Would you become a professional helicopter pilot again?
Prune Fan.....If I lost my medical tomorrow....it would be like Lincoln freeing the Slaves! The Quacks would make a decision for me that I have struggled with and failed to do over the years. The tragedy is that I have waited till so late in life to make that decision. My long-term disability insurance will pay me the same net salary as I make now.....and I get to stay home....until age 72. I think I can handle that.....to quote another poster...."Get out of my chair!"
Where is my fishing rod when I want it....?
Where is my fishing rod when I want it....?
An Australian airline captain once said to me that having a Helicopter Licence was like having a passport to the a**hole of the world, because when he flew light twins, he would get to some out of the way place with his passengers, and there would be a helicopter waiting to take them further on their journey into whatever wilderness.
BUT - Do I enjoy my job?? After 33 years of flying helicopters, I still get out of my aircraft at the end of a day's flying with a big grin on my face. I love it!!
BUT - Do I enjoy my job?? After 33 years of flying helicopters, I still get out of my aircraft at the end of a day's flying with a big grin on my face. I love it!!
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Hours spent finding and merging 'training' threads made me think it might be a good time to resurrect this discussion.
Our membership continues to grow and newer members may not have seen this thread.
Well .................... would you?
Our membership continues to grow and newer members may not have seen this thread.
Well .................... would you?
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Rotary Wing (RW) aviation has many disciplines, IFR, VFR, aerial work (external load, long line), rescue, resource flying, offshore, EMS, mountain ect., ect. There are only a handful of pilots that can claim to be a master in all disciplines.
RW pilots recognize the professionalism required for each discipline, and therefore an IFR Super Puma Captain can respect the skill required of a JetRanger pilot working in the mountains.
The PLANKERS on the other hand only respect the guys flying the bigger iron.
Example a Dash 8 pilot will respect the professionalism of a B737 pilot but not a twin otter pilot, the 737 pilot looks up to the A340 guy ect.,ect..
Of course I could be full of crap, and the opinions I express are my own.
Would I do it again eh; yea. It’s better than cutting trees for a living.
RW pilots recognize the professionalism required for each discipline, and therefore an IFR Super Puma Captain can respect the skill required of a JetRanger pilot working in the mountains.
The PLANKERS on the other hand only respect the guys flying the bigger iron.
Example a Dash 8 pilot will respect the professionalism of a B737 pilot but not a twin otter pilot, the 737 pilot looks up to the A340 guy ect.,ect..
Of course I could be full of crap, and the opinions I express are my own.
Would I do it again eh; yea. It’s better than cutting trees for a living.
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IHL..well said! There is alot of mutual respect within the profession regardless of the type and profile of the work concerned. Unfortunately, the pay is not always the same.
But alot of small machines can and do make good revenue for operators and pilots alike. Because we are so diverse in our groups, it is very hard to standardize the pay we earn. Union's and other association have attempted to do this, and with some degree suceeded. But only for pilots in large companies with specific profiles. However, as one gains experiance thru their collective experiance ( pardon the pun) they usually can command a better pay and operate bigger and more sophisticated equipment...if thats what they want. When I was in the Army we received flight pay, even in training. As we put in the years we had significant increases in pay..including any promotion and time in pay grade. Compared to some of my friends who are Plank Drivers, I actually earn more. Some Helipilots have to get creative in how they earn their income.
You can work with the Police and expect £37k to £47k.
Or you can work Offshore with relatively the same flight hours in a multicrew environment for 10 years and get significantly more.
Please xcuse the spelling...it's getting late!!!!
