R22 Corner
Iconoclast
Join Date: Sep 2000
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I didn't know what to put in the title block.
To: t'aint natural
Start a new thread. The members of this forum might find it interesting.
Start a new thread. The members of this forum might find it interesting.
Iconoclast
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Bearing preload
I can’t speak directly to the Robinson transmission but in other gearboxes bearing preload is normally controlled by the use of shims. The shims control the amount of compression placed on the bearing inner race so that the balls or tapered rollers have controlled compression between the inner and outer races. In other cases the preload can be applied by the torquing of bolts against a flat plate which compresses the inner race with the outer race being captive. The effect is the same.
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I was told of a rumor on Friday that casa is going to lift the AD on the blades early next week due to pressure from Robinson. However they are going to reduce the life on mustering/ag machines' blades to somewhere between 1000-1500 hours. Anyone heared similar?
Join Date: Jul 2000
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helimatt: I'd heard that the eddy current inspection was going to be removed.
The idea of lowering the life of the blades does not sound like a cure for the current problem, in fact I can see reasons for "applicable" operators to ignore such a directive because the existing life of the blades appears to be adequate. (That is assuming that all failed R22 blades had exceeded 2200 hrs).
Once again, a few miserable bastards have, out of greed and perhaps ignorance, stuffed it up for the rest!
The idea of lowering the life of the blades does not sound like a cure for the current problem, in fact I can see reasons for "applicable" operators to ignore such a directive because the existing life of the blades appears to be adequate. (That is assuming that all failed R22 blades had exceeded 2200 hrs).
Once again, a few miserable bastards have, out of greed and perhaps ignorance, stuffed it up for the rest!
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G'day All,
Watch out, I feel a Sunday afternoon rant coming on!! Sorry, Sprocket, it's not ignorance, it's the other one GREED and the unwillingness or inability (sad if it's inability) of CASA to tackle this in any sort of serious manner.
Maybe it's time to invite the insurance industry to get involved in all this? Everyone makes a big deal of the requirement to have completed a "Robinson safety Course" before you fly a 22 or 44 commercially and they give you a discount on the insurance for turning up for 2 or 3 days, paying lip service to the (very knowlegable and enthusiastic) presenters and retiring to the bar to brag about the things they do to and with their "flying motorbikes". I did not go the mustering road personally, but have done the RSC thing and have some good friends who did start out chasing moo's and they assure me that the same people who sit around you nodding and tut-tutting, just revert to the same old same old as soon as they go back to a CASA free zone.
I shouldn't probably shed too many tears when a mustering machine bites the dust, but all too often the poor (low time) bunny in the driver's seat has absolutely no idea how many actual hours the machine has done. After a while though, they soon realise what the boss is asking them to do and they either move on (a future professional pilot?) or just continue to ignore it (the cowboys?). The potential problem is that ex mustering machines then are sold into the "private owner" market and put on line with the smaller flying schools around the traps without the people (instructors and students) having any idea of the potential "true" hours on the machine. It's amazing what some new seat cushions and a lick of paint will do for a machine. I've flown some real s**tbox B206's that looked straight out of the factory, but at least the M/R said 18,000hrs to convince me that I wasn't imagining the rattles, etc.
End of rant!!
Thanks guys, there was a danger that I'd really get started there.
MPT
Watch out, I feel a Sunday afternoon rant coming on!! Sorry, Sprocket, it's not ignorance, it's the other one GREED and the unwillingness or inability (sad if it's inability) of CASA to tackle this in any sort of serious manner.
Maybe it's time to invite the insurance industry to get involved in all this? Everyone makes a big deal of the requirement to have completed a "Robinson safety Course" before you fly a 22 or 44 commercially and they give you a discount on the insurance for turning up for 2 or 3 days, paying lip service to the (very knowlegable and enthusiastic) presenters and retiring to the bar to brag about the things they do to and with their "flying motorbikes". I did not go the mustering road personally, but have done the RSC thing and have some good friends who did start out chasing moo's and they assure me that the same people who sit around you nodding and tut-tutting, just revert to the same old same old as soon as they go back to a CASA free zone.
