EC135
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 646
Likes: 18
From: Europe
Category A - external equipment
The Category A performance, Mass limitations - specified for:
Clear heliport - external equipment is a factor
VTOL(1-3) - external equipment is NOT a factor
Logical, when it comes to Cruise flight OEI, external equipment is a factor at Vy (65 kts) - actually in the exact same way as with Clear heliport.
I'm having problems with understanding how Clear heliport Cat A ops. are effected by external equipment when TDP/LDP's are up to 40 kts (with the same deductions as at 65kts)
and
VTOL ops. are not effected by external equipment even when FLIR and the SX-16 are in the downwash - vertical drag region.
Any ideas?
Clear heliport - external equipment is a factor
VTOL(1-3) - external equipment is NOT a factor
Logical, when it comes to Cruise flight OEI, external equipment is a factor at Vy (65 kts) - actually in the exact same way as with Clear heliport.
I'm having problems with understanding how Clear heliport Cat A ops. are effected by external equipment when TDP/LDP's are up to 40 kts (with the same deductions as at 65kts)
and
VTOL ops. are not effected by external equipment even when FLIR and the SX-16 are in the downwash - vertical drag region.
Any ideas?
Last edited by Phoinix; 7th December 2014 at 09:07.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 646
Likes: 18
From: Europe
Anybody got the position of RH/LH installed hoist system? I could only find the mass of installed system (approx. 54 kg) but nothing on the position of the system and the lateral and longitudinal position for hoist load.
The supplement manual holds no required information, only a chart showing when you are ok and when not... not very accurate.
The supplement manual holds no required information, only a chart showing when you are ok and when not... not very accurate.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Joined: Nov 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,752
Likes: 64
From: Alles über die platz
Phoinix,
I have in front of me; FMS 9.2-20 "Supplement For External Hoist System LH/RH Side" ... pages 1-24.
Is this the same info you already have?
Para 6.1 of Supplement;
Mass and Balance Correction says " Refer to Equipment List entries in Section 6 of the basic Flight Manual.
From Sect 6 of FLM;
6.2.2 "An Equipment List form EL-1 is appended to this section and contains optional equipment of the particular helicopter when delivered. Each item on the list is provided with a number and description for identification, together with its mass, arm and moment."
Hope that's of some help
I have in front of me; FMS 9.2-20 "Supplement For External Hoist System LH/RH Side" ... pages 1-24.
Is this the same info you already have?
Para 6.1 of Supplement;
Mass and Balance Correction says " Refer to Equipment List entries in Section 6 of the basic Flight Manual.
From Sect 6 of FLM;
6.2.2 "An Equipment List form EL-1 is appended to this section and contains optional equipment of the particular helicopter when delivered. Each item on the list is provided with a number and description for identification, together with its mass, arm and moment."
Hope that's of some help
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 646
Likes: 18
From: Europe
Yes... but the hoist was not installed at delivery and there is no entry. ECD normally had SB's with details what to enter into the Equipment list, but I found none.
Do you happen to have a filled out EL for hoist?
Also the Supplement said nothing about the station for hoist cable (M&B calculations for hoist ops.) The Fig. 3 doesn't cut it for me
Do you happen to have a filled out EL for hoist?
Also the Supplement said nothing about the station for hoist cable (M&B calculations for hoist ops.) The Fig. 3 doesn't cut it for me
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Joined: Nov 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,752
Likes: 64
From: Alles über die platz
Sorry Phoinix, we don't have a hoist fitted, perhaps someone at Bond or possibly over on the continent will be able to help you on this one.
I take it you just want to know the mass, arm and moment of the hoist unit when fitted?
I take it you just want to know the mass, arm and moment of the hoist unit when fitted?
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,605
Likes: 6
From: UK
Hi Phoinix,
I can have a look at ours, they used to have winches fitted but I can't promise anything.
Otherwise ask Rotordomteur (I think that's his handle) he flies to the wind turbines, he should know. Also one of his aircraft works out of Humberside doing the same thing fi you want to ring them. The company is called Uni-Fly.
I can have a look at ours, they used to have winches fitted but I can't promise anything.
Otherwise ask Rotordomteur (I think that's his handle) he flies to the wind turbines, he should know. Also one of his aircraft works out of Humberside doing the same thing fi you want to ring them. The company is called Uni-Fly.
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
From: bora scirocco
Hi Phoenix,
check supplement 9.2-117.
Actually, there is nothing in RFM about that. Hoist is directly mounted on the transmission (correction: on transmission mount), no influence. You only have to add this 54 kg to the Gross Mass. After that, there is a chart in supp. 9.2-117 which tells you how much kg you can take on the hoist. It varies from 226 kg down to 150 kg (or 120 kg I'm not sure). So, it's not about the station and longitudinal CG (no influence), it's only about the Maximum Gross Weight and about the mass which you can take on hoist - lateral CG (that is what you must calculate for the conditions).
JR
check supplement 9.2-117.
Actually, there is nothing in RFM about that. Hoist is directly mounted on the transmission (correction: on transmission mount), no influence. You only have to add this 54 kg to the Gross Mass. After that, there is a chart in supp. 9.2-117 which tells you how much kg you can take on the hoist. It varies from 226 kg down to 150 kg (or 120 kg I'm not sure). So, it's not about the station and longitudinal CG (no influence), it's only about the Maximum Gross Weight and about the mass which you can take on hoist - lateral CG (that is what you must calculate for the conditions).
JR
Last edited by Jet Ranger; 28th May 2015 at 15:19. Reason: Add: transmission mount
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 696
Likes: 10
From: Shropshire
Hi Jet Ranger
The whole helicopter is mounted on the transmission so I'm not sure this statement quite stands up to scrutiny.
Cheers
TeeS
Hoist is directly mounted on the transmission, so station should be zero (0), no influence.
Cheers
TeeS
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 482
Likes: 44
From: 3nm SE of TNT, UK
Jet Ranger,
The C of G datum on the 135 - in common with most ABH products is 2.16 metres in front of the leveling point, (approx where the cyclic is).
In other words, out in front of the aircraft - consequently, all data points for things fitted are "minus".
The C of G datum on the 135 - in common with most ABH products is 2.16 metres in front of the leveling point, (approx where the cyclic is).
In other words, out in front of the aircraft - consequently, all data points for things fitted are "minus".
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
From: bora scirocco
Sorry if I expressed myself incorrectly...wanted to say...hoist is in line with rotor mast, so no influence on longitudinal CG (you can't find any data about the station in RFM or particular SUPPLEMENT)
JR
JR
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,796
Likes: 1
From: 1 Dunghill Mansions, Putney
That 'environmental tech testbed' spotted last September finally breaks cover:
Eco-friendly and eco-efficient technologies of tomorrow take to the sky with Airbus Helicopters’ Bluecopter demonstrator
For comparison:
.......
I/C
Eco-friendly and eco-efficient technologies of tomorrow take to the sky with Airbus Helicopters’ Bluecopter demonstrator
For comparison:
.......
I/C
Last edited by Ian Corrigible; 8th July 2015 at 17:04. Reason: Fixed dead image link
