EC135
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: on the "Big Blue Marble"
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135 needs
Chopper spotter, dolly, trolly or movable pad as the ground handling wheels were designed by the Germans to get back at the French for loosing WW2 (the big one) and the 135 is a real "pig dog" to move in and out of the hangar with literally any fuel on board. Oh, and maybe a pilot seat that goes up and down a little bit as after about 2 hours ones legs tend to go to sleep.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uk
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gmbH - you are right about the ground handling wheels. They are awful because they take all the shiny paint off, they're too heavy to handle and moving the heli on them is difficult. The G/H wheels of the A119/Bell are great.
We land on a platform on rails and pull/push with a little quad bike - works just fine except when it's icy which is not that often.
We land on a platform on rails and pull/push with a little quad bike - works just fine except when it's icy which is not that often.
tigerfish
gmbh,
Ive said this before I know, but in relation to ground handling of the 135 you cant do better than to use a TLC helilift. All of the 16 UK police users of the 135 use them & as far as I know love em. I have no connection with the company but just love the bullet proof engineering of it.
check with any of the units.
Ive said this before I know, but in relation to ground handling of the 135 you cant do better than to use a TLC helilift. All of the 16 UK police users of the 135 use them & as far as I know love em. I have no connection with the company but just love the bullet proof engineering of it.
check with any of the units.
VH,
Jammies for cuddling?
The TLC handling machine is the cat's meow....and some darn nice folks who make it too. Best ground handling machine I have ever seen.
Jammies for cuddling?
The TLC handling machine is the cat's meow....and some darn nice folks who make it too. Best ground handling machine I have ever seen.
Fascinating thread - amazed to read that people have problems with aft CofG! Our sort-of-police-role aircraft are restricted to something like an hour's fuel if the 2 heavy pilots are on shift - we'd do anything within reason to get the CofG back a bit. APFS is 1951kg for our heavier aircraft before role equipment is strapped-on.
Agree that air-con is a must, although the ones fitted to our (2) aircraft are often unserviceable at the end of a long supply chain. You may also find that the sand-filter is needed, although our engines have had significant erosion problems. Take a look at the performance penalties for both in Sect 9.2 first, though.
If you're getting Eurocopter's engineer to fit the sunshades in the cockpit, make sure you check the intercom leads BEFORE he leaves the site. Stanley knives can take a big bite out of those things; not very pleasant when you discover it after the man has gone back to Germany.
Our big ongoing difficulty is blade erosion - stay away from sandy landing areas, OK?!
...and finally, that TLC Helilift is one of the few pieces of kit which does everything you would want it to. The customers here have 3!
Agree that air-con is a must, although the ones fitted to our (2) aircraft are often unserviceable at the end of a long supply chain. You may also find that the sand-filter is needed, although our engines have had significant erosion problems. Take a look at the performance penalties for both in Sect 9.2 first, though.
If you're getting Eurocopter's engineer to fit the sunshades in the cockpit, make sure you check the intercom leads BEFORE he leaves the site. Stanley knives can take a big bite out of those things; not very pleasant when you discover it after the man has gone back to Germany.
Our big ongoing difficulty is blade erosion - stay away from sandy landing areas, OK?!
...and finally, that TLC Helilift is one of the few pieces of kit which does everything you would want it to. The customers here have 3!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UK
Age: 47
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Radio's which store some radio frequency's and then can be selecting by a switch on the cyclic.
Air con
VEMD where the scala only goes up to 13.5 which will be closest to you and is more pronounced, and anything below 5 is compressed that way you can judge better how much power you are pulling without getting a magnifying glass out.
Short Dash.
Air con
VEMD where the scala only goes up to 13.5 which will be closest to you and is more pronounced, and anything below 5 is compressed that way you can judge better how much power you are pulling without getting a magnifying glass out.
Short Dash.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Finland
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Hi All,
Seems like the weight is bit of a problem for the EC135 and with an endurance of only 2h 20'! What about if you operate it(P2/T2) CAT A with lets say 4 persons on board, what kind of endurance do you get??