Or go logging in Juneau, Alaska for 6 months and earn as much as $150k .......Gulf Helicopters pay their Captains $48k to $52k, 6 weeks on and 6 weeks off. Thats about £31k to £33k, but then
thats without paying tax! The skill qualifications determines the pilots ability to have a greater choice of aircraft. Having said that there is a shocking dilemna in our biz: How can you get a job with hardly any experiance, when you can't get experiance without a job!!! Unless you are fortunate enough to have the opportunity to join the military, be very wealthy, or just damn lucky, it takes along time and alot of sweat, blood and tears from adolescence to sitting at the controls of a multi-million pound
machine and getting paid for it. And when you get there, your are either to old or too scared to give it up...because your life has been consumed and focussed arriving at this point
But alot of small machines can and do make good revenue for operators and pilots alike. Because we are so diverse in our groups, it is very hard to standardize the pay we earn. Union's and other association have attempted to do this, and with some degree suceeded. But only for pilots in large companies with specific profiles. However, as one gains experiance thru their collective experiance ( pardon the pun) they usually can command a better pay and operate bigger and more sophisticated equipment...if thats what they want. When I was in the Army we received flight pay, even in training. As we put in the years we had significant increases in pay..including any promotion and time in pay grade. Compared to some of my friends who are Plank Drivers, I actually earn more. Some Helipilots have to get creative in how they earn their income.
You can work with the Police and expect £37k to £47k.
Or you can work Offshore with relatively the same flight hours in a multicrew environment for 10 years and get significantly more.
Please xcuse the spelling...it's getting late!!!!
Or go logging in Juneau, Alaska for 6 months and earn as much as $150k .......Gulf Helicopters pay their Captains $48k to $52k, 6 weeks on and 6 weeks off. Thats about £31k to £33k, but then
thats without paying tax! The skill qualifications determines the pilots ability to have a greater choice of aircraft. Having said that there is a shocking dilemna in our biz: How can you get a job with hardly any experiance, when you can't get experiance without a job!!! Unless you are fortunate enough to have the opportunity to join the military, be very wealthy, or just damn lucky, it takes along time and alot of sweat, blood and tears from adolescence to sitting at the controls of a multi-million pound
machine and getting paid for it. And when you get there, your are either to old or too scared to give it up...because your life has been consumed and focussed arriving at this point
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I think one of the reasons that the pilots here have been so quick to justify what they do reguardless of pay or conditions is that I imagine most of us have no choice about what we do.
From that first horrible morning when you wake up and realize that you want to fly your life is no longer your own, you have no choice, you don't choose to fly helicopters...they choose you and if that happens it doesn't matter how you justify it or how else you look at it their is nothing else that feels like it and you won't be happy doing anything else.
So I suggest that we bend over take it like men and get on with it because that's what we do best
From that first horrible morning when you wake up and realize that you want to fly your life is no longer your own, you have no choice, you don't choose to fly helicopters...they choose you and if that happens it doesn't matter how you justify it or how else you look at it their is nothing else that feels like it and you won't be happy doing anything else.
So I suggest that we bend over take it like men and get on with it because that's what we do best
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It has been quite a walk, going thru these posts starting from Bert's first. Thank you Bert for raising the subject.
My flying experience has been privileged. I have listened to and read about the experiences of others who went the civilian bush route, both fixed-wing and fling-wing, and I recognize it must have been much harder for them than for my route to aviation through the military.
Some posts have commented that people fly because they can't do anything else. Well, there are others like myself - high marks at university, completed the degree, worked in a professional capacity, then left the profession to join the military and became a pilot. I like to tell people that I left my profession for a life of travel, excitement, and adventure - which I got in spades!
I had never flown before, didn't know a schmick about flying, and the only predictor of possible success at it was the aircrew selection centre experience. Military flying when I joined, provided training on prop jobs, then jets, and included a variety of exciting things like low-level flying, aerobatics, and formation flying that a civilian training path did not provide. But on wings grad I was assigned to helicopters and that opened a whole new world to me and an unbelievable variety of jobs and experiences, including tactical (bush), shipborne, SAR, and instructor roles. Later in my career I came back on to fixed-wing.
While suffering in a ground job for a few years, I got my commercial heli licence and flew some civilian contracts - firefighting on one job and geological survey on another.
Since leaving the military, I have also left flying and now work for a charitable org.
In the Air Force we used to say flying beats working for a living!
