How much do helicopter pilots earn?
Joined: Nov 2003
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Expected Salary?!!
One thing I really hate is when an employer asks for 'Expected Salary' in a job ad.
I would love to know what this is all about...to me it seems almost unethical; a cheep way to put unnessary pressure on the applicant; a psychological game of 'invisible cat' and mouse.
I mean, how do employers use this information?
If I quote way under the ball park, am I then subjugating myself? - damaging my chances of getting the job. - "Hey, Bob! This guy obviously knows nothing about the industry, or is a real cheepscape. Let's not hire him!"
Or am I increasing my chances of employment? - "Hey Bob, look here. This guy will work for nothing! Let's have him!"
What about if I put a figure that is higher than all the rest? What about leaving that line blank? What if I have absolutely no clue what is about the right figure...e.g. I just want the job and have trust in the employer not to skin me!
So all you bigwigs that do the hiring, I'd be grateful if you would put me in the picture here. What is this line for and what do I put?
cl12pv2s
I would love to know what this is all about...to me it seems almost unethical; a cheep way to put unnessary pressure on the applicant; a psychological game of 'invisible cat' and mouse.
I mean, how do employers use this information?
If I quote way under the ball park, am I then subjugating myself? - damaging my chances of getting the job. - "Hey, Bob! This guy obviously knows nothing about the industry, or is a real cheepscape. Let's not hire him!"
Or am I increasing my chances of employment? - "Hey Bob, look here. This guy will work for nothing! Let's have him!"
What about if I put a figure that is higher than all the rest? What about leaving that line blank? What if I have absolutely no clue what is about the right figure...e.g. I just want the job and have trust in the employer not to skin me!
So all you bigwigs that do the hiring, I'd be grateful if you would put me in the picture here. What is this line for and what do I put?
cl12pv2s
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,365
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From: UK
I think you guys are talking about rather different things - salaries implies employee, whereas KissMySquirrel, you seem to be talking freelance and per flight hour. It also makes a big difference which country you are in too, of course.
As I mentioned in another recent thread, the norm for UK commercial flying is (in my experience) more based upon time than flying time - day rates and half day rates. This is generally a much better and reasonable bet for the pilot too - otherwise you spend 10 hours working (duty time) for an hours flight time pay.
As I mentioned in another recent thread, the norm for UK commercial flying is (in my experience) more based upon time than flying time - day rates and half day rates. This is generally a much better and reasonable bet for the pilot too - otherwise you spend 10 hours working (duty time) for an hours flight time pay.
Joined: Nov 2003
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BUT WHY IS THIS ASKED BY EMPLOYER
Thanks for the replies folks....
However, I was more interested in asking the question 'WHY IS THIS ASKED' rather than asking for actual salaries for a job I'm going for.
What is the advantage to the employer to know what an applicant expects?
Cheers,
cl12pv2s
However, I was more interested in asking the question 'WHY IS THIS ASKED' rather than asking for actual salaries for a job I'm going for.
What is the advantage to the employer to know what an applicant expects?
Cheers,
cl12pv2s
Hovering AND talking
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,711
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From: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
I don't about the aviation world in this respect but, for my day job of accountancy, this question is sometimes asked as it gives an indication of that person's experience. A chartered accountant could earn anything from £25k per annum to £250k and, as they don't have a log-book, proving their experience and knowledge can be tricky. Therefore, if you know what their salary expectation is and/or current salary it gives an indication of where their skills and abilities lie.
However, this fails when moving to new areas of the country or even different countries since standards of living can vary so much. For example, there can easily be a £10k per annum differential between some areas in the UK for the same job.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Whirlygig
However, this fails when moving to new areas of the country or even different countries since standards of living can vary so much. For example, there can easily be a £10k per annum differential between some areas in the UK for the same job.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Whirlygig
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 542
Likes: 5
From: Europe
cl12 etc
As an employer, we will always ask for expected salary at some point, either in a job advert or on interview. The rationale is pretty obvious - business is competitive and one always wants to get the best value from employees, and indeed has to in order to remain in business.
BUT this does not mean one simply takes the cheapest expected salary - rarely, in fact, is this the case. One is looking to see that someone's expectations are realistic for their experience/competence etc - and most are, to be honest. Some applicants do seem to overvalue themselves or indeed maybe correctly value themselves, but the job may not require (and hence justify the costs of) all the skills they possess.
