Robinson R44

[helicopter-redeye]

Still it is an FAA/ CAA approved piece of aircraft equipment. It inflates the floats ...

[Choppersquad]

Buying R44

About to purchase an R44 Raven 1 or 2. Can anyone tell me what is the resale value on a Raven 1 versus a Raven 2 as everyone who has flown both machines is telling me there is no difference flying either in the UK as the raven 2 was not designed for this weather. 3 years from now will anyone want raven one,s ,comments if possable.

ps. raven 2,s sept delivery raven 1,s april from today.

[RDRickster]

2001 Raven w/ 583 hours on EBay with a Reserve starting bid of $260,000 found here...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...sPageName=WDVW

Raven I prices aren't fetching as much these days, especially the early models without hydraulics. Raven II commands high price and waiting list until RHC brings the second factory online. With ISO certification, it could be a while before it is in full production to meet demand. You may find a good deal on a Raven with hydraulics and that might suit you very well. Raven II only gets you 40 more pounds of payload and a little better performance (100 pounds more lift, but the blades way 60 pounds more - so it is really only 40 more pounds). Oh... just to clarify, I have no idea who the seller on EBay is... just giving my 2 cents. Also, I probably wouldn't purchase an aircraft from EBay, but the link has the seller's phone number... so, you should be able to arrange an inspection by your A&P. Of course, since you live in Ireland, that may change your purchase methods!

[helicopter-redeye]

It will have something to do with you selling something that somebody else wants to buy (especially with delivery lead times for new machines).

The Raven 1 is still a good machine with the original Lycoming engine and a lot less to buy then the 2.

Also if the machine you are selling has something special (i.e. pop out floats or it's an IFR trainer).

That being said, there are a lot of R1 and R2 machines in UK&I now so demand and supply are more balanced than when the hydraulic machines came out in 2000.

Check out Helidata Classified for resale prices in UK&I.

http://www.helidata.rotor.com/


It's the non hydraulic machines that are absolutely in trouble in price terms now IMHO. It is possible to pick one up for less than the price of an R22 (and not a new one).

The real question is how any of the prices will change if Robinson move to a different engine type to address the AVGAS question over time. A diesel running J A1, now that would change the game.

Also, if Robinson were to focus much/ all of their production capability on the R44 at the expemse of the R22, then there would be an uptick in demand for Ravens for training schools, which may rebalance prices a bit.

No hard and fast rule, depands on age/ condition/ hours/ salesmanship of seller/ equipment on board/ colour (of machine)/ etc

[Choppersquad]

thanks helicopter red eye
looked at a 25 year old 206 but think i will stick to the ravens.
i think i will go for the r2 as i feel the r1 will not be the easy machine to get rid of at a good price 3/4 years from now .but in saying that 46k extra is a lot extra when making up the funds for the r2.

[helicopter-redeye]

Buying the most recent product usually a safe bet (until the next release)

good luck

h-r

[HeliHunter]

Looking for an R44 to cross hire

Boys & Girls,

Anybody have or know of anyone with an R44 in the QLD area that might be available for a long term cross hire - Astro preferred.....

Send me a PM if you have anything.

Thanks

[helicopter-redeye]

Just out of idle curiosity on a Saturday evening before dinner, why "prefer" the Astro?



(in anticipation)

[HeliHunter]

Consistency & cost...... !

Hope you enjoyed your dinner !!

HH

[belly tank]

What type of ops would the machine be doing?

[headsethair]

Raven II on eBay Canada

Just out of interest : http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...519897717&rd=1

[Choppersquad]

206 operating cost

hi all
can any owner 206 operators tell me the hourly cost of a 206 111 based on approx 175 hours per year usage.
if possible has anyone also looked at the operating cost of
a r44 raven 2 based on its life span taking into consideration
its overhaul at end of life.
Some pilots will tell you are better buying a old jet ranger and paying for componants as they come up,the age of the machine will insure you are at its lowest cost when purchasing the machine insuring you do not loose as much when selling it versus r44 for half what you paid for a new one.
hopfully some one has operated both to settle the mind on the matter.


regards
choppersquad

[Cross-eyed]

If your willing to pay for an excellent model that will answer your question and more both Conklin de Decker (includes helicopter cost database) and SLM (in my opinion, has a better model) offer solutions. Both consider residual value.

Conklin is at: http://www.conklindd.com/cgi-bin/sof...87d+1107062294

SLM is at: http://www.aircraftcostanalysis.com/

I have used both but have not stake in either so I hope I'm not breaking any forum rules.

[Choppersquad]

thanks cross-eyed i will look into this,but there must
be a 206 owner on the forum who can give me
a idea .as we all know when turbines go wrong
it hurts the pocket.some one must have gone from a
turbine to a piston machine due to operating costs
who can settle this dicussion.

regards

cs

[Aesir]

I operate B206B and I find that the Bell published Direct operating cost is pretty accurate @ $200.- pr/hr.

The DOC does not include insurance, hangar, crew compensation & financing.

But the R44 is probably cheaper although I have not much experience with the R44 (only R22!) but comparing these two is comparing apples and oranges, they´re not really in the same class if you want to operate them commercially in my opinion.

Its like people often compare the B206B with the AS-350B2 which really competes with the B407.

I guess the B206B should be compared to EC120 really! and I know that the JetRanger will be cheaper and more reliable than the EC120 although the JetRanger will make more noise.

But for a cheap to run personal helicopter I´m sure the R-44 is fine.

[paco]

I know about 10 years ago, it was approx 80,000 pounds per year to run a 206 privately, meaning roughly 250 hours a year - if it was 60,000 one year, it would be 100,000 the next, so the figures were quite accurate.

We operate here on around 200 per hour, but our machines do 600 hours per year on commercial basis.

Phil

[helicopter-redeye]

I did the comparison a while ago for by business plan, so I'll post it when I can find in in the next day or so, - 206 -v- R44 (NB, the R44 won)

h-r

[206 jock]

If you want to keep your machine for your own use and don't need the 5th seat, I'd say the R44 R1 is the machine for you. I'd recommend that you ignore anyone's view on DOC on a 206: the reality is so tied to component times and - frankly - luck, that what the papers say and what you find in reality will be different.

I bought a 206, primarily as I wanted to lease it back to a commercial operator to contribute to operating costs (and keep the VAT-man off my back!). But frankly it's cost me a fortune in the last three years with unexpected repairs and components due. But I've had a good run for the last few year (touch wood), but with a turbine wheel due in a few months, who knows what horrors will come to light when they take it out!

But no doubt, the R44 will depreciate, where the 206 will hold its value - but be warned that the value of a 206 is more closely asscociated with component time than age.

Personally, I love the 206 to fly - it is better than the R44, but whether it's worth the difference is open to debate.

[Aesir]

I guess I have been lucky with the B206 I' ve flown or operated, but unscheduled maintenance has been pretty much non-existent, except for the * Janitrol heater, although right now, "Knock on wood" it works fine.

However "Choppersquad" you asked for operating cost based on 175 hr/yr. Those cost depend alot on the insurance, hangar cost, crew etc.. just figure around 200 USD pr/hr, or if you are in the UK on 200 Sterling, to be on the safe side and if you have unscheduled maintenance its just your bad luck, its really impossible to estimate the unscheduled maintenance required!

You dont really say if the aircraft is for commercial use or private? If for private then you cant go wrong with a Robinson, but commercially then:

[Choppersquad]

thanks guys
helicopter/red eye it would be great if you posted the info
on the costs 206/r44 if you find same.

cs