Heli flying was like the sports car of the air - always hands on and quick reaction required around each unpredictable corner. As many in this forum have said, there were a lot of fun times. But there were also things to complain about and I recognized some of the drawbacks that commercial guys faced everyday, most of which we in the military didn't have to worry about, but some we did.
Fixed wing on the other hand took you to some great and exotic places but to get there, the only interesting things were some take-offs and some landings. The rest could be pretty boring.
Piled on top of the flying were some good things about the military and also the not so good.
But I can't imagine my life having been any more exciting and rewarding doing anything else, including what I had been doing in my profession before joining the military.
Any flying job has this in common with any other job - do I really want to keep doing this or would I give anything to be doing something else? Military pilots have to do that in relation to the option of civilian flying or other work. Heli pilots have to do that in relation to other flying options or other non-flying jobs.
And the pay? Some army guys would complain about the extra flying pay the pilots received. A proper response? Submariners allowance was higher than flying pay but I wouldn't trade my job for theirs. Bottom line - if you want the same pay as somebody else, go out and get that job or one with that same pay. But one thing is for sure, from those who have been there and done that, its not worth pursuing a job just because it pays more. Somehow, most of us survive in the end, regardless of the pay differences.
If we would rather keep at our current job, then we should sit back and enjoy the ride, making the most of what's good, and doing whatever we can to minimize or change the bad stuff.
When the time comes to leave it all behind, that's a different kind of challenge and it takes all you've got to keep leaving it all behind.
So enjoy it while you can. Life is shorter than you think.
My flying experience has been privileged. I have listened to and read about the experiences of others who went the civilian bush route, both fixed-wing and fling-wing, and I recognize it must have been much harder for them than for my route to aviation through the military.
Some posts have commented that people fly because they can't do anything else. Well, there are others like myself - high marks at university, completed the degree, worked in a professional capacity, then left the profession to join the military and became a pilot. I like to tell people that I left my profession for a life of travel, excitement, and adventure - which I got in spades!
I had never flown before, didn't know a schmick about flying, and the only predictor of possible success at it was the aircrew selection centre experience. Military flying when I joined, provided training on prop jobs, then jets, and included a variety of exciting things like low-level flying, aerobatics, and formation flying that a civilian training path did not provide. But on wings grad I was assigned to helicopters and that opened a whole new world to me and an unbelievable variety of jobs and experiences, including tactical (bush), shipborne, SAR, and instructor roles. Later in my career I came back on to fixed-wing.
While suffering in a ground job for a few years, I got my commercial heli licence and flew some civilian contracts - firefighting on one job and geological survey on another.
Since leaving the military, I have also left flying and now work for a charitable org.
In the Air Force we used to say flying beats working for a living!
Heli flying was like the sports car of the air - always hands on and quick reaction required around each unpredictable corner. As many in this forum have said, there were a lot of fun times. But there were also things to complain about and I recognized some of the drawbacks that commercial guys faced everyday, most of which we in the military didn't have to worry about, but some we did.
Fixed wing on the other hand took you to some great and exotic places but to get there, the only interesting things were some take-offs and some landings. The rest could be pretty boring.
Piled on top of the flying were some good things about the military and also the not so good.
But I can't imagine my life having been any more exciting and rewarding doing anything else, including what I had been doing in my profession before joining the military.
Any flying job has this in common with any other job - do I really want to keep doing this or would I give anything to be doing something else? Military pilots have to do that in relation to the option of civilian flying or other work. Heli pilots have to do that in relation to other flying options or other non-flying jobs.
And the pay? Some army guys would complain about the extra flying pay the pilots received. A proper response? Submariners allowance was higher than flying pay but I wouldn't trade my job for theirs. Bottom line - if you want the same pay as somebody else, go out and get that job or one with that same pay. But one thing is for sure, from those who have been there and done that, its not worth pursuing a job just because it pays more. Somehow, most of us survive in the end, regardless of the pay differences.
If we would rather keep at our current job, then we should sit back and enjoy the ride, making the most of what's good, and doing whatever we can to minimize or change the bad stuff.
