Tech Logs frustration
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Tech Logs frustration !!!!!!!!AH! AH!!!!!!!!!!
I have been maintaining aircraft document's now for nearly a year and can't believe the amount different variations of tech log sector record pages for a pilot to fill out after a flight.
It seems that every company has a completly different system and a different attitude towards how they should be sucsessfully completed.
I feel all this does is create confusion and frustation beetween pilot & company and also beetween company and maintence divisions.
Surely the answer would be for the CAA to develope one common flight log with the same system being used by every Helicopter operator.
Not to mention the safty aspect of aircraft overflying there checks & out of phases because the pilot is not filling them out properly or should I say working to different numbers to me.
is it running on datcon time or is it running on engine time, this pilot fills his in differently to his, there company's flight sector pages are different to ours, the maintenence division dont understand what's what
ITS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE
does anybody else suffer the same frustration or am I all on my own
It seems that every company has a completly different system and a different attitude towards how they should be sucsessfully completed.
I feel all this does is create confusion and frustation beetween pilot & company and also beetween company and maintence divisions.
Surely the answer would be for the CAA to develope one common flight log with the same system being used by every Helicopter operator.
Not to mention the safty aspect of aircraft overflying there checks & out of phases because the pilot is not filling them out properly or should I say working to different numbers to me.
is it running on datcon time or is it running on engine time, this pilot fills his in differently to his, there company's flight sector pages are different to ours, the maintenence division dont understand what's what
ITS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE
does anybody else suffer the same frustration or am I all on my own
Last edited by goose boy; 19th May 2005 at 11:22.
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1. They're all different.
2. They don't need to be.
3. If they were all the same, I could have done OK out of selling a database product with a single common window that looked just like the tech log form. As it was I would have had to make a different window for each AOC holder.
4. Even better would have been something you could plug into the heli at the end of the day to download the sector info. Add the name of the Commander and Bob's your uncle.
5. But as a retrofit, such a system would have certification issues and thus be quite hilariously expensive.
6. Plus the CAA would insist there had to be paper records.
7. I got so frustrated, I started numbering all my sentences.
8. Err....
9. That's it.
2. They don't need to be.
3. If they were all the same, I could have done OK out of selling a database product with a single common window that looked just like the tech log form. As it was I would have had to make a different window for each AOC holder.
4. Even better would have been something you could plug into the heli at the end of the day to download the sector info. Add the name of the Commander and Bob's your uncle.
5. But as a retrofit, such a system would have certification issues and thus be quite hilariously expensive.
6. Plus the CAA would insist there had to be paper records.
7. I got so frustrated, I started numbering all my sentences.
8. Err....
9. That's it.
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(HELICO) Your idea sounds great!
I would defenetly buy it (at a resonable price). If saves time confusion and pilot work load then it would have to be regarded as value for money whatever the cost
Could be the future!
How would you go about aproacing the CAA to sugest one common tech log
( u want me 2 land where) : I totaly agree that life is to short for paperwork. But however it's a job that needs to be done and pilots & pasangers lifes could get a lot shorter if not done correctly
I would defenetly buy it (at a resonable price). If saves time confusion and pilot work load then it would have to be regarded as value for money whatever the cost
Could be the future!
How would you go about aproacing the CAA to sugest one common tech log
( u want me 2 land where) : I totaly agree that life is to short for paperwork. But however it's a job that needs to be done and pilots & pasangers lifes could get a lot shorter if not done correctly
Last edited by goose boy; 19th May 2005 at 09:45.
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No Goose boy, you are not alone, I too have to suffer the annoyance of a multitude of different tech logs (at last count 8 variations covering 18 aircraft types) and running aircraft on 3 different systems, so some form of standardisation would be a god send.
However, even if this were to occur, it still wouldn't solve the biggest problem of some pilots inability to count, add up or even bother to fill it in! I reckon all pilots should undergo a simple maths test when they're training, say every week, just to be on the safe side. If they just took 30 seconds to concentrate on what they're doing, my job would be a whole lot easier! If you dont start with the correct hours, then your maintenance trackings gona be a waste of time guys and girls!
As for something you could plug into the aircraft, it would never work, the pilot or engineer would either forget to do it, have finger trouble in the process, or find some way of messing it up! Some aircraft record flight times and cycles on the DECU, but even copying numbers from a screen to a piece of paper seems to be difficult for some pilots too.
I feel this will fall on deaf ears, but as I'm training to be a pilot myself, I just hope I can follow my own advice!
However, even if this were to occur, it still wouldn't solve the biggest problem of some pilots inability to count, add up or even bother to fill it in! I reckon all pilots should undergo a simple maths test when they're training, say every week, just to be on the safe side. If they just took 30 seconds to concentrate on what they're doing, my job would be a whole lot easier! If you dont start with the correct hours, then your maintenance trackings gona be a waste of time guys and girls!
As for something you could plug into the aircraft, it would never work, the pilot or engineer would either forget to do it, have finger trouble in the process, or find some way of messing it up! Some aircraft record flight times and cycles on the DECU, but even copying numbers from a screen to a piece of paper seems to be difficult for some pilots too.