I shouldn't probably shed too many tears when a mustering machine bites the dust, but all too often the poor (low time) bunny in the driver's seat has absolutely no idea how many actual hours the machine has done. After a while though, they soon realise what the boss is asking them to do and they either move on (a future professional pilot?) or just continue to ignore it (the cowboys?). The potential problem is that ex mustering machines then are sold into the "private owner" market and put on line with the smaller flying schools around the traps without the people (instructors and students) having any idea of the potential "true" hours on the machine. It's amazing what some new seat cushions and a lick of paint will do for a machine. I've flown some real s**tbox B206's that looked straight out of the factory, but at least the M/R said 18,000hrs to convince me that I wasn't imagining the rattles, etc.
End of rant!!
Thanks guys, there was a danger that I'd really get started there.
MPT
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The problem with incidents like this is that it tars the whole mustering industry with the same brush. The truth is that most mustering operations (from what iv'e seen anyway) are proffesional, well run outfits. It's as you said sprocket, it's a few spoiling it for everyone else. What to do, is the question begging to be answered.
Reducing blade lives will only make it hard for the honest operators, because the bad ones will continue to under record hours. Sure, it might prevent another blade from flying off, but it is only a bandaid. The problem has to be solved at its root cause.
The dodgy operators have to be weeded out of the industry. I dont want them here and I'm sure you guys dont, but until someone is made an example of (and pulling their AOC doesnt cut it), the lives of good people will continue to be lost and the entire helicopter industry will continue to be tainted.
Reducing blade lives will only make it hard for the honest operators, because the bad ones will continue to under record hours. Sure, it might prevent another blade from flying off, but it is only a bandaid. The problem has to be solved at its root cause.
The dodgy operators have to be weeded out of the industry. I dont want them here and I'm sure you guys dont, but until someone is made an example of (and pulling their AOC doesnt cut it), the lives of good people will continue to be lost and the entire helicopter industry will continue to be tainted.
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Sorry helimatt,
I guess it sounded like I was talking about the entire mustering industry. As you said, this sort of thing reflects badly on the whole segment of the industry, whereas it is a minority that actually cause it. If the "bad eggs" could be weeded out, it might make it easier for the rest of the mustering companies to actually make some reasonable $$ out of it, thereby reducing the temptation to underrecord in the first place. Well, we would hope so anyway.
Cheers,
MPT
I guess it sounded like I was talking about the entire mustering industry. As you said, this sort of thing reflects badly on the whole segment of the industry, whereas it is a minority that actually cause it. If the "bad eggs" could be weeded out, it might make it easier for the rest of the mustering companies to actually make some reasonable $$ out of it, thereby reducing the temptation to underrecord in the first place. Well, we would hope so anyway.
Cheers,
MPT
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The problem with the electronic telemetary, is the fact that it will be expensive to acquire and install..........and it will be, when was the last time time you bolted something to your machine that didn't cost an arm and a leg, let alone something electronic. The unit will have to be developed to not cause any interferance to avionics or other electronic equipment, after all that it will have to be stc'd or eo'd. So the the coneheads and CAR 35 boys will make a packet while the honest operators will have to shell out thousands for something they dont need because they're the honest guys and not the scourge on our fine industry.
Meanwhile, the crooks will find a way around the system. They always do. If there's a system it can be beaten.
I'm probably ranting on a bit, but I' m passionate about the helicopter industry and the good people in it, and I hate seeing its name dirtied by greedy idiots who care for nothing but themselves
Meanwhile, the crooks will find a way around the system. They always do. If there's a system it can be beaten.
I'm probably ranting on a bit, but I' m passionate about the helicopter industry and the good people in it, and I hate seeing its name dirtied by greedy idiots who care for nothing but themselves
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Mr Shelfish: Fair point, but I have my doubts that it would work in the long term. The cost is high, but if there was some compensation/rebate from insurance companies for the said installation, then it might lure mustering operators to take part.
I would add that it would have to be made applicable to all makes of helo's and not just Robinsons though.
I would add that it would have to be made applicable to all makes of helo's and not just Robinsons though.
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Would be great if Frank could install recorders - non erasable - recording every overlimit - only resetable at the factory! Exchange units get stored with the reference number from the previous one hard programmed!
Like with the turbines: Before the EC120 in the hangar, no one would tell on overtemps, etc. on the Bell 206. On the EC now there is no way around!
3top
Like with the turbines: Before the EC120 in the hangar, no one would tell on overtemps, etc. on the Bell 206. On the EC now there is no way around!
3top
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G'Day all, Just heared that CASA will not be reducing the life on the blades, because Robinson has come through and is going to approve a repair scheme for the remove and replace of the bolts.
