Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Rotorheads
Reload this Page >

BO 105 - Good, Bad or just Ugly?

Rotorheads A haven for helicopter professionals to discuss the things that affect them

BO 105 - Good, Bad or just Ugly?

Old 31st Oct 2001, 03:10
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New Zealand (ex-pat)
Posts: 10
Question BO 105 - Good, Bad or just Ugly?

BO 105's are as rare as rocking horse poo here in New Zealand, so can somebody tell me of any experiences of them, such as what's the direct operating costs really like (been quoted USD250 per hour), do they vibrate a lot through translation - are they as bad at this as BK117's or are they worse?? (ever tried to read the instruments on a BK when you drop out of translational lift!). Also what fails/drops off/etc..

I understand they are popular ships with the UK police force, I even saw one on TV the other day in an English series "Dangerfield" featured a very long police chase involving a Land Rover and the BO105.

Help me out with any info, there is a geniune reason. Thanks
The angry palm tree is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2001, 16:43
  #2 (permalink)  
widgeon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

When the canadian coastguard moved from 206's to 105 it is said that they experienced a decrease in doc's . I have no documentary evidence to support this but the 105 has very few limited life components , the reserve for parts on the L4 ( 111.7 /hr) is much more than the maint reserve for the extra engine ( 54.88 / hr) . The new blade as used on the super 5 and 105 LS super lifter reduces both vibration and noise.
 
Old 31st Oct 2001, 19:57
  #3 (permalink)  
"Just a pilot"
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Jefferson GA USA
Age: 70
Posts: 592
Post

First, I'm not a 'Kow driver. But you asked for "experiences" and I've ridden in'em. An hour and a half in the back seat is as exhausting as a 8 hour day flying a 355, 350 or a 206.
Second, 105 pliots seem to either love or hate flying them, no in-betweens.
Third, I have friend who had an in flight fire and tail boom seperation. He still flys 'Kows.
Devil 49 is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2001, 01:23
  #4 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New Zealand (ex-pat)
Posts: 10
Post

So I guess from the above that vibration is a problem? The ship I have an interest in is a BO105CB4, I take it this won't have the LS blades fitted, but can they be fitted if that reduces noise?

BO105's seem to be good buys for a twin engine jobby, and now two people have suggested the DOC could be reasonable.
The angry palm tree is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2001, 06:08
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Chilly Jocko Land
Posts: 19
Post

A bog standard -4 without pendulum absorbers fitted will rattle your fillings out PDQ, especially going through translation on landing. Even if expertly tracked and balanced this machine is tiring to fly in for any length of time.
LS blades plus pen dabs decrease vibration a lot, also add 5-10 kts at cruise but are increadibly expensive and are prone to leading edge debonding, (at least the early ones were).
Over all it's built like a brick ****house, very manoeuverable and if well maintained reasonably reliable. Saying that though it's showing it's age now....and, yes it is ugly but so are some of my other best friends!
4Rvibes is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2001, 06:34
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New Zealand (ex-pat)
Posts: 10
Post

Probably not such a good buy then after all. But it's still attractive in that it costs the same as a 350D or B, and a twin would be advantageous. A 355 is just too far out of budget.

Are ex-millitary spares available/an option for a commercial use BO105, given how many the German army have? I'm thinking about the LS blades and pends.
The angry palm tree is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2001, 14:05
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: ...in view of the 'Southern Cross' ...
Posts: 1,378
Talking

First off let me declare that I am a 105 lover, I've got near 2000 hrs in the little suckers and am now very involved with the BK117..... they fly very much like the Hu500 series helo and the vibration is very much dependant on how you fly them....having said that the pendular weights are a must for really smooth flight as is a good track.... problems with vibration usually have a lot to do with M/R pitch link slop!...dont drag the a/c in on the approach fly a good constant angle varying airspeed approach...and you should have no problems at all...they are are very trustworthy a/c which you can take ANYWHERE with absolute confidence...try to talk to anybody from the "Peter Button" trust in WGTN. he (Peter) had one there when he unfortunately met his end(in a B206)alternatively try to track down "Bob Davidson" who I think lives in Tauranga...he has 4000+ hrs on them and has a lot of info and advice....Cheers and good luck!
spinwing is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2001, 23:22
  #8 (permalink)  
"Just a pilot"
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Jefferson GA USA
Age: 70
Posts: 592
Post

Angry Palm Tree- No, my comments regarding fatigue weren't vibration induced. The only noticable vibes were on my first ride 17 years ago. Decel thru translational then was exciting.
Riding in the 105 is tiring because it IS built like a brick out house. The front pax, who has the "good" seat, is on the floor in the bubble. Think early 60's Sprite with a glass roof and no suspension.
The poor souls in back are nose down, pushing themselves back into the seats at cruise. I remember looking at the horizon thru the greenhouse over the pilots head the whole flight.
Also, the 105 doesn't ride "loose" and pendulous like a Long Ranger. But it never seemed to be in trim for more than a second or two, then it was wandering off in one axis or the other, requiring pilot intervention.
Devil 49 is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2001, 23:57
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: vocation
Age: 53
Posts: 202
Thumbs up

You get used to it, I must say!

Solid machine, whatever its faults.
HOGE is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2001, 02:12
  #10 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New Zealand (ex-pat)
Posts: 10
Post

It does seem to me that the BO105 might be that most elusive of helicopters - a cheap twin.

What do you think??
The angry palm tree is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2001, 02:15
  #11 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New Zealand (ex-pat)
Posts: 10
Post

Just got this reply from the seller:-

"The blades are 105-15150, the absorbers are pendulum 105-81022".