Seems like the weight is bit of a problem for the EC135 and with an endurance of only 2h 20'! What about if you operate it(P2/T2) CAT A with lets say 4 persons on board, what kind of endurance do you get??
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: oceanside
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thud and blunder: we are about to introduce our new step mount at HAI. you mentioned fwd c/g issues on your airframe. what is your specific equipment fit
- sx-16
- flir camera (type?)
thanks
dr
- sx-16
- flir camera (type?)
thanks
dr
chopperdr,
SX16 is on nose-mount, ie forward of the panel where some aircraft have the landing light fitted (ours is moved to the skid crosstube, by the dead-weight PA speakers...). Field of travel limited to just 180 degrees in azimuth, pilot has no controller on the collective - not good.
The camera is the Wescam kit mentioned in the original Eurocopter book - I'm not at work so cannot provide the part number, but it's not the modern (MX15?) turret. Be warned that the weights and arms given for this kit in Sect 6 of the FLM are completely wrong. We wouldn't have been able to fly at all if the book figures (from memory, 207kgs for the entire system) had been correct. However, after reweighing and then getting the figures checked by a Eurocopter engineer we found that the system actually weighed 90.7 kgs. Big difference. However, the customers bought the old-fashioned console (CRT screen, processor, VHS(!) recorder all on a mount IN FRONT OF the rear seats). That's what throws our CofG way forward - make sure you shove all that stuff in the boot where it belongs and get an LCD instead of the heavy tube.
You'd get better info on how the kit should be fitted either from Bond in the UK or the BGS in Germany, who both put the nightsun on the left skid-front mount.
SX16 is on nose-mount, ie forward of the panel where some aircraft have the landing light fitted (ours is moved to the skid crosstube, by the dead-weight PA speakers...). Field of travel limited to just 180 degrees in azimuth, pilot has no controller on the collective - not good.
The camera is the Wescam kit mentioned in the original Eurocopter book - I'm not at work so cannot provide the part number, but it's not the modern (MX15?) turret. Be warned that the weights and arms given for this kit in Sect 6 of the FLM are completely wrong. We wouldn't have been able to fly at all if the book figures (from memory, 207kgs for the entire system) had been correct. However, after reweighing and then getting the figures checked by a Eurocopter engineer we found that the system actually weighed 90.7 kgs. Big difference. However, the customers bought the old-fashioned console (CRT screen, processor, VHS(!) recorder all on a mount IN FRONT OF the rear seats). That's what throws our CofG way forward - make sure you shove all that stuff in the boot where it belongs and get an LCD instead of the heavy tube.
You'd get better info on how the kit should be fitted either from Bond in the UK or the BGS in Germany, who both put the nightsun on the left skid-front mount.
It is noteworthy that this thread has drifted from nose heavy to tail heavy and back again. And all eminating from the same question of what would you fit on a standard EC135 airframe.
All the variety of answers has tended to queer the pitch for the standard question of 'How does type X fly?' ... and underlines that there is no real answer without first clarifying the specification, equipment fit, role and required mission. All tempered with compromise. Yes, fly two pilot but do not forget to slide a few kg of lead down the tail boom.
That neither the 'standard' Eurocopter police fit [everything up front on mounting beams] and the McAlpine role pod solution actually represent a finite answer to the tail heavy bare airframe is noteworthy. The best place for everything might be on a centre line beam... but wait on... here come lateral CoG to mess up the sums!
It all points to a need to be an expert in weight and balance design BEFORE you sign off the final payment!
All the variety of answers has tended to queer the pitch for the standard question of 'How does type X fly?' ... and underlines that there is no real answer without first clarifying the specification, equipment fit, role and required mission. All tempered with compromise. Yes, fly two pilot but do not forget to slide a few kg of lead down the tail boom.