Cant be sure of the accuracy of the information though cause I heared it second hand
Cant be sure of the accuracy of the information though cause I heared it second hand
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This has been an interesting thread. Did anyone ever come back with the name of the mustering outfit that had the R-22.
Those that say the few ruin it for the rest are spot on. I have visited a few operators in Qld and the NT and out of the five, three were well run, professional operations and the other two I would never go back to or step into their machines.
One that I was impressed with was Heli Muster NT. Spent a whole week there and everything looked good. The guys I flew with, including John A for those that know him, didnt thrash the Robbie and actually were more easy going on it than I have seen at some of the flight schools. Seems like their new cattle mustering methods rely more on gently gently ways of doing things rather than the rip **** bust of the old days. He did demonstrate how they did it in the old days and that was an eye opening experience to watch.
They recognised a few years ago that they were having a few accidents and from what I was told went back to basics and held a number of classes for their pilots, such things as downwind ops, engine failures, lte etc etc and since then the accident rate for Heli Muster NT has dropped to minimal numbers. Some of you here could answer that better than me.
What did make laugh was their dump, complete with literally hundreds of time ex R-22 blades, as well as a few R-22 wrecks
have photos of this if anyone wants to see them.
Overall I was impressed with the way the industry has changed. It seems like the cowboys are still there, not they are a minority, not a majority like the old days. Should they be charged with murder if caught screwing the hours on the blades - yep and throw away the key. This industry needs to enforce itself as CASA is plain bloody useless. Thats what CASA stands for C**ts Against Safe Aviation.
Comments on this from anyone.
Those that say the few ruin it for the rest are spot on. I have visited a few operators in Qld and the NT and out of the five, three were well run, professional operations and the other two I would never go back to or step into their machines.
One that I was impressed with was Heli Muster NT. Spent a whole week there and everything looked good. The guys I flew with, including John A for those that know him, didnt thrash the Robbie and actually were more easy going on it than I have seen at some of the flight schools. Seems like their new cattle mustering methods rely more on gently gently ways of doing things rather than the rip **** bust of the old days. He did demonstrate how they did it in the old days and that was an eye opening experience to watch.
They recognised a few years ago that they were having a few accidents and from what I was told went back to basics and held a number of classes for their pilots, such things as downwind ops, engine failures, lte etc etc and since then the accident rate for Heli Muster NT has dropped to minimal numbers. Some of you here could answer that better than me.
What did make laugh was their dump, complete with literally hundreds of time ex R-22 blades, as well as a few R-22 wrecks
have photos of this if anyone wants to see them. Overall I was impressed with the way the industry has changed. It seems like the cowboys are still there, not they are a minority, not a majority like the old days. Should they be charged with murder if caught screwing the hours on the blades - yep and throw away the key. This industry needs to enforce itself as CASA is plain bloody useless. Thats what CASA stands for C**ts Against Safe Aviation.
Comments on this from anyone.
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Well if we're talking about the same John A, (which Im sure we are), Im lucky enough to be instructed by him, an amazing pilot.
Coming from the building industry I think that the one thing that made the work place alot safer was the unions. Not that Im particularly advocating that style but over the last 15 years Ive seen sites get progressively safer.
One thing that may be worth thinking about is something like the PHPA, having a recomended company register. The idea that any company that wants to can register with them, and have the log books and the service sheets on file. THe benefit for the company would come in with insurance cuts or something of the like.
Only an idea.
One other thing when mobile cranes go out on site they are required to have their log books with them and a a photocopy is taken of the log book and kept by the customer.
Again its the few F@#$ing it up for hte honest ones, so there must be some way for the honest ones to benifit and the dishonest ones to pay.
Coming from the building industry I think that the one thing that made the work place alot safer was the unions. Not that Im particularly advocating that style but over the last 15 years Ive seen sites get progressively safer.
One thing that may be worth thinking about is something like the PHPA, having a recomended company register. The idea that any company that wants to can register with them, and have the log books and the service sheets on file. THe benefit for the company would come in with insurance cuts or something of the like.
Only an idea.
One other thing when mobile cranes go out on site they are required to have their log books with them and a a photocopy is taken of the log book and kept by the customer.
Again its the few F@#$ing it up for hte honest ones, so there must be some way for the honest ones to benifit and the dishonest ones to pay.
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My LAME told me today that CASA has dropped the requirement for eddy testing.
The word now is that the visual inspection is the requirement.
Anyone heard similarly.
The word now is that the visual inspection is the requirement.
Anyone heard similarly.