Erie EMS missing
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Location: the hills of halton
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"Just a pilot"
Latest, linked from the PHPA website- autorotate.com-
http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/...gion-apnewyork
The aircraft wreckage has been located, and pilot appears to have been killed on crash impact.
http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/...gion-apnewyork
The aircraft wreckage has been located, and pilot appears to have been killed on crash impact.
Might be time to bring up the EMS safety record in the USA again...last two fatal accidents have been in SPIFR machines at night in bad weather...one enroute to a home base at an airport...now this one enroute to an airport from a hospital.
The other worrisome issue might be the fact they were both Agusta machines and no radio calls were made by the pilots reporting a problem of any kind to ATC.
Condolences to the family of all the four crewmembers lost in the two crashes....and hopefully, causes of the crashes can be determined in a timely manner and determine if any simularities exist that might work towards preventing a third event.
The other worrisome issue might be the fact they were both Agusta machines and no radio calls were made by the pilots reporting a problem of any kind to ATC.
Condolences to the family of all the four crewmembers lost in the two crashes....and hopefully, causes of the crashes can be determined in a timely manner and determine if any simularities exist that might work towards preventing a third event.
I knew the guy flying the one that crashed in Illinois....and if that one was pilot error....then anyone of us can find ourselves in a smoking hole. Nothing was found wrong with the aircraft and the weather being bad.....those walking around afterwards handed him the bucket to carry....well set it upon his grave anyway.
Last edited by SASless; 10th Oct 2005 at 15:19.
Augusta 109? Is this becoming a regular thing.
+++++++++++++++++++
Agusta!
The short answer is not as regular as your instincts might suggest.
I did a quick bit of research and asked about because they seem to be falling out of the sky in dozens.... so based on a number of opinions...
It seems that the first 50 A109E Powers have had a bad time of it. Of that first 50 no less than NINE have been written off ... and couple of them had earlier 'incidents' ... that is around 20% down and out.
Two [at least] were proven to be caused by badly fitted parts and two were involved in that bad run the Greek EMS service had.
The new crash is from a later batch.
So when you consider ALL of the Powers built there have it seems been TEN destroyed of around 267 - that is less worrying.
+++++++++++++++++++
Agusta!
The short answer is not as regular as your instincts might suggest.
I did a quick bit of research and asked about because they seem to be falling out of the sky in dozens.... so based on a number of opinions...
It seems that the first 50 A109E Powers have had a bad time of it. Of that first 50 no less than NINE have been written off ... and couple of them had earlier 'incidents' ... that is around 20% down and out.
Two [at least] were proven to be caused by badly fitted parts and two were involved in that bad run the Greek EMS service had.
The new crash is from a later batch.
So when you consider ALL of the Powers built there have it seems been TEN destroyed of around 267 - that is less worrying.
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Are you referring to 109E only ? .
There are 17 agusta accidents on NTSB , 5 of which are for 119 ( maybe another story here ?) 5 of the 109's were fatal. There are at least 2 well known ones in the UK .
There are 17 agusta accidents on NTSB , 5 of which are for 119 ( maybe another story here ?) 5 of the 109's were fatal. There are at least 2 well known ones in the UK .
No, not absolutely sure but cannot find any more 'dead'.
I recall loads more accidents but - if the figures do not lie - they were clearly not aircraft killers.
I know for instance that the EMS people in Dallas bounced two new ones but they were I suppose repairable. The recent crash in Seattle was an early model 109. If you start counting those you are looking at 600 or so production numbers [a guess] since the mid-1970s.
10 out of the 267 Power model built ......unless someone out there knows better.
I speak only of the 109E model.
I guess the build and loss data for early 109s will be sparse, there are on-line lists for recent stuff [109E/119] maintained by enthusiasts but they may not be accurate. And what is a fatal? A tail rotor strike on the groundcrew.... or the mountain rescue chap on a fixed line when the 119 had a FADEC failure and deposited him in a lake at 100mph... not a scratch on the airframe but the operator quickly changed to a 109 as it was a twin...