I feel this will fall on deaf ears, but as I'm training to be a pilot myself, I just hope I can follow my own advice!
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Hi Subarup, I to' am in the middle of training and also feel that if i can practice what I preach it might in some small way make me a better pilot.
Have you got any sugestions that you think might work
Have you got any sugestions that you think might work
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Ah yes, I remember now, there was some system the fleet had which was recording information for a separate system, and I was looking at a way of hacking into it to get times for take-off and landing. The data we got mostly seemed to lie within the first week of the year 2000. This was the point at which we realised the engineers were taking the batteries out at weekends.
While we're at it, CAP371 contains the most arbitrary parameters; I mean, x days flying out of y days, q hours flown within t days, n days consecutive flying within j days, and don't get me started on the mandatory days off and the definition of standby. I remain convinced there are a very small number of simple algorithms that would vastly simplify the entire task and ensure pilots got enough rest (which would be a nice change for them, it sounds like). It's just designing those algorithms and then convincing the CAA.
Right! Who's up for that then?!?!
While we're at it, CAP371 contains the most arbitrary parameters; I mean, x days flying out of y days, q hours flown within t days, n days consecutive flying within j days, and don't get me started on the mandatory days off and the definition of standby. I remain convinced there are a very small number of simple algorithms that would vastly simplify the entire task and ensure pilots got enough rest (which would be a nice change for them, it sounds like). It's just designing those algorithms and then convincing the CAA.
Right! Who's up for that then?!?!
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Over the years quite a few mustering companies in Australia found a solution to this very problem and it works amazingly well.
Don't write any hours down on the MR or hide the MR,s from the pilots.
Quite simple,yes??????
A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse.
Don't write any hours down on the MR or hide the MR,s from the pilots.
Quite simple,yes??????
A nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse.
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Hi helico
I have been toying with the idea of redesigning the whole tech log system for some time now & I could really do with the help of somebody with as much knowlege as you
would you be interested
I have been toying with the idea of redesigning the whole tech log system for some time now & I could really do with the help of somebody with as much knowlege as you
would you be interested
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It isn't just techlogs. The fairly recent requirement in the UK that EACH individual operator has to write his own maintenence programme for each type of hele was a similar nonsense. This was based upon the entirely false assumption that each operator knows best how his aircraft should be maintained.
I made a half-hearted attempt to suggest standard programmes techlogs and similar, perhaps published by somone like the BHAB. I think they, as with the CAA, ran away from the idea because of potential liability if there was a mistake or something significant was missed.
You could of course be cynical and suggest that if we weren't all forced to produce our own separate documents, the CAA would not have to visit us to discuss them every 6 months.
Overall, perhaps a more important concern than all this wasted effort is that it may well produce a less safe result. If you operate in an enviroment of pilots moving between operators, it must increase the chances of mistakes.
It is really the same as the over-regulation of certification. In the light aircraft market development has been pretty stagnant. The best example is piston engines. The AVGAS engine would be more at home in a pre-war tractor than an aircraft. The reason for this lack of development is that the prohibitive cost of certification of a new engine precludes new ones from coming on the market. A glorious exception is the diesel, which may succeed for special reasons. In the Permit world there have been all sorts of developments using new technology, that make them appear more efficient and (possibly) safer. It is the paradox of regulation, when it is overly prescriptive
I made a half-hearted attempt to suggest standard programmes techlogs and similar, perhaps published by somone like the BHAB. I think they, as with the CAA, ran away from the idea because of potential liability if there was a mistake or something significant was missed.
You could of course be cynical and suggest that if we weren't all forced to produce our own separate documents, the CAA would not have to visit us to discuss them every 6 months.
Overall, perhaps a more important concern than all this wasted effort is that it may well produce a less safe result. If you operate in an enviroment of pilots moving between operators, it must increase the chances of mistakes.
It is really the same as the over-regulation of certification. In the light aircraft market development has been pretty stagnant. The best example is piston engines. The AVGAS engine would be more at home in a pre-war tractor than an aircraft. The reason for this lack of development is that the prohibitive cost of certification of a new engine precludes new ones from coming on the market. A glorious exception is the diesel, which may succeed for special reasons. In the Permit world there have been all sorts of developments using new technology, that make them appear more efficient and (possibly) safer. It is the paradox of regulation, when it is overly prescriptive
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Please don't ask the CAA to design a Tech log page! I've seen one offering from them prior to JAR coming in which involved one A4 page PER SECTOR!
Verily when the weight of the paperwork is equal to the MAUW of the aircraft it shall be deemed fit to fly.
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And come to that, don't ask the JAA (or EASA) to design a pilot's log book. Have you seen the size of the boxes for the origin and destination? Just enough space for the four-character designator. With locations like 'Dave's paddock nr Fulchester' and the typical shaking hand of your average heli driver, you can just tell that the feasibility study (they did do a feasibility study, didn't they?) did not include all the potential users...
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Tech Log piles
I don't if the information will help you. We currently develop a tech log system with a pen scanner which got a coordinate system programmed. So when having a paper copy the scanner reads the data and with one click transfers the data into the appropriate boxes, columns, etc... We are still in the testing phase though but PM me. Then I might be able to tell you some more