That neither the 'standard' Eurocopter police fit [everything up front on mounting beams] and the McAlpine role pod solution actually represent a finite answer to the tail heavy bare airframe is noteworthy. The best place for everything might be on a centre line beam... but wait on... here come lateral CoG to mess up the sums!
It all points to a need to be an expert in weight and balance design BEFORE you sign off the final payment!
Join Date: Apr 2002
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thud and blunder: our mount is very similar to original multipurpose step which has proved to be very popular. on our design we have:
- shortened the length of our tube from the front cross tube forward, to reduce bending moment
- put identical end bosses to receive our gen II dovetail at front and rear so that, landing lights/p.a. / downlink antenna etc can be mounted on the rear of the tube
- increased wall thickness of tube
- added more height to the fwd goose neck for additional ground clearance
- goose neck is mfg from solid billet aluminum and bolted together, no welds
- delron flat step is attached to top of tube to assist entry/exit
as for c/g of external role equipment, that part is out of our hands. we are always looking for suggestions and comments from experienced operators.
p.m. if you want to see some jpegs
thanks
dr
- shortened the length of our tube from the front cross tube forward, to reduce bending moment
- put identical end bosses to receive our gen II dovetail at front and rear so that, landing lights/p.a. / downlink antenna etc can be mounted on the rear of the tube
- increased wall thickness of tube
- added more height to the fwd goose neck for additional ground clearance
- goose neck is mfg from solid billet aluminum and bolted together, no welds
- delron flat step is attached to top of tube to assist entry/exit
as for c/g of external role equipment, that part is out of our hands. we are always looking for suggestions and comments from experienced operators.
p.m. if you want to see some jpegs
thanks
dr
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Aus, Europe & everywhere in between
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Captain Hollywood
Look in the brochures for yourself and pick out the nice things that you would like/need.
The one saving grace is that there are companies out there that make fantastic after market products (DART or Aeronautical Accessories). You would get much more bang for your buck if you steer away from Eurocopter products as they are very expensive.
You are on the Gold Coast?? Take a trip up to Archerfield and talk to the QLD Rescue guys.
Look in the brochures for yourself and pick out the nice things that you would like/need.
The one saving grace is that there are companies out there that make fantastic after market products (DART or Aeronautical Accessories). You would get much more bang for your buck if you steer away from Eurocopter products as they are very expensive.
You are on the Gold Coast?? Take a trip up to Archerfield and talk to the QLD Rescue guys.
Chopperdr,
Good for you - have re-read your first post as well, and now see your perspective. Sounds like you're making something genuinely useful. Sadly I have no say in what the customers here actually buy; I think it fair to say that efficiency is way down their list of purchase specifications...
Back to the original poster, I think Oogle has some of the best points made so far. Don't feel you have to buy from Eurocopter - some of the other "completions" people out there, many of whom actually listen to what customers really want, can do a very good deal. Personally I wouldn't have put the 135 as top of my list for VIP work - passenger comfort/vibration/endurance issues mainly - but if that's what you're working with then get onto some of those non-Eurocopter agents.
Good for you - have re-read your first post as well, and now see your perspective. Sounds like you're making something genuinely useful. Sadly I have no say in what the customers here actually buy; I think it fair to say that efficiency is way down their list of purchase specifications...
Back to the original poster, I think Oogle has some of the best points made so far. Don't feel you have to buy from Eurocopter - some of the other "completions" people out there, many of whom actually listen to what customers really want, can do a very good deal. Personally I wouldn't have put the 135 as top of my list for VIP work - passenger comfort/vibration/endurance issues mainly - but if that's what you're working with then get onto some of those non-Eurocopter agents.
I'll get me coat......
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Age: 51
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Appreciate all the info fellas. Oogles suggestion is exactly what I'm doing at the moment, just choosing all the toys I want! 
Cheers,
CH
Cheers,
CH
I'll get me coat......
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
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Thanks for all the suggestions but it looks like we're just getting another new EC130! Oh well, I'll just have to make do I s'pose!
Cheers,
CH
Cheers,
CH