Loss Of Nerve ?

[cloudchaser5]

Hi there

Just wondering ! Not sure if its old age , or just statistics ! Have approx 4500 hours various types , but have this feeling lately of not being comfortable in the air !

Have had no serious problems in my flying career todate , have had a lot of warning lights over the years , lost engine in flight etc..

Does anybody else experience this sense of being uncomfortable at times for no apparent reason ! even flying in excellent VFR wx can feel ill at ease

Any thought grateful

[flygunz]

You might not find that your thread will produce many replies as I haven't met many Pilots willing to bare their soul when it comes to talking about things like this. Therefore I applaud your honesty and would think that you should talk with someone qualified to work this out with you.
From a Pilots perspective I'm of the opinion that there is a very definite point in a flying career where reliance on luck is replaced with decisions based on experience, perhaps you just need to realise that you're ok at what you do and stay in control.
Otherwise, take a holiday, de-stress and consider whats important then make a judgement based on how you feel.

Wish I could take my own advice!!!

Regards

[SASless]

I sometimes have that feeling....usually when the weather is the best....the sector is a very long one...plenty of fuel...everything is absolutely hunky-dory.....then one has time to think, contemplate one's choice in occupations. What brings this on....beats me. I always wondered what it would be like to sling a blade....would it depart at the five o'clock position or somewhere else....I think I settled on the eleven o'clock direction for some reason.

On the other hand....when the weather is like that Chinese Indian girl....Ug Lee.....fuel is an issue....turbulence is banging you about....temp is running just below freezing...and it is raining yet.....I do not seem to get those uneasy feelings.

I see the difference being having the time to think about things that should not be thought of while flying....those are best left to other times. Bottom line, if you have these thoughts you are only getting in touch with your own mortality....it is a risky business we are in. I buy lottery tickets too....hopefully I will win that one before my number comes in on the other.

[B Sousa]

Dont know if you can call it "Loss of Nerve". I find it can be called "Loss of Interest". After 35 years its just not the same. I only want to fly on nice days, hate going to the Grand Canyon in 30-40 knot winds as I know the PAX will Puke and I will get the S kicked out of me. Just NOT FUN.
I remember the days when I was starting off, I couldnt get enough flight time, eyes were wide open....Time moves on. Now its work.
I find the best way to keep my spirits up is to continue working part time at different locations for different companies. Routine differs and it is always a learning process as to new procedures, maybe different aircraft etc. It puts the challenge in the equation and as a partimer Im no threat to the guys who need fulltime work to support their families.
Flygunz is pretty right on as some keep quiet so their employers dont get wind of their feelings.
I feel better already, time to head for the Big Ditch.

[NickLappos]

cloudchaser5,

It is funny that you bring this up. Every now and then I get that realization that I am a mile above the ground and the thin aluminum skin is all that is between me and the ground. A sort of "gee!" feeling that is discomforting, and makes me look carefully at the gages. I never thought about it until you reminded me.

I think it might be a sign of intelligence, but I flunk because I quickly let it pass!

[VTA]

Many moons ago, when I flew in the RN, walking out onto a pitching, rolling, heaving flight deck at night under "tactical night lighting" procedures i.e. next to none, always made my heart stick in my throat....Once airbourne, everything was fine again, it was the unknown that made me uneasy. Most of the guys in the squadron felt the same way and talking over a few beers sure helped reduce the feeling of "am I alone". Talk to the guys you work with it will help for sure and again, I admire your honesty.

[MightyGem]

Want to get that "uneasy" feeling? Just take a look up through the roof at the head whizzing round. That'll do it every time.

[jayteeto]

I don't think you have lost your nerve. People do sometimes feel this way and it can be one or more of hundreds of reasons. One of the most obvious is fatigue and underarousal. Can you take a break? A real break where you can rest your mind, not a week of catching up on DIY etc, stressing yourself. I also have 4500 hours and have a new job (same unit as mightygem) I suddenly have no paperwork to do and 12 hour shifts take forever.... Sad I know, but I have started to fill my time with trivial things like crosswords, model making, reading and I feel 10 years younger. My flying is becoming fun again. I now realise just how stressed I was in the military.
If you are not stressed, you may just be bored and have too much spