EC145
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 506
Likes: 1
From: Europe
helmet fire is right. There are some aerodynamic causes limiting the airspeed and the performance. Greater airspeeds with removed doors could go up to problems controlling the bank of the a/c. Due to the greater drag and the influence of the changed airstreams to the main AND tailrotor, the performance isn't as good as with doors closed.
Cat A with opened / removed doors is also not certified on BK 117 and EC 135.
Integrity and chrashworthiness of the cabin is is abolutely given also with opened/removed doors. There is a carbon frame on EC 135/145 giving the structural integrity. The doors doesn't have structural influence.
Cat A with opened / removed doors is also not certified on BK 117 and EC 135.
Integrity and chrashworthiness of the cabin is is abolutely given also with opened/removed doors. There is a carbon frame on EC 135/145 giving the structural integrity. The doors doesn't have structural influence.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
From: UK
metric - for what it's worth, sounds like the same mod that's available to the 135, a new front door strut that (with a selector) restricts the door from opening fully, acting as a spoiler for the rear sliding door. In the case of the 135, your front door also gets re-inforced down the trailing edge but the overall package allows flight to 110kts, rather than the usual 60kt limit, with the sliding door open.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 1
From: the cockpit
re my last post:
Sorry tc about the time delay.
the FM for the BK117 does include the climb rate issue. under Supplement 11-3, Operation with Doors removed, para 5.2 rate of Climb
"Subtract corection value as indicated below from the rate of climb obtained from the applicable performance chart of basic flight Manual.
Gross weight (kg): ...............ROC Correction (Ft/min):
1700 - 2200 .....................450
2200 - 2850 ......................350
2850 - 3350 .........................250"
As the doors open ROC correction reduces with GW, it consistent with aerodynamic reasons (actual ROC reduces with GW, and drag is exponential, therefore correction reduces accordingly).
The BK117 also has a statement in the CAT A supplement that with doors open/removed, the aircraft is not certificated for CAT A. Cat A is only available in the B2 to 2900 kg, so removing around 350 ft/min due drag of the open doors will cause the aircraft to fail to meet the CAT A profile.
I think!
Sorry tc about the time delay.
the FM for the BK117 does include the climb rate issue. under Supplement 11-3, Operation with Doors removed, para 5.2 rate of Climb
"Subtract corection value as indicated below from the rate of climb obtained from the applicable performance chart of basic flight Manual.
Gross weight (kg): ...............ROC Correction (Ft/min):
1700 - 2200 .....................450
2200 - 2850 ......................350
2850 - 3350 .........................250"
As the doors open ROC correction reduces with GW, it consistent with aerodynamic reasons (actual ROC reduces with GW, and drag is exponential, therefore correction reduces accordingly).
The BK117 also has a statement in the CAT A supplement that with doors open/removed, the aircraft is not certificated for CAT A. Cat A is only available in the B2 to 2900 kg, so removing around 350 ft/min due drag of the open doors will cause the aircraft to fail to meet the CAT A profile.
I think!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
From: canada
ec145 and fadec, rumor or not ??
heard from a friend who heard from an ec145 maint. engineer that the ec145's will SOON be delivered with fadec.
with the knowledge base of posters out there, can someone please confirm or deny the rumor
with the knowledge base of posters out there, can someone please confirm or deny the rumor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 506
Likes: 1
From: Europe
According to Turbomeca the Arriel 1E2 engines couldn't be upgraded with a FADEC and Turbomeca isn't interested in major modifications on this "old" engines. And FADEC-ing is the part of the engine manufacturers not ECD.
It's right there are plans to upgrade the EC 145 on the next development level with a 5-bladed rotor, new MR Gearbox and FADEC equipped engines.
Just ask the maint. engineer to definite the therm "soon" ...
It's right there are plans to upgrade the EC 145 on the next development level with a 5-bladed rotor, new MR Gearbox and FADEC equipped engines.
Just ask the maint. engineer to definite the therm "soon" ...
Last edited by tecpilot; 17th May 2005 at 19:15.
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: UK
Eurocopter EC145 - the list price
Guess I'm a bit sad, but does anyone know what the EC145 list price is...the price that gets you a helicopter with nothing of any value at all - I think Eurocopter call that the Standard helicopter. And before someone offers me the UK police price, that is not the number I need!
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: UK
Is that with or without FADEC???
As always asking a vague question will get a vague answer or in this case probably a misleading one. Take whatever figure you are given by the EC PR boys here and add at least 10% for anything like a half decent spec.
Then the real question is how much less is an Agusta Grand!!!
As always asking a vague question will get a vague answer or in this case probably a misleading one. Take whatever figure you are given by the EC PR boys here and add at least 10% for anything like a half decent spec.
Then the real question is how much less is an Agusta Grand!!!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 573
Likes: 0
From: uk
As Eurobolkow emphsises, your question is without substance.
You will need to contact your local Eurocopter dealer and thrash it through with them adding all the bits and peices that you require including paint and interior and expect a big cost difference between the basic spec (airframe, engine, transmission and basic instrumentation) and the final fly away cost. The Agusta looks more expensive initially but the end cost needs appreciating.
You will need to contact your local Eurocopter dealer and thrash it through with them adding all the bits and peices that you require including paint and interior and expect a big cost difference between the basic spec (airframe, engine, transmission and basic instrumentation) and the final fly away cost. The Agusta looks more expensive initially but the end cost needs appreciating.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,670
Likes: 1
From: UK
You really will need to draw up a spec list before asking general questions like:
how much is a lexus 300???
type of engines
level of IF suite
seating arrangements
overwater capability
etc etc
The absolute basic lada level is around 5,,500,000 euros.
how much is a lexus 300???
type of engines
level of IF suite
seating arrangements
overwater capability
etc etc
The absolute basic lada level is around 5,,500,000 euros.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Hot-humid and green!
Hello all,
okay, here it goes, "I know someone who knows someone" who plays with the idea to aquire a VIP/Corporate EC135. My interest is to get into this ship!
I do have the slight hope to get involved into the decision making process for the final-order-specs as well.
Knowing that VIP ships get rather heavy by the time they are done, I am entertaining the idea to suggest a EC145 instead, IF the requirements for transport go beyond the 4-seat VIP-135 version (4 in the back one on the co-pilot seat).
Money is always a question, but in this case it is secondary.
My concern is to be able to use full fuel at most all times, even thinking about the removable aux-tank (Long distance between available fuel stops).
Basic question is:
Are there ANY EC145 or BK117 out there in a VIP/Corporate configuration? I am talking leather/bar/satphone/pop-outs/etc.
These people are rather set for EC, however I appreciate any and all suggestions (at this time you are only bringing ME up to speed in the VIP helicopter world!)
What is your take on the idea of a VIP-EC145?
I have all the EC-info on the 145, there is no VIP interior like the 135 available, so I also appreciate hints towards companies that could transform a basic 145 into a VIP-transport!
I do have some questions to the EC-135 in this role too, but I will start a new thread for that or hook on the existing 135/355 discussion. However first I would like to wait for your response to this here!
Thanks to all in advance!
ECdoesit
okay, here it goes, "I know someone who knows someone" who plays with the idea to aquire a VIP/Corporate EC135. My interest is to get into this ship!
I do have the slight hope to get involved into the decision making process for the final-order-specs as well.
Knowing that VIP ships get rather heavy by the time they are done, I am entertaining the idea to suggest a EC145 instead, IF the requirements for transport go beyond the 4-seat VIP-135 version (4 in the back one on the co-pilot seat).
Money is always a question, but in this case it is secondary.
My concern is to be able to use full fuel at most all times, even thinking about the removable aux-tank (Long distance between available fuel stops).
Basic question is:
Are there ANY EC145 or BK117 out there in a VIP/Corporate configuration? I am talking leather/bar/satphone/pop-outs/etc.
These people are rather set for EC, however I appreciate any and all suggestions (at this time you are only bringing ME up to speed in the VIP helicopter world!)
What is your take on the idea of a VIP-EC145?
I have all the EC-info on the 145, there is no VIP interior like the 135 available, so I also appreciate hints towards companies that could transform a basic 145 into a VIP-transport!
I do have some questions to the EC-135 in this role too, but I will start a new thread for that or hook on the existing 135/355 discussion. However first I would like to wait for your response to this here!
Thanks to all in advance!
ECdoesit
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 813
Likes: 2
From: the hills of halton
Does the Ec-145 have the little spoiler under the clamshell doors like on the 105-ls ? I wuz told on the 105 it was something about the TR not being as effective if the air flow on the fuselage was allowed to stay attached too for back.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 40
From: On the big blue planet
5-Blade-Rotor for EC 145
A 5-Blade-Rotor was tested o a EC 145 in April 2006 at Donauwörth, Germany. More on www.eurocopter.com News. It looks like an improved rotorsystem of the EC 135