When the time comes to leave it all behind, that's a different kind of challenge and it takes all you've got to keep leaving it all behind.
So enjoy it while you can. Life is shorter than you think.
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Employment
Just wondered if anybody out there had the lowdown-ie not crewroom gossip- on what jobs are out there. I have 2500 hrs on a variety of helicopter types and have reached that point where working outside is more than something to be whistfully talked about. I have the usual helicopter pilot committments to support - maintenance, large mortgage and a young family...so can anyone give any advice?
ATPL(H) is on the way and I am not really interested in being an airline pilot and want to remain in the South East. Any clues?
ATPL(H) is on the way and I am not really interested in being an airline pilot and want to remain in the South East. Any clues?
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It sounds like your in the forces, well no doubt you get plenty of time to read the pprune pages. Employment on the outside is not at the stage of begging for pilots. For heli work you've got on-shore, where you're going to have to either take a pay cut or try and get one of the direct employment police jobs (which are like hens teeth). Off-shore work is much better paid but again browse the threads and you'll soon get a feel for where the jobs are, or rather are not at present. On the plus side when you do get a job you'll fly alot more and do less paper work. If you're tied into the old 12 month PVR thingy then go for it, twelve months is a long time in civil aviation. Good luck!
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Helibelly
Thanks for the reply, and I kind of figured that it was difficult to get a job (even though I wished I had time to sit and read PPrune loads). As you guessed, I am a mil pilot, but the time draws near where I have to start making decisions and either sell my soul and stay in and risk becoming the guy in the corner of the crewroom, or step outside.
Outside interests me since things have changed and I want to offer my family more stability. However, I want to remain in the SouthEast and I have to earn enough to pay the maintenance to my first family (not my fault!!).
So really, what jobs are out there? Who do we approach? What tips can people offer? Any good steers for someone with 2000hrs+, ATPL(H) on the way and enthusiasm?
I know it's scary, but it's sometimes too easy just to stay in and take the money and accept that spending increasing amounts of time away are a feature of life. I dearly love what I do, I have to be pragmatic.
So, anyone offer any help/guidance out there?
Thanks for the reply, and I kind of figured that it was difficult to get a job (even though I wished I had time to sit and read PPrune loads). As you guessed, I am a mil pilot, but the time draws near where I have to start making decisions and either sell my soul and stay in and risk becoming the guy in the corner of the crewroom, or step outside.
Outside interests me since things have changed and I want to offer my family more stability. However, I want to remain in the SouthEast and I have to earn enough to pay the maintenance to my first family (not my fault!!).
So really, what jobs are out there? Who do we approach? What tips can people offer? Any good steers for someone with 2000hrs+, ATPL(H) on the way and enthusiasm?
I know it's scary, but it's sometimes too easy just to stay in and take the money and accept that spending increasing amounts of time away are a feature of life. I dearly love what I do, I have to be pragmatic.
So, anyone offer any help/guidance out there?
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Network, network and then network some more. You must know someone who is working on the outside. The onshore market has a small turnover but there are jobs that are never advertised. The money is not great but with a pension you can just about break even. The flying I have found to be challenging and varied, and flying is all you have to do.
The offshore market - just read this forum for an idea of opportunities.
The grass is greener (if you don't mind living on contracts) but is just as hard to cut!
The offshore market - just read this forum for an idea of opportunities.
The grass is greener (if you don't mind living on contracts) but is just as hard to cut!
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Virgin, Green, Novice - Fool ?
Blimey, wish I'd found this forum months ago.
Need some advice guys and gals. I'm 39 and want to become a CPL(H). I have a class 1 medical booked for next week and hope to start flying in Sept (I have zero hours).
The '39' and the 'zero hours' are a bit of a git obviously, and the medical - well, I'll pass or I won't. The single advantage I do have is access to enough cash to get me through all the training to CPL(H).
