Robinson R44
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 75
Likes: 3
From: Blackbushe City Limits
Bladder tank retrofit
What are the implications for 44s in the UK that have not had this carried out by the date in the SB please?
Is it down to the CAA to enforce this as an AD (like CASA has if I have understood a previous post correctly), and until such time actually carries no weight in the UK? So purely at the owner's discretion?
TIME OF COMPLIANCE: As soon as practical, but no later than 30 April 2013.
Is it down to the CAA to enforce this as an AD (like CASA has if I have understood a previous post correctly), and until such time actually carries no weight in the UK? So purely at the owner's discretion?
TIME OF COMPLIANCE: As soon as practical, but no later than 30 April 2013.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,365
Likes: 0
From: UK
In the UK, the CAA can no longer issue ADs: now down to EASA. Of course, the primary source for USA manufactured aircraft would normally be the FAA. It is early days yet, but EASA may have a different philosophy about urgency and how safe is safe. The CAA and EASA seemed to have a different view/approach about the EC 225 gearbox issue.
Last edited by Helinut; 1st May 2013 at 13:07.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 730
Likes: 0
From: Australia
As As350 said....I've lost 2 mates in the last two years from a post crash fire at slow speed low level, nearly lost another mate that was in the same accident. He has major burns. I nearly lost my own life if it was 30mins earlier that same day doing check rides. It can't happen soon enough.
Last edited by belly tank; 1st May 2013 at 22:33.
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: Wrong Town
SBs are at the owners discretion. Only the FAA or EASA can change it into an AD. Most people I deal with are having them done when the aircraft is due a rebuild. It's a £10,000 mod between buying the kit, having it fitted and then having it painted and matched to the rest of the aircraft.
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 137
Likes: 3
From: downunder
Fsx
How much does a funeral cost, I just can't understand how anyone could justify the delay just as I can't understand how Robinson isn't fitting the total cost of the tank mod. If it was a car that caught fire when ever it got rear ended there would be no way the car company would expect the owner to pay for a safety rectification
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: West Mids
Who should foot the bill?
You may like to scroll down this link which allegedgly details correspondence between a R44 owner and RHC.
http://www.helicopter-sales.co.uk/********.php
There are a couple of unrelated items at the beginning just keep scrolling until you get to the SB78A item
http://www.helicopter-sales.co.uk/********.php
There are a couple of unrelated items at the beginning just keep scrolling until you get to the SB78A item
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 959
Likes: 3
From: New Zealand
There's a gingerbeer called "Doodle" in NZ with a fixed price NZD$16,560 for the R44 bladders and will travel to the site:
Robinson R44 Fuel Bladder Kits | Trade Me
Love the "customer reference" ! :-D
Robinson R44 Fuel Bladder Kits | Trade Me
Love the "customer reference" ! :-D
Last edited by krypton_john; 6th May 2013 at 21:31.
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
From: Canada
as350nut:
Ford Pinto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
TC:
This assumes it's an 'unsafe' design. Based on most of the arguments in this thread, if they were applied to all types, we would have most of the helicopters in the world struck from the register.
Warning, my opinion is based on a little over 600 hrs in the R22 and R44.
Flown within the envelope by a competent pilot these a/c are as safe as any out there. I am supportive of additional safety features, such as bladder tanks, but I fail to see that any of these accidents was caused by a lack of tanks. All to often these aircraft are being flown into solid objects, run out of fuel, overloaded, or just generally mishandled.
Ford Pinto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
TC:
Homonculus - arguing in favour of a poorly designed helo, surely is worse than having it removed in the first instance.
One would hope that eventually someone - either another entrepreneur or FR himself might build a more user friendly lawn mower in future simply because of the onslaught of complaints about it.
Of course you are right - because of the Robbo, many more are now flying....but you know what I'm about to say next, don't you: many more are now dead
One would hope that eventually someone - either another entrepreneur or FR himself might build a more user friendly lawn mower in future simply because of the onslaught of complaints about it.
Of course you are right - because of the Robbo, many more are now flying....but you know what I'm about to say next, don't you: many more are now dead
Warning, my opinion is based on a little over 600 hrs in the R22 and R44.
Flown within the envelope by a competent pilot these a/c are as safe as any out there. I am supportive of additional safety features, such as bladder tanks, but I fail to see that any of these accidents was caused by a lack of tanks. All to often these aircraft are being flown into solid objects, run out of fuel, overloaded, or just generally mishandled.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 605
Likes: 0
From: Midlands
Bladder tanks
Hurrah for common sense Down Under. I appeal to all owners globally to book their machines in forthwith for the work and not wait for the inevitable (?) AD.
