EC135
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: foot of a mountain
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Might be totally offtrack, but how long ago was her last fenestron detailed check? Might not be the flight control side or auto-pilot but the fenestron blade horn or 2 binding in the spider or a blade and inner/outer bearing binding for instance ? Had it before in a 130 and it caused quite vicious feedback on the pedal and uncontrolled yaw. Don't know the 135-just drawing a comparison.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 3 Degrees North
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Havoc
I had the same problem on our new 135T2 (35hrsTT when it started to happen) a few month back
EC engineers tried replacing AHR1 under warranty but the problem remained even with new AHR1's; then a bright avionic engineer said it was the AP computer causing the problem. Senior EC staff did not believe him initially but when they changed the AP unit with a new one, it worked lol and has since with no further issue
Hope this can help you out
WLM
I had the same problem on our new 135T2 (35hrsTT when it started to happen) a few month back
EC engineers tried replacing AHR1 under warranty but the problem remained even with new AHR1's; then a bright avionic engineer said it was the AP computer causing the problem. Senior EC staff did not believe him initially but when they changed the AP unit with a new one, it worked lol and has since with no further issue
Hope this can help you out
WLM
P2 -> P2i
P2i upgrade (i = improved?)
Subscribe to EC T.I.P.I.(Technical Information Publication on Internet)
Download SB EC135-71-033 Power Plant – Version EC135 T2 and EC135 P2 – Retrofit to Version EC135 T2+ and EC135 P2+
You will have to go through the SB and compare your aircraft specification with what is required to accomplish the SB.
Main requirements are -
Mast with integrated drive link
Titanium Torque Struts
X-Y Fittings
Cat A switch conversion to High NR
FADEC software to allow High NR
Main Gearbox model and reduction and/or application of finite lives
VEMD Software
CAD Software
ADC 2 installed
FLM and all maintenance documentation is changed
All of the above depends on your current status.
"i" will then give you -
MTOW 2910 kg (although CAT A still 2835 kg)
– AEO TOP from 2 x 75% to 2 x 78% (6% increase in TOP)
– AEO Transient from 2 x 80% to 2 x 82%
– OEI MCP from 1 x 86% to 1 x 89.5%
The "price" also reflects the economics of the possibility of affecting sales of new aircraft.
Contact your local friendly EC Tech Rep and be sitting down when you get the quote!
Subscribe to EC T.I.P.I.(Technical Information Publication on Internet)
Download SB EC135-71-033 Power Plant – Version EC135 T2 and EC135 P2 – Retrofit to Version EC135 T2+ and EC135 P2+
You will have to go through the SB and compare your aircraft specification with what is required to accomplish the SB.
Main requirements are -
Mast with integrated drive link
Titanium Torque Struts
X-Y Fittings
Cat A switch conversion to High NR
FADEC software to allow High NR
Main Gearbox model and reduction and/or application of finite lives
VEMD Software
CAD Software
ADC 2 installed
FLM and all maintenance documentation is changed
All of the above depends on your current status.
"i" will then give you -
MTOW 2910 kg (although CAT A still 2835 kg)
– AEO TOP from 2 x 75% to 2 x 78% (6% increase in TOP)
– AEO Transient from 2 x 80% to 2 x 82%
– OEI MCP from 1 x 86% to 1 x 89.5%
The "price" also reflects the economics of the possibility of affecting sales of new aircraft.
Contact your local friendly EC Tech Rep and be sitting down when you get the quote!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
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zami - Three or four years ago, the cost of converting a T2 to T2+ (it seems the nomenclature changes depending on whether the aircraft comes out of the factory as a P/T2i, or is retrofitted to make it a "+" designation) started at £130k - at which the members of the User Group, to which the announcement was made, all took sharp intakes of breath.
I'd be surprised if the figure is now much different, & doubt there would be much difference between a T or P conversion. RVDT correctly mentions a long list of modifications but, in effect, the real changes are the X-Y fittings (which may have been done already, but it's a comprehensive man-power job) and a different XMSN - if both are required, they're best accomplished at the same time, of course. The rest of it is mainly software changes and box change for VEMDs etc.