BIG can of worms and needing more than a few passing words to resolve.
Went away and tried something and found TWO more apparantly of that early batch of 50 ... both emergency services losses... 11 down of 50 now... one Spanish and one in China....
So yes it looks as if there is more in the can...
I recall loads more accidents but - if the figures do not lie - they were clearly not aircraft killers.
I know for instance that the EMS people in Dallas bounced two new ones but they were I suppose repairable. The recent crash in Seattle was an early model 109. If you start counting those you are looking at 600 or so production numbers [a guess] since the mid-1970s.
10 out of the 267 Power model built ......unless someone out there knows better.
I speak only of the 109E model.
I guess the build and loss data for early 109s will be sparse, there are on-line lists for recent stuff [109E/119] maintained by enthusiasts but they may not be accurate. And what is a fatal? A tail rotor strike on the groundcrew.... or the mountain rescue chap on a fixed line when the 119 had a FADEC failure and deposited him in a lake at 100mph... not a scratch on the airframe but the operator quickly changed to a 109 as it was a twin...
BIG can of worms and needing more than a few passing words to resolve.
Went away and tried something and found TWO more apparantly of that early batch of 50 ... both emergency services losses... 11 down of 50 now... one Spanish and one in China....
So yes it looks as if there is more in the can...
Last edited by PANews; 10th Oct 2005 at 23:08.
DATE
10/07/05 2345 EDT
PROGRAM
LifeStar of Erie, PA
VENDOR
CJ Systems Aviation Group
ADDRESS
EmergyCare, Inc
1701 Sassafras St.
Erie, PA 16502
WEATHER
Night, IFR
AIRCRAFT_TYPE
Agusta 109Power
TAIL#
N7YL
TEAM
Heinz Shulz, Pilot. Fatal injuries.
No patient.
DESCRIPTION
After completing the GPS approach into PA91 (Kane Community Hospital;
Kane, PA) on an IFR clearance, the flight nurse and paramedic
disembarked to prepare a patient for a flight to Pittsburgh. During
this time, the pilot was to fly 10 nautical miles the the northeast
to KBFD to refuel.
The pilot departed on an IFR clearance and was radar identified by
Cleveland Center at 2236 EDT and subsequently cleared for the ILS 32
approach in KBFD at 2341. This was the last radio contact with the
aircraft.
The refueler at the FBO overheard the above radio transmissions and
was awaiting the arrival of N7YL. When the aircraft failed to
arrive, he notified Cleveland Center and Kane Community Hospital, who
informed the waiting flight crew. At that time, the missing aircraft
procedure was activated.
Following an extensive search, involving local Bradford area and Erie
County agencies, along with other regional ground and air assets, the
aircraft was located at 1315, Sunday, October 9, in a heavily wooded
area, 4.65 nautical miles southeast of KBFD.
ADDITIONAL INFO
A memorial service is scheduled for Friday, October 14, 2005, at 1100,
at Mercyhurst College in Erie, PA. Memorial contributions may be made
to the Erie City Mission or the Mary D'Angelo Performing Arts Center.
SOURCE
Cyndy Carter, Program Director, LifeStar
10/07/05 2345 EDT
PROGRAM
LifeStar of Erie, PA
VENDOR
CJ Systems Aviation Group
ADDRESS
EmergyCare, Inc
1701 Sassafras St.
Erie, PA 16502
WEATHER
Night, IFR
AIRCRAFT_TYPE
Agusta 109Power
TAIL#
N7YL
TEAM
Heinz Shulz, Pilot. Fatal injuries.
No patient.
DESCRIPTION
After completing the GPS approach into PA91 (Kane Community Hospital;
Kane, PA) on an IFR clearance, the flight nurse and paramedic
disembarked to prepare a patient for a flight to Pittsburgh. During
this time, the pilot was to fly 10 nautical miles the the northeast
to KBFD to refuel.
The pilot departed on an IFR clearance and was radar identified by
Cleveland Center at 2236 EDT and subsequently cleared for the ILS 32
approach in KBFD at 2341. This was the last radio contact with the
aircraft.