I've read with interest the arguments for/against pilot shortages and frankly, my biggest concern is blowing 50 grand and ending up with no heli job (I can't live life as a Project Manager any more)
My general question is should I even bother to start training ? I'd appreciate some 'informed' comment rather than the blurb from flying schools.
(Also, anyone got any tips re. flying schools ? Currently looking at one based at Liverpool Airport).
Need some advice guys and gals. I'm 39 and want to become a CPL(H). I have a class 1 medical booked for next week and hope to start flying in Sept (I have zero hours).
The '39' and the 'zero hours' are a bit of a git obviously, and the medical - well, I'll pass or I won't. The single advantage I do have is access to enough cash to get me through all the training to CPL(H).
I've read with interest the arguments for/against pilot shortages and frankly, my biggest concern is blowing 50 grand and ending up with no heli job (I can't live life as a Project Manager any more)
My general question is should I even bother to start training ? I'd appreciate some 'informed' comment rather than the blurb from flying schools.
(Also, anyone got any tips re. flying schools ? Currently looking at one based at Liverpool Airport).
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This IS a serious suggestion
If your lifestyle/situation allows, go to Helicopter Adventures in FL, USA - your $50k will get you a LOT more training and fair-to-good opportunity to work after your training is complete.
The exchange rate, difference in fuel & aircraft cost, and shortened training duration will mean your travel costs and housing are essentially "free". If you do the JAA/FAA combo, you will have a FAA CFI(I) and a JAA CPL.
Of course, if you are unable to make such a drastic commitment...
...never mind!
(ps - this advice is from a 43-year-old 300-hour CFII)
The exchange rate, difference in fuel & aircraft cost, and shortened training duration will mean your travel costs and housing are essentially "free". If you do the JAA/FAA combo, you will have a FAA CFI(I) and a JAA CPL.
Of course, if you are unable to make such a drastic commitment...
...never mind!
(ps - this advice is from a 43-year-old 300-hour CFII)
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Thanks FlingWing. Errrrm, I'll have a look into it. Originally I was looking at doing it in NZ but then found out all the red tape re. license validity etc, which I still don't understand.
BTW, that\'s £50k not $50k. I\'ve done a lot of saving to get me out of this godawful job in the UK !!!!
One other general question - does flying involve a lot of mental arithmetic - fuel vs distance vs headwind - all that kind of thing, only I\'m a bit thick at Maths ....................... oo-er.
BTW, that\'s £50k not $50k. I\'ve done a lot of saving to get me out of this godawful job in the UK !!!!
One other general question - does flying involve a lot of mental arithmetic - fuel vs distance vs headwind - all that kind of thing, only I\'m a bit thick at Maths ....................... oo-er.
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Banjo, there's at least an even chance that when you start having to learn the maths, you'll find it quite a lot easier than you think - simply because now you can see what it's for. That's an enviable position to be in.
'Sir, what use is algebra', I keep getting asked at the school I teach in. I usually reply 'you'd be amazed'. Which is shorthand for 'b*ggered if I know'. It is difficult to think of a practical use for a lot of it. However, you'll only have to learn the stuff that does have a practical use.
'Sir, what use is algebra', I keep getting asked at the school I teach in. I usually reply 'you'd be amazed'. Which is shorthand for 'b*ggered if I know'. It is difficult to think of a practical use for a lot of it. However, you'll only have to learn the stuff that does have a practical use.
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Why don't you go to a reputable training organisation (and there are several near you) and take an initial flight? Then talk through the syllabus with them. Because - yes you do need mental arithmetic. You need to be able to do weight & balance calculations on the move, you need to know the maths of navigation and the science/maths of weather. And the physics of flight, and airframes, and, and, and.
Wish you lots of fun, some frights and some of those obstacles in life which make you wonder "Can I really do this ?"
Like - after about 7 hrs of training and you still can't hold a hover....and your fist is getting tighter on the cyclic...I've seen people weep. And then at about 10 hrs, they smile and wonder what all the fuss was about. They're holding it perfectly still with just finger and thumb.
All of which is nothing compared to your first auto.