Taking innocent passengers in an un-modded machine is totally irresponsible IMO.
Pilot & Apprentice - Not sure if you get it. I agree that most accidents can be attributed to pilot error. If I screw up, as indeed so can you(!), investing just a few percent of my overall expenditure on an R44 in making the machine significantly safer for me and my innocent passengers is a no-brainer.
Hairy
Taking innocent passengers in an un-modded machine is totally irresponsible IMO.
Pilot & Apprentice - Not sure if you get it. I agree that most accidents can be attributed to pilot error. If I screw up, as indeed so can you(!), investing just a few percent of my overall expenditure on an R44 in making the machine significantly safer for me and my innocent passengers is a no-brainer.
Hairy
Last edited by Hairyplane; 9th May 2013 at 11:08.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
From: England & Scotland
Powerlimited
Yup! Seems I showed up before the whole job was finished. Inserts in the fuel gauges and the caps were off to be touched-up.
Dipstick is a CAA requirement, and the aluminium one we have is not useful - risk of puncture and wrong calibration. Fabrication time.
Yup! Seems I showed up before the whole job was finished. Inserts in the fuel gauges and the caps were off to be touched-up.
Dipstick is a CAA requirement, and the aluminium one we have is not useful - risk of puncture and wrong calibration. Fabrication time.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,191
Likes: 0
From: lancs.UK
First, I have to state that I have absoloutely NO hands-on knowledge about the bladders..........Now.
A big "rubber" sack, lining a metal tank...presumably the openings for fill and demand are both clamped/gasketted/bonded to the openings in the metal tank.
These bladders are (if they're fit for purpose) strong enough that the metal tank can be severely deformed/distorted, yet the bladder will retain it's integrity with a large weight of fuel sloshing around in itand possible gross misalignment between inlet and outlet.
Anyone want to "flame " that hypothesis?
So why all this paranoia about dipsticks?....the bladder spreads away from the filler and is impossible to "use" to empty,-therefore there is a layer of fuel ALWAYS spreading the bottom and thus the lower-sides.
If Robbo were doing the job properly, there would be a bonded-on "crash-plate" beneath a guide-tube so the dipstick has only one direction to go and could not puncture the base..
A properly-designed dipstick would have a cross-piece or flange at the "handle" end so it wouldn't touch the bottom,anyway.
A bladder that's strong-enough to meet the service-requirements is unlikely to be damaged by a non-metallic dipstick dropping under it's own weight.
One would hope a Rotary pilot would have the intelligence to refrain from having at it like Dartagnan
the smooth, rounded tip should make penetration impossible anyway.
As a former petrol Retailer, I've dipped a lot of Motor-Spirit, Kero and Diesel tanks,taken deliveries and checked the tanker-dips and drained tanks!
So, my advice is to examine objectively and dip intelligently!
A big "rubber" sack, lining a metal tank...presumably the openings for fill and demand are both clamped/gasketted/bonded to the openings in the metal tank.
These bladders are (if they're fit for purpose) strong enough that the metal tank can be severely deformed/distorted, yet the bladder will retain it's integrity with a large weight of fuel sloshing around in itand possible gross misalignment between inlet and outlet.
Anyone want to "flame " that hypothesis?
So why all this paranoia about dipsticks?....the bladder spreads away from the filler and is impossible to "use" to empty,-therefore there is a layer of fuel ALWAYS spreading the bottom and thus the lower-sides.
If Robbo were doing the job properly, there would be a bonded-on "crash-plate" beneath a guide-tube so the dipstick has only one direction to go and could not puncture the base..
A properly-designed dipstick would have a cross-piece or flange at the "handle" end so it wouldn't touch the bottom,anyway.
A bladder that's strong-enough to meet the service-requirements is unlikely to be damaged by a non-metallic dipstick dropping under it's own weight.
One would hope a Rotary pilot would have the intelligence to refrain from having at it like Dartagnan
the smooth, rounded tip should make penetration impossible anyway.As a former petrol Retailer, I've dipped a lot of Motor-Spirit, Kero and Diesel tanks,taken deliveries and checked the tanker-dips and drained tanks!
So, my advice is to examine objectively and dip intelligently!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
From: England & Scotland
I don't disagree with anything that you say.
However, I will be replacing the old dipstick with one that is not made of metal with square edges, does not over-read by virtue of being calibrated for a tank containing 1.5 US gallon more capacity, and which is slightly shorter so that when the cross-bar meets the top of the filler neck the base of the dipstick is not in contact with the floor of the tank.