The refueler at the FBO overheard the above radio transmissions and
was awaiting the arrival of N7YL. When the aircraft failed to
arrive, he notified Cleveland Center and Kane Community Hospital, who
informed the waiting flight crew. At that time, the missing aircraft
procedure was activated.
Following an extensive search, involving local Bradford area and Erie
County agencies, along with other regional ground and air assets, the
aircraft was located at 1315, Sunday, October 9, in a heavily wooded
area, 4.65 nautical miles southeast of KBFD.
ADDITIONAL INFO
A memorial service is scheduled for Friday, October 14, 2005, at 1100,
at Mercyhurst College in Erie, PA. Memorial contributions may be made
to the Erie City Mission or the Mary D'Angelo Performing Arts Center.
SOURCE
Cyndy Carter, Program Director, LifeStar
Complacency demolished....!!
On October 29 another Agusta A109E Power had a serious but not fatal incident where the damage appears severe.
Preliminary reports state that an Airlift Northwest medical-evacuation helicopter suffered damage in an incident on take-off from a hospital roof.
The crash occurred immediately after liftoff. The helicopter lost power and more or less fell off the building, landing between the hospital and an outbuilding. There was some damage to the building. The aircraft was one of two new $4.4M Agusta A109E helicopters purchased by Airlift Northwest in a fleet upgrade.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...yndication=rss
This same company suffered a fatal accident with a 109 on 29 September.
On October 29 another Agusta A109E Power had a serious but not fatal incident where the damage appears severe.
Preliminary reports state that an Airlift Northwest medical-evacuation helicopter suffered damage in an incident on take-off from a hospital roof.
The crash occurred immediately after liftoff. The helicopter lost power and more or less fell off the building, landing between the hospital and an outbuilding. There was some damage to the building. The aircraft was one of two new $4.4M Agusta A109E helicopters purchased by Airlift Northwest in a fleet upgrade.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...yndication=rss
This same company suffered a fatal accident with a 109 on 29 September.
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Now I am not a pilot.
But do you professionals consider that there is too greater workload and that twin pilot is the only way forward?
But do you professionals consider that there is too greater workload and that twin pilot is the only way forward?
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************************************************************ ********************
** Report created 11/9/2005 Record 1 **
************************************************************ ********************
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 30NM Make/Model: A109 Description: AGUSTA SPA A109E
Date: 11/08/2005 Time: 1504
Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Substantial
LOCATION
City: ROBBINSDALE State: MN Country: US
DESCRIPTION
N30NM, AN AGUSTA SPA A109E ROTORCRAFT, ON TAKE OFF FROM NORTH MEMORIAL
HOSPITAL HELIPAD AT 10 FEET AND CRASHED, ROBBINSDALE, MN
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 3 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 3 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: 07003KT 10SM CLR 6/2 A3002
OTHER DATA
Departed: ROBBINSDALE, MN Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: MINNEAPOLIS, MN Flt Plan: VFR Wx Briefing:
Last Radio Cont:
Last Clearance:
FAA FSDO: MINNEAPOLIS, MN (GL15) Entry date: 11/09/2005
** Report created 11/9/2005 Record 1 **
************************************************************ ********************
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 30NM Make/Model: A109 Description: AGUSTA SPA A109E
Date: 11/08/2005 Time: 1504
Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Substantial
LOCATION
City: ROBBINSDALE State: MN Country: US
DESCRIPTION
N30NM, AN AGUSTA SPA A109E ROTORCRAFT, ON TAKE OFF FROM NORTH MEMORIAL
HOSPITAL HELIPAD AT 10 FEET AND CRASHED, ROBBINSDALE, MN
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 3 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 3 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: 07003KT 10SM CLR 6/2 A3002
OTHER DATA
Departed: ROBBINSDALE, MN Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: MINNEAPOLIS, MN Flt Plan: VFR Wx Briefing:
Last Radio Cont:
Last Clearance:
FAA FSDO: MINNEAPOLIS, MN (GL15) Entry date: 11/09/2005
