned AA1B N9469L nearly 2 decades ago, it was agile, good vision, it never scared us once and caused no hassles.
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More volts, Igor
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To: Chips
I am working with Helidrvr to get the chart on the Internet and it shows the complete comparison between the ten different types of helicopters. The major point that was obviously missed is that the Robinson helicopters have suffered 35 rotor loss or rotor incursion accidents and four of them occurred last year. The NTSB is investigating to see if the design of the rotor head had any influence in those accidents. The rotorhead design defect was the major thrust of my report on the certification of the Robinson helicopters. If in fact it is determined that the design of the rotorhead was the cause of the accidents then the NTSB will force the FAA to de-certify the helicopters until a new design can be incorporated.
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The Cat
I am working with Helidrvr to get the chart on the Internet and it shows the complete comparison between the ten different types of helicopters. The major point that was obviously missed is that the Robinson helicopters have suffered 35 rotor loss or rotor incursion accidents and four of them occurred last year. The NTSB is investigating to see if the design of the rotor head had any influence in those accidents. The rotorhead design defect was the major thrust of my report on the certification of the Robinson helicopters. If in fact it is determined that the design of the rotorhead was the cause of the accidents then the NTSB will force the FAA to de-certify the helicopters until a new design can be incorporated.
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The Cat
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OK Lu and Helidrvr moderator looking forward to the charts, with the irrelevant types filtered out preferably.
I still maintain that the R22 is an excellent and very safe machine, conditional (as with EVERY aircraft) on flying within the book. And I insist the comparison with equivalent FW types substantiates the excellence of this product.
The critical thing to understand is whether the rotor system is sub-standard or whether impossible things are being asked for by the odd driver.
BTW conflict of interest declaration...
No financial involvement with Robinson Helicopter.
Commercially involved with BHTI.
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More volts, Igor
I still maintain that the R22 is an excellent and very safe machine, conditional (as with EVERY aircraft) on flying within the book. And I insist the comparison with equivalent FW types substantiates the excellence of this product.
The critical thing to understand is whether the rotor system is sub-standard or whether impossible things are being asked for by the odd driver.
BTW conflict of interest declaration...
No financial involvement with Robinson Helicopter.
Commercially involved with BHTI.
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More volts, Igor
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Here is the statistics table as forwarded to me by Lu. Just for the record, I had no part in producing this information other than to convert the table sent to me by Lu in *.doc format to an image file for uploading.
Cheers
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Cheers
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You are welcome to visit HELIDRVR here