I don't see the disadvantage in designing out the residual risks (even if very small) but more so when multiple pilots use the machine on a lease-basis (if the tank lining were to be damaged I would be unlikely to be able to pin the cost on the person who damaged it), and the machine is used for training purposes so PUT will also be 'dipping'.
Each to their own
John
However, I will be replacing the old dipstick with one that is not made of metal with square edges, does not over-read by virtue of being calibrated for a tank containing 1.5 US gallon more capacity, and which is slightly shorter so that when the cross-bar meets the top of the filler neck the base of the dipstick is not in contact with the floor of the tank.
I don't see the disadvantage in designing out the residual risks (even if very small) but more so when multiple pilots use the machine on a lease-basis (if the tank lining were to be damaged I would be unlikely to be able to pin the cost on the person who damaged it), and the machine is used for training purposes so PUT will also be 'dipping'.
Each to their own
John
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: Europe
Does this R44II have good engine or low power?
Helicopter 1504 lb 682 kg
Fuel 43 gal 260 lb 118 kg
Pilot 200 lb 90 kg
Pax 200 lb 90 kg
Pax 185 lb 85 kg
Total 2349 lb 1065 kg
OAT 79 F 26°C
QNH 30.00 inHg 1016 mb
Altitude 360 ft MSL
Hovering 3 ft AGL
Manifold pressure 26 in
Helicopter 1504 lb 682 kg
Fuel 43 gal 260 lb 118 kg
Pilot 200 lb 90 kg
Pax 200 lb 90 kg
Pax 185 lb 85 kg
Total 2349 lb 1065 kg
OAT 79 F 26°C
QNH 30.00 inHg 1016 mb
Altitude 360 ft MSL
Hovering 3 ft AGL
Manifold pressure 26 in
Last edited by roger1x2003; 15th June 2013 at 22:05.
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
From: Sydney
Does not look correct to me. Sure, you are close to MAUW, but you should be able to OGE hover off in a R44II with 3 guys and full fuel. It's not that hot @ 26 degrees.
Either the engine is under power or you have forgotten to count the 20 kg of stuff jammed under the 4 seats !
Arrrj
Either the engine is under power or you have forgotten to count the 20 kg of stuff jammed under the 4 seats !
Arrrj
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
From: Utrecht, Nederland
BRISTOW ACADEMY INTRODUCES GLASS COCKPIT TECHNOLOGY TO R44 TRAINING FLEET
R44 glass cockpit
Bristow Academy Inc., a division of Bristow Group Inc., on Aug. 8 announced that its first four R44 Raven 1 training helicopters with the Garmin 500H electronic flight display have been introduced into service.
Bristow Academy trainees flying this R44 aircraft will be using dual 6.5-inch LCDs, mounted side-by-side in the bezel, with both Primary Flight Display (PFD) and Multifunction Display (MFD) capabilities directly in the field of view to help streamline instrument scanning.
Real-time True Airspeed calculations and selectable Winds Aloft data – as well as aircraft ground speed, GPS active waypoint, distance-to-waypoint and desired/actual track are just a few of the features available in the cockpit.
Bristow Academy trainees flying this R44 aircraft will be using dual 6.5-inch LCDs, mounted side-by-side in the bezel, with both Primary Flight Display (PFD) and Multifunction Display (MFD) capabilities directly in the field of view to help streamline instrument scanning.
Real-time True Airspeed calculations and selectable Winds Aloft data – as well as aircraft ground speed, GPS active waypoint, distance-to-waypoint and desired/actual track are just a few of the features available in the cockpit.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 368
Likes: 21
From: I am not sure where we are, but at least it is getting dark
Alternator Light
What could cause the alternator light to fail to illuminate in a Raven II?
When the mixture is pulled and the engine stops turning, the ALT light doesn't immediately illuminate. It takes at least 10 or 20 seconds for the light to come on. When the alternator switch is toggled "OFF", the light immediately turns on, however when toggled back "ON" within 10 or 20 seconds of engine shutdown, the light actually turns off again even though the engine isn't turning.
What is going on there? Maybe a loose ground connection somewhere?
When the mixture is pulled and the engine stops turning, the ALT light doesn't immediately illuminate. It takes at least 10 or 20 seconds for the light to come on. When the alternator switch is toggled "OFF", the light immediately turns on, however when toggled back "ON" within 10 or 20 seconds of engine shutdown, the light actually turns off again even though the engine isn't turning.
What is going on there? Maybe a loose ground connection somewhere?