It is also important that people are reasonably content on whatever salary they are on and I never want to push applicants to accept less than they are happy with - they'll only leave after an irritatingly short period.
As an employer of course you want those who are very competent, motivated and happy for the least money - and that is determined by simple market forces I'm afraid!
My advice - state what you genuinely will be happy to earn, which will be pretty much market value, inevitably moderately influenced by how much you want the job.
As an employer, we will always ask for expected salary at some point, either in a job advert or on interview. The rationale is pretty obvious - business is competitive and one always wants to get the best value from employees, and indeed has to in order to remain in business.
BUT this does not mean one simply takes the cheapest expected salary - rarely, in fact, is this the case. One is looking to see that someone's expectations are realistic for their experience/competence etc - and most are, to be honest. Some applicants do seem to overvalue themselves or indeed maybe correctly value themselves, but the job may not require (and hence justify the costs of) all the skills they possess.
It is also important that people are reasonably content on whatever salary they are on and I never want to push applicants to accept less than they are happy with - they'll only leave after an irritatingly short period.
As an employer of course you want those who are very competent, motivated and happy for the least money - and that is determined by simple market forces I'm afraid!
My advice - state what you genuinely will be happy to earn, which will be pretty much market value, inevitably moderately influenced by how much you want the job.
Last edited by rotorspeed; 12th January 2005 at 12:29.
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Just over there....no there.
I can understand what he's getting at, it's almost like the question I was asked at the AAC interview and we've probably all had "why do you want to fly?"
From my point of view it was a daft and almost unanswerable question to state elequently and reasonably, it was just that I had to do it because my mind (and soul)said "do it or just go and jump off a cliff because your life is otherwise worthless!" ...BUT...I had to tell the truth. It was because I would look so cool in a flying suit and sunglasses and pull birds, plus I wouldn't have to dig trenches on exercise eitherand get dirty! I was wrong on that count though, I dug more trenches in the AAC as aircrew than when I was in the RM
They must have believed me 'cos I got in!!
It's still tough to find out exactly what job pays what salary or rate anywhere, people don't tend to volunteer that kind of info easily the same as with job openings..very tight lipped.
From my point of view it was a daft and almost unanswerable question to state elequently and reasonably, it was just that I had to do it because my mind (and soul)said "do it or just go and jump off a cliff because your life is otherwise worthless!" ...BUT...I had to tell the truth. It was because I would look so cool in a flying suit and sunglasses and pull birds, plus I wouldn't have to dig trenches on exercise eitherand get dirty! I was wrong on that count though, I dug more trenches in the AAC as aircrew than when I was in the RM
They must have believed me 'cos I got in!!
It's still tough to find out exactly what job pays what salary or rate anywhere, people don't tend to volunteer that kind of info easily the same as with job openings..very tight lipped.
Joined: Sep 1999
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From: EGPT/ESVS
Live mid-market rates as of 2005.02.07 11:12:38 GMT.
350.00 AUD
Australia Dollars = 144.250 GBP
United Kingdom Pounds
Live mid-market rates as of 2005.02.07 11:13:38 GMT.
550.00 AUD
Australia Dollars = 226.621 GBP
United Kingdom Pounds
for info...
350.00 AUD
Australia Dollars = 144.250 GBP
United Kingdom Pounds
Live mid-market rates as of 2005.02.07 11:13:38 GMT.
550.00 AUD
Australia Dollars = 226.621 GBP
United Kingdom Pounds
for info...
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 48
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From: NZ
Floppy Link, please don't confuse the thread with exchange rates, as a expat they only affect your saving . Think of it as a % of turn over, and this is only an example as I have no idea of charge out rates in Oz or the UK. $A at 1000 per hour x 5 = about 10% and the same for the UK in pound's.
As my old (very old grandfather, as he is now dead) use to tell me
A day's pay for a pair of boot's
A week's pay for a suit
And a year's pay for a new car , not that much has changed
As my old (very old grandfather, as he is now dead) use to tell me
A day's pay for a pair of boot's
A week's pay for a suit
And a year's pay for a new car , not that much has changed
The Veloceraptor of Lounge Lizards
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 339
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From: From here the view is lovely
Callie Dog;
We pay £300 for VFR twin pilots and £350 for IFR as a day rate plus on the job expenses. Your travel to and from is up to you but you can claim your mileage against tax.
I think we just starve our instructors.