So I guess it has pendulum absorbers at least, anybody any idea if these are 'S' or 'LS' blades?
The angry palm tree is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2001, 08:40
  #12 (permalink)  
widgeon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Post

105-15150 + 105-81022 = 105-15141 which are the blades on the 2.5 t CBS 4 and LS A3 . CBS Super 5 and LS super lifter blades are 105-15170.have a very noticeable tapering towards the tip.

BTW anyone wants any low time 105-15141 blades drop me a mail.
 
Old 4th Nov 2001, 21:12
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 28
Cool

Angry,
I have been flying the 105 type for eight years now with the police in the UK, and have several thousand hours on the clock with them. Can only agree with Spinwing - they WILL get you anywhere at all, and are built like the outside loo!! BUT -
Make sure you check on the following points - depending on the role you have in mind the Stretched version (105 CBS 4) has more room, greater WAT-2500kg and is more comfortable for pax. Make sure the Tie-Bar mod has been done (most should be). The Anti-tank tail rotor is the most efficient and has assymetric blades. You would be advised to have Fuzz Burners on the engine mag plugs (will save landing out) Facet oil filters will DOUBLE the oil life and save on mag plug warnings. Make sure that the MGB has had a recent o/h (can be expensive) and the Hyd pack should be o/h too. Pend Abbs are essential for a good track and bal (we flew all the time with these and found that the CBS-5 blades were too expensive) It will drink 180 L per hour max and if you don't fly with the lever up under your armpit it will give better consumption than that. The DOC the police used was in the region of 600 to 1000 sterling per hour. If you need any other titbits of info mail me

FLIR.
FLIR is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2001, 00:14
  #14 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: New Zealand (ex-pat)
Posts: 10
Post

Thanks Widgeon!

FLIR, thanks too! I take it the figure of 600 to 1000 sterling is the 'cost to ratepayer', because that's a little on the high side for a DOC. For that sort of money I can hire a BK117 for about an hour and a half!

I do miss England, but not the prices...
The angry palm tree is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2001, 01:15
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 28
Cool

Angry,
Yes, you are correct the costs quoted are to the ratepayer so-to-speak. Have had some good and bad times in the 105 - but she never let me down, when a donk ate something mettalic and ******ed the compressor!! Mr Alison/RR with the C20B does not have the best of histories, but when used in a police role they are hardly up to temp when needed to work - they can leak a bit too, but the oil loss needs to be around one liter per hour before the limit is reached - messy to clean up if you leave it too long.

regards FLIR.
FLIR is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2002, 03:32
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Auckland,New Zealand
Posts: 8
Question BO-105 Questions

Hi all,
I'm on the hunt for information on the BO-105.Could any pilots/Techs give me a good run down on what kind of ship it is re DOC's,downtime,reliability,what its like to fly etc.I know its built like a brick S**THOUSE but is it's low purchase price at the moment(Twin wise)for a real reason,or becuase they are getting a bit long in the tooth, or because it's got a face only a mother could love.Thanks in advance for the help,

Skiv
Kiwi Skiv is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2002, 16:59
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 452
Kiwi Skiv

On the NewsGroup 'rec.aviation.rotorcraft', the thread 'Angles during different modes of flight' was started three days ago. A number of knowledgeable people commented on this subject and used the Bo-105 as an example of rigid rotors. Their comments on the Bo-105, pros and cons, might be of interest to you.
Dave Jackson is offline  
Old 16th Apr 2002, 20:28
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 502
Thumbs up

Helidrvr is right. Since several years, i am on the way with such ships. It`s my favourite under a lot of helos. Why? Best of all, compact, a direct control and a really good view for the pilot. To fly like a sportscar. Proven a/c, no surprises. The question is, for what kind of operations, do you want to use it. Isnt the long liner, no single pilot ifr, forget hot n high. Good small ambulance ship, good for observations (2-3 crew,FLIR+aux. fuel tanks) and night trips (incl. NVG). I also recommend the CB"s" stretched variant. The CBS-5 (Super Five) are recommended for elevated helipad (CAT A) or offshore ops. (improved OEI limits due to other blades & improved m/r gearbox). The BO 105 "LS" with Allison 250 C28 for hot`n high (only 10-20 ships are built).
A lot of additionally stuff is available for really all kind of ops. Underpowered- yes, with MTOW (2,5 tons). Good to fly below 2,3 tons. Empty weight aprox. 1300-1400 kg. In europe a lot of ships + spare parts for sale. Very cheap to get (below some singles). Maintenance isn`t so cheap. The frame needs some special tools + hyd. ground unit. The engines (CB variant) also used on AS355F, A 109, BH 206, MD 500...
tecpilot is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2002, 01:59
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Auckland,New Zealand
Posts: 8
Thanks for the info so far guys,The airframe will be used for survey work with a few bits of equipment strung from it.3 crew plus the occasonal strap hanger.Should not be required to operate at MAUW very often if at all.
Kiwi Skiv is offline  
Old 17th Apr 2002, 10:40
  #20 (permalink)  

Just Dropped In
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: um....er.....
Posts: 130
Kiwi Skiv I flew BO105's for two years on & off doing Police Flying, Load Lifting & general flying about type stuff!

I never had any power problems with the machine even at MAUW in the Welsh Valleys. The tail rotor authority is second to none! The machine will just swallow huge amounts of gear aswell! Handling is excellent & you can throw one about no probs!

The down side is the accomodation! Rear seats are very cramped...front seats better(ish). I'm six foot four & hit my head alot!!

If you want a cheap to buy machine that'll carry lot's of gear it's a good bet! However, I understand that they are relatively expensive to run & if you're not required to have twin engines the 'B' Squirrels will do as good a job for less running costs!

I loved flying it! Lovely to fly a machine that'll hover in any direction in most winds! (But then I've got a thing about tail rotors! )
Roofus is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.