Wish you lots of fun, some frights and some of those obstacles in life which make you wonder "Can I really do this ?"
Like - after about 7 hrs of training and you still can't hold a hover....and your fist is getting tighter on the cyclic...I've seen people weep. And then at about 10 hrs, they smile and wonder what all the fuss was about. They're holding it perfectly still with just finger and thumb.
All of which is nothing compared to your first auto.
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Ta HeadsetHair (great name)
Errrm, I have flown a copter twice so far, and a jet provost (aerobatics) and a glider. On all occasions I seem to have at least better than 'some' aptitude.
Sadly, I've always been a bit slow at the old Maths - I can do it but perhaps not quickly enough. Need to practise.
The Liverpool School appeared to be the best in the area - I did check 3 or 4 out. I tried Cabair a few years ago and they said quote :
'you're too old and it'll cost too much. You can't compete with ex-military for jobs'. Naturally I left, refreshed and not even slightly subdued ..............................
Anyhow, better not slate Cabair though at the time, I did indeed think they were doing me a favour.
Thanks to Hilico too - all good advice. Luckily the dynamics and science of flight interests me greatly so I\'ve got more than a laymans knowledge.
I really just wondered how \'involved\' the maths actually got when you\'re in the air - stuff like air density calculations and stuff got me a bit worried.
Right now, 300+ hours looks like a monster hill ...............
Errrm, I have flown a copter twice so far, and a jet provost (aerobatics) and a glider. On all occasions I seem to have at least better than 'some' aptitude.
Sadly, I've always been a bit slow at the old Maths - I can do it but perhaps not quickly enough. Need to practise.
The Liverpool School appeared to be the best in the area - I did check 3 or 4 out. I tried Cabair a few years ago and they said quote :
'you're too old and it'll cost too much. You can't compete with ex-military for jobs'. Naturally I left, refreshed and not even slightly subdued ..............................
Anyhow, better not slate Cabair though at the time, I did indeed think they were doing me a favour.
Thanks to Hilico too - all good advice. Luckily the dynamics and science of flight interests me greatly so I\'ve got more than a laymans knowledge.
I really just wondered how \'involved\' the maths actually got when you\'re in the air - stuff like air density calculations and stuff got me a bit worried.
Right now, 300+ hours looks like a monster hill ...............
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Banjo,
Did you try the schools at Blackpool i think the Liverpool school also has a site a Blackpool, You've also got Barton Manchester with Bill Bailey who's a very experienced pilot.
Did you try the schools at Blackpool i think the Liverpool school also has a site a Blackpool, You've also got Barton Manchester with Bill Bailey who's a very experienced pilot.
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Thanks Cyclic, yep, I tried Blackpool (Liverpool is an offshoot of that organisation), also Barton, and one in Leeds.
Leeds was a bit too far, and Barton only does up to PPL(H). Liverpool seemed to be the friendliest, best selection of machines too and no more hideous than any others in terms of price.
I'm told that an 'advantage' of Liverpool is that the school is located at the John Lennon airport, and therefore the flight protocols are much stricter 'cos of all the commercial traffic going in and out. Seems to make sense.
I'd probably consider the States too but I still need to support myself through training somehow. Anyone got any experience or advice re. going abroad ?
BTW thanks everyone, this is really helpful stuff. After several enquiries, one begins to disbelieve how genuine the flight schools are - still, they have to make money.
Leeds was a bit too far, and Barton only does up to PPL(H). Liverpool seemed to be the friendliest, best selection of machines too and no more hideous than any others in terms of price.
I'm told that an 'advantage' of Liverpool is that the school is located at the John Lennon airport, and therefore the flight protocols are much stricter 'cos of all the commercial traffic going in and out. Seems to make sense.
I'd probably consider the States too but I still need to support myself through training somehow. Anyone got any experience or advice re. going abroad ?
BTW thanks everyone, this is really helpful stuff. After several enquiries, one begins to disbelieve how genuine the flight schools are - still, they have to make money.