We pay £300 for VFR twin pilots and £350 for IFR as a day rate plus on the job expenses. Your travel to and from is up to you but you can claim your mileage against tax.
I think we just starve our instructors.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 186
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From: South Wales
Well, I'm a fully qualified electrician as well as a pilot. I can imagine the interview,
The Boss. "Mr Lightning, as stated the job position offers a package of $100,000, however, coupled with your previous helicopter experience, we know you'll except a lot less money than others in the industry, so were gonna offer you $20,000"
LB. "Sounds like a fair deal to me"
The Boss. "Welcome aboard son"
Ah, what a wonderful world we live in
The Boss. "Mr Lightning, as stated the job position offers a package of $100,000, however, coupled with your previous helicopter experience, we know you'll except a lot less money than others in the industry, so were gonna offer you $20,000"
LB. "Sounds like a fair deal to me"
The Boss. "Welcome aboard son"
Ah, what a wonderful world we live in
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 331
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From: AUS
Vice like........
I think there is a big difference between the "market value" of a pilots wages (determined by supply and demand) and the actual value of pilot wages based on required skills, level of responsibility and cost and time of training.
But of course I'm assuming your post was a wind up !!!
I think there is a big difference between the "market value" of a pilots wages (determined by supply and demand) and the actual value of pilot wages based on required skills, level of responsibility and cost and time of training.
But of course I'm assuming your post was a wind up !!!
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 57
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From: Far Far Away
So the problem we have is that we are willing to work for less money to secure one of the very few jobs out there, either to justify the money we've spent already to get our licence, or because flying helicopters is all you've wanted to do since childhood.
I think the general feeling most get from employers is that by giving you the job they are doing you a huge favour, and should pay you less because you enjoy your job. They seem to forget how much cash and determination it took to get to where you are.
The only way it will change is if everyone agrees not to work for silly ammounts of money. But how likely is that?
In what other industry would you spend £50 - 60,000 of your own cash, possibly re-mortgage your house, to get your qualifications for a dissproportionate salary at the end of it? Is there any way it can change, or are we all just mugs???
I think the general feeling most get from employers is that by giving you the job they are doing you a huge favour, and should pay you less because you enjoy your job. They seem to forget how much cash and determination it took to get to where you are.
The only way it will change is if everyone agrees not to work for silly ammounts of money. But how likely is that?
In what other industry would you spend £50 - 60,000 of your own cash, possibly re-mortgage your house, to get your qualifications for a dissproportionate salary at the end of it? Is there any way it can change, or are we all just mugs???
Gatvol
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,197
Likes: 1
From: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
OK gang lets get into value for money. Most of the Hookers in Vegas make more than us Tour Pilots. Cancel that. ALL the hookers in Vegas make more than us Tour Pilots. Are we in the wrong business?? OR are we both doing what we like to do........
Hey, I accept tips, maybe Im just a hooker in a Pilots uniform.......
Hey, I accept tips, maybe Im just a hooker in a Pilots uniform.......
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 112
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From: North of Eq
Mr. Selfish,
Did I understand you correctly? You think that wages will rise dramatically when there is a shortage of experienced helicopter pilots?
I don’t think so. A shortage will drive wages down. The employer will say to the low time pilot you are less experienced than the last pilot I had (and can’t replace with a pilot of similar experience) and so I will pay you less…and this will drive wages down.
As an employer I don’t want high priced experienced pilots because they cost me a lot of money and I can find enough work of the type that needs their experience. I want pilots with a sound training and an adequate level of intelligence to make appropriate decisions, to comply with SOPs and listen to the advice and instructions of the company’s supervising / managing pilots that I pay more to because they have the experience and qualifications to hold the posts I am required to fill by the regulators.
Did I understand you correctly? You think that wages will rise dramatically when there is a shortage of experienced helicopter pilots?
I don’t think so. A shortage will drive wages down. The employer will say to the low time pilot you are less experienced than the last pilot I had (and can’t replace with a pilot of similar experience) and so I will pay you less…and this will drive wages down.
As an employer I don’t want high priced experienced pilots because they cost me a lot of money and I can find enough work of the type that needs their experience. I want pilots with a sound training and an adequate level of intelligence to make appropriate decisions, to comply with SOPs and listen to the advice and instructions of the company’s supervising / managing pilots that I pay more to because they have the experience and qualifications to hold the posts I am required to fill by the regulators.