Gazelle: Flying, operating, buying
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Shawn,. .. .I agree with your explanation. This effect was first demonstrated to me during my QHI course when the aircraft was fairly new in RAF service.. .. .I showed it to students many times afterwards just for fun and to prove it wasn't a fluke and to get them thinking. . .. .I find it easier to understand if "Nr" is substituted for "N2".. .. .As the Nr is sensed relative to the fuselage, a left yaw fools the governor into thinking that the Nr is too high, which of course it isn't, it's not changed. The fuel flow is wrongly reduced by the governor, which means that the true Nr is now reduced (to match the rate of yaw). This results in a descent because at the same collective pitch setting, the rotor thrust has been reduced.. .. .All we need now is an explanation for the marked nose-down pitching when the aircraft is allowed to rotate to the left at a high rate.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
Join Date: Apr 1999
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I 've had it with discussing cheddar tech' nonsense on your posting LOOSE NUT. I completely endorse FLYING LAWYERS comments. His advice is positive and very sound. I am always available for LHS guidance should you wish and live on the South Coast, a great place to fly- do call in. . .. .Just to dispell any confusion - Crab ..... I thought you'd get the joke!. .. .eden
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Loose Nut. .. .All of the above technical points are valid and MOST are quite accurate, but don't let them put you off. I fly, instruct on and display the Gazelle and it is 100% fun, but like any other helicopter it can bite. . .As far as Jack Stall is concerned, as long as you operate the machine in the way you intended when you bought it you SHOUDN'T experience the problem. If you do, once demonstrated and practised, it is not (normally) difficult to recover.. .As for fenestron Stall/Yaw Divergance/Loss of Tail Rotor Authority, call it what you will, operate within the published limititations and with sound airmanship and again you SHOULDN'T experience it.. .Enjoy your time with the aircraft, its a real cracker and bags of fun and don't let some of the above technical posts blind you into thinking anything else.. .. .EDEN. .I too would love to hear when and where you looped, inverted and pedal turned to the left in the Gazelle. And who cleared you and the aircraft to to it! I too have/do display the Gazelle, but I'm not allowed to fly any of the above.. .. .CRAB. .How are you mate? Devon keeping you well I hope!. .. .MM
Join Date: Apr 1999
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Chuck Leg - How hard do you all need your chain yanked? Cos I can just keep on pulling (more and more as I go over the top).. .. .I have enjoyed this but not as much as I have enjoyed flying the X-15 !. .. .eden
Chicken Leg, I reckon eden is another of Griff's nomes de prune!! Devon is great except we have to keep going out and rescuing people in sh** weather!. . . . <small>[ 10 March 2002, 14:17: Message edited by: [email protected] ]</small>
Eden, one born every day. I reckon he's a newbie in the mil. Young up and coming thruster who thinks no-one has done what he's doing now. Remember those days?. .. .More importantly, how's your health?. .. .Take care. .. .PS: The bit that scared me was when I was half way over the top and all the dust and s***t, china graphs, etc flew everywhere and half a dozen captions came on <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> . .. .LOOSE NUT: you still haven't answered me, are you T from TLC???. . . . <small>[ 10 March 2002, 18:01: Message edited by: Thomas coupling ]</small>
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TC - I is feeling good, awaiting some final nods and winks, so don't really know the score - how is you these days?. .. .I'm feeling benevolent - before we descend into the depths of RAF v RN and who has done this and flown that and who is going to scratch who's eyes out! I will end it here, Crab & ChuKK leg - I think you're great I'm sure you've been there and done that ...... just don't imagine that you're the only ones ...... .TC - the Chinagraphs .. yeah they used to hit me in the face and my FRC's use to end up wedged under m'little yellow and black wirelocked thinga-me. . .. .That is it LOOSE NUT - have fun in the machine I'd love to see a pic !. .. .eden
Join Date: Dec 2001
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I've seen this a/c down at Redhill - it rocks!. .. .If you see a Katana coming at you my advice is to move as it's probably me..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . .. .Lucky sod. Have hours of fun in it!
Chicken Leg, no I'm wrong - Griff would have been funny and used wit to riposte rather than trying to cover up getting caught bullshi**ing civvies about derring do in the whistling sperm.
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Eden. .. .So let me get this right. You were winding up a civvy guy who posted a valid and legitimate question regarding his very expensive new purchase and who probably has no concept of service/inter service banter. Yeah OK! Cos it couldn't have been me as that last post was my first and how could you have known?. Wow, I get it, you knew that I was going to read it and respond in a way that you and Thomas would find amusing. Jeez, you old timers really are good. . .. .PS. It's been a while since I've been described as YOUNG. A great big thruster maybe! (Joke!)
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Hey guys. .. .thanks for all your replies (each and every one),will reply in a few days been busy earning, hope you don't think I am being rude. keep it coming.. .. .LOOSE NUT.. .PS, TC no I am not your man from TLC
Senis Semper Fidelis
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lancashire U K
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Hey Loose Nut,. .. .When you are in total charge of your pristine Gazelle, come up here to the North o England, I will be happy to accompany you all day(any day) around the bueti spots of the North, Ie Malham, Settle, Lake District, The Swan at Newby Bridge, The Whoop Hall, The De Tably at Ribchester, The Angel at Hetton, The Northcote Manor at Whalley, The Shireburn at Hurst Green, The Inn at Whitewell they are all available to be visited via the sky, so come on up, plenty of places to fuel up, send me an E and will arrange all! Also will intro you to a Dark matallic Blue and Dark Matallic Green Gazzer, if you so wish <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />
Join Date: May 2001
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Thomas Coupling:. .Pardon the tardy reply to your post, I binnaway.. .Kevin B has not gone short of replacement torsion bars, having sourced some from friends in uniform and others from Eurocopter. His current problem would seem to be that the MoD have reconsidered their release programme for superannuated Gazelles, for various reasons, and you can't get them for love or money. Cramped his style a bit.. .He is, however, well.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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A gentle word of warning ...... .. .
In recent weeks, there have been a number of posts on different threads which, although dressed up as helpful recommendations in response to questions, are actually advertisements placed by people (often instructors) connected with particular flight schools / helicopter vendors.
Advertising revenue is important to PPRuNe and, for that reason, Moderators are instructed to delete any post which amounts to free advertisements for businesses that don't pay PPRuNe's (very modest) advertising charges.
Strictly, that includes even recommendations and in some forums the rule is applied very strictly. We allow a degree of latitude in this forum and, with some exceptions, Admin let us use our discretion and don't intervene.
Genuine independent personal recommendations are useful. I've made some myself, and I've followed recommendations made by others. But, if this is to continue, we need your cooperation.
We hope it won't become necessary to name names - you know who you are . . .
Please stop posting bogus 'recommendations' promoting flight schools/businesses with which you are connected.
It's not fair to the owners of PPRuNe - and it's not fair to con fellow Rotorheads into believing they are being offered independent advice when it's not.
A blanket ban on all recommendations would only spoil things for everybody.
We've edited some posts on this thread and deleted one entirely. Others appear to be genuine recommendations from neutral sources and remain as written.
The above comments don't apply to Loose Nut - thanks for starting an interesting discussion.. . . .
[ 12 March 2002, 12:13: Message edited by: Heliport ]
In recent weeks, there have been a number of posts on different threads which, although dressed up as helpful recommendations in response to questions, are actually advertisements placed by people (often instructors) connected with particular flight schools / helicopter vendors.
Advertising revenue is important to PPRuNe and, for that reason, Moderators are instructed to delete any post which amounts to free advertisements for businesses that don't pay PPRuNe's (very modest) advertising charges.
Strictly, that includes even recommendations and in some forums the rule is applied very strictly. We allow a degree of latitude in this forum and, with some exceptions, Admin let us use our discretion and don't intervene.
Genuine independent personal recommendations are useful. I've made some myself, and I've followed recommendations made by others. But, if this is to continue, we need your cooperation.
We hope it won't become necessary to name names - you know who you are . . .
Please stop posting bogus 'recommendations' promoting flight schools/businesses with which you are connected.
It's not fair to the owners of PPRuNe - and it's not fair to con fellow Rotorheads into believing they are being offered independent advice when it's not.
A blanket ban on all recommendations would only spoil things for everybody.
We've edited some posts on this thread and deleted one entirely. Others appear to be genuine recommendations from neutral sources and remain as written.
The above comments don't apply to Loose Nut - thanks for starting an interesting discussion.. . . .
[ 12 March 2002, 12:13: Message edited by: Heliport ]
Join Date: May 2001
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Heliport:. .I presume, since you've deleted my post, that it's me you're referring to.. .May I assure you that my recommendation of the man in question is entirely sincere, and that advertising has nothing to do with it. I believe if you talk to any ex-Bristow instructor, they will concur. I have no interest in the organisation for whom he works, although I have instructed there in the past.. .I would ask you to reinstate my post.
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t'aint natural. .. .Yes, you were one of the people I had in mind, but not the only one. Yours was the only post deleted, but others were edited. My comments were about 'recommendation' posts in general, not just yours, and not just this thread.. .Let's look at the facts.. .From the consistently excellent quality of your contributions, I thought you were probably an ATPL or an instructor, or both. But I also became very suspicious, again based on nothing but your own posts, that you weren't entirely independent when promoting the London Helicopter Centre. Think for example about the thread I deleted. People often say a particular school/instructor is very good -you went much further than that.. .And, let's be fair, my suspicions did turn out to be right.. .. .I explained in my earlier post why, if Moderators are to allow some flexibility of the strict PPRuNe rule, the recommendations have to be genuinely independent. I do not consider recommending a school where you instruct (or a fellow instructor at the school) to be an independent recommendation. . .That decision is final, subject only to being over-ruled by Danny - but I think you'll find his approach to this type of post rather less flexible than mine. (He pays the bills!). .. .Moderators have to take a view about 'recommendation' posts. eg If, as here (before the edits) a business that doesn't have an established history/reputation for supplying Gazelles and has only supplied a few (one or two?) is promoted, it's not unreasonable of the Moderators to be a little suspicious that the plugs may be from friends/associates of the proprietor. When satisfied customers pay compliments, that's a different matter.. .. .Recommendations and plugs are different animals.. .eg. .One contributor said he was a Gazelle instructor and included his CV with his offer of help - edited for obvious reasons.. .Another well-known ex-mil Gazelle expert and current civvy instructor(GreenArrow) contributed to the general discussion but didn't promote himself/his business at all - perfect, no problem.. .Another experienced Gazelle pilot (Eden) offered help, but not instruction for payment - again, no problem.. .. .I'm sure I'm not the only one who values your contributions to PPRuNe, and Rotorheads in particular. I am not prepared to reinstate your earlier post but, I suggest a compromise. If you give your recommendation again and limit it to his name, that he's an experienced ex-mil Gazelle instructor and where he teaches, it won't be deleted.. .. .I've gone into some detail out of respect for your valuable contributions. I hope it at least helps to explain where I'm coming from and, I hope, will satisfy you.. . . . <small>[ 13 March 2002, 23:00: Message edited by: Heliport ]</small>
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Heliport:. .You have made a mistake. You have access to my posts; on what do you base the inference that I am a serial advertiser?. .My recommendation to Loose Nut, and anyone else who wishes to fly Gazelles, was for Peter Abbott at LHC at Redhill. I have no personal interest in his business, but I know that he is an outstanding instructor, AAC-trained, with 2000 hours on Gazelles and an excellent reputation in the industry. I find his instruction to be uniquely useful and my recommendation of him was every bit as sincere and genuine as Tudor's of Al Gwilt; your arbitrary removal of my post was unwarranted.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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t'ain't natural. .Relax, they weren't getting at you personally, and Heliport is obviously a fan of yours. Just a general warning to everybody.. .He didn't say you were a serial advertiser, just they figured out your connected with the LFC which means your recommendation isn't truly independant so it gets deleted. It's not a bad rule is it? How can they tell between 'sincere' posts and 'promotional' posts if people work for the company.. .At least you get proper eplanations on this forum - on some others you just get told to bog off if you don't like what they do!. . . . <small>[ 14 March 2002, 09:42: Message edited by: Hoverman ]</small>