I've also heard from a colleague that, if you're looking at a Police role-equipped aircraft, you may have to consider some weight on the tail (approx 5kg, I believe) if you wish to maximise the AUM increase, from a foreward C of G point of view.
I'd be surprised if the figure is now much different, & doubt there would be much difference between a T or P conversion. RVDT correctly mentions a long list of modifications but, in effect, the real changes are the X-Y fittings (which may have been done already, but it's a comprehensive man-power job) and a different XMSN - if both are required, they're best accomplished at the same time, of course. The rest of it is mainly software changes and box change for VEMDs etc.
I've also heard from a colleague that, if you're looking at a Police role-equipped aircraft, you may have to consider some weight on the tail (approx 5kg, I believe) if you wish to maximise the AUM increase, from a foreward C of G point of view.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: St Gallen
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W and B with aux fuel tank
Hi
Eurocopter Germany just retrofited my chopper with aux fuel tank, that is placed in cargo area and has capacity 173kg of fuel.
As soon as I did some W and B calculations, I have doscovered, that unless I will have really fatty co-pilot, or two pax that are willing to sit whole time in opposite facing fron seats, I am behind rear limit of CG.
Since I fly usually myself, I am trying to figure out what to do, to be safe and legal. Anyone has experince, how to ballance this situation?
Eurocopter Germany just retrofited my chopper with aux fuel tank, that is placed in cargo area and has capacity 173kg of fuel.
As soon as I did some W and B calculations, I have doscovered, that unless I will have really fatty co-pilot, or two pax that are willing to sit whole time in opposite facing fron seats, I am behind rear limit of CG.
Since I fly usually myself, I am trying to figure out what to do, to be safe and legal. Anyone has experince, how to ballance this situation?
RFM Section 6.6 TRIM WEIGHT INSTALLATION (OPTIONAL)
EC135 Maintenance Manual
IPC
L858M0002101 INST. TRIM WEIGHT - FIXED PARTS (FRONT)
L858M0003101 INST. TRIM WEIGHT - DETACHABLE PARTS (FRONT)
Effectivity: Trim system
85-80-00,*2*Location - Trim System
Trim System, Nose Cover
The trim system, nose cover is installed in the forward part of the cabin structure in the area of the nose cover.
The trim system, nose cover can be accessed through the nose cover. The weight mounting can be removed as assy through it.
If necessary, the trim weights can also be individually removed (Note: applies only if the original configuration is re-established
during installation).
Trim System, Rear Structure
The trim system, rear structure is installed on the aft section of the rear structure in the area of the upper tail skid neck.
The trim system, rear structure can be accessed through a cover. The number of the trim weights can be individually determined
and can be checked from the outside via a sight glass in the cover.
Note: These are both 85.00.00 Optional equipment and NOT fitted to standard aircraft.
EC135 Maintenance Manual
IPC
L858M0002101 INST. TRIM WEIGHT - FIXED PARTS (FRONT)
L858M0003101 INST. TRIM WEIGHT - DETACHABLE PARTS (FRONT)
Effectivity: Trim system
85-80-00,*2*Location - Trim System
Trim System, Nose Cover
The trim system, nose cover is installed in the forward part of the cabin structure in the area of the nose cover.
The trim system, nose cover can be accessed through the nose cover. The weight mounting can be removed as assy through it.
If necessary, the trim weights can also be individually removed (Note: applies only if the original configuration is re-established
during installation).
Trim System, Rear Structure
The trim system, rear structure is installed on the aft section of the rear structure in the area of the upper tail skid neck.
The trim system, rear structure can be accessed through a cover. The number of the trim weights can be individually determined
and can be checked from the outside via a sight glass in the cover.
Note: These are both 85.00.00 Optional equipment and NOT fitted to standard aircraft.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: UK
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Pie
Available for hire, stout
pilot, 135 rating expired but about to renew, good with CG charts!
I did some CG calcs for potential aux tank fitments some time ago and came to the same conclusion.
Eat more pie.
pilot, 135 rating expired but about to renew, good with CG charts!I did some CG calcs for potential aux tank fitments some time ago and came to the same conclusion.
Eat more pie.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: 3 Degrees North
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ILblog: that is quite a good point to mention as we are waiting ourselves for our retrofit Aux tank. It concerns me that ECD would have done your retrofit but not mentioned/installed the optional trims in place???
By the way, what did ECD charge you for the retrofit? ECM (Eurocopter Malaysia) is charging Euros175K for the complete retrofit.... When we queried the high cost, they replied that ECD had never performed an Aux tank retrofit before??? and we had to pay for all the SB, approvals and so forth....
Rgds
WLM
By the way, what did ECD charge you for the retrofit? ECM (Eurocopter Malaysia) is charging Euros175K for the complete retrofit.... When we queried the high cost, they replied that ECD had never performed an Aux tank retrofit before??? and we had to pay for all the SB, approvals and so forth....
Rgds
WLM
WLM,
That would be correct as there is NO SB currently for the AUX Tank installation.
Keep in mind the difference between retrofit and manufacture. If the tank was installed by ECD it was probably done under a manufacturers design approval. If it is done by EC Malaysia then technically they are not the manufacturer.
There has been a concerted effort over the last few years by ECD to include SB's to cover retrofits and they have obviously been completed with the items of highest demand first.
For the AUX Tank SB EC135-28-017 -
So the claims made by EC Malaysia are probably correct.
The above issue is even significant within ECD as there is a definite line on the ground beween manufacture and MRO.
I have raised this point that more support is needed in this area many times after going through extensive mods on a 135 when virtually none of the optional equipment installation was covered by SB. Wire Strike, Floats, SMD68, etc etc.
You would think that as there are now ~ 1000 of these aircraft in service this would be addressed by now. Sometimes I wonder about ECD's knowledge of it's own market.
That would be correct as there is NO SB currently for the AUX Tank installation.
Keep in mind the difference between retrofit and manufacture. If the tank was installed by ECD it was probably done under a manufacturers design approval. If it is done by EC Malaysia then technically they are not the manufacturer.
There has been a concerted effort over the last few years by ECD to include SB's to cover retrofits and they have obviously been completed with the items of highest demand first.
For the AUX Tank SB EC135-28-017 -
Compliance:
By way of this Service Bulletin no work can be accomplished on the helicopter. It is for mere information
purposes about a possible retrofit only. The Service Bulletin may only be accomplished by ECD, an
ECD service station or a service station authorized by ECD.
Upon return of the reply form sheet (the last page of this Service Bulletin) ECD verifies the authorization
of the given service station and makes an offer.
After the order has been received, a helicopter–specific, simple Service Bulletin (cover SB) will be
created which only applies to the given service station and to the given S/N. This helicopter–specific
Service Bulletin is attributed with the same number as this Service Bulletin has plus an addition after
the issue sequence number (/01)
By way of this Service Bulletin no work can be accomplished on the helicopter. It is for mere information
purposes about a possible retrofit only. The Service Bulletin may only be accomplished by ECD, an
ECD service station or a service station authorized by ECD.
Upon return of the reply form sheet (the last page of this Service Bulletin) ECD verifies the authorization
of the given service station and makes an offer.
After the order has been received, a helicopter–specific, simple Service Bulletin (cover SB) will be
created which only applies to the given service station and to the given S/N. This helicopter–specific
Service Bulletin is attributed with the same number as this Service Bulletin has plus an addition after
the issue sequence number (/01)
The above issue is even significant within ECD as there is a definite line on the ground beween manufacture and MRO.
I have raised this point that more support is needed in this area many times after going through extensive mods on a 135 when virtually none of the optional equipment installation was covered by SB. Wire Strike, Floats, SMD68, etc etc.
You would think that as there are now ~ 1000 of these aircraft in service this would be addressed by now. Sometimes I wonder about ECD's knowledge of it's own market.
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Well I am not sure if only ECD can do retrofit? When I have asked for pricing the ECD offered, that I can do retrofit in ECD or I can do retrofit in my local maintenance organization. The price is same as above.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Europe
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tail rotor failure
Performing Cat A vertical ops helicopter stays exposed to forced landing in case of tail rotor failure, all the way up until reaching safe speed.
Does anyone have figures about failure probabilities of engine and tail rotor in order to evaluate the exposure risk?
Does anyone have figures about failure probabilities of engine and tail rotor in order to evaluate the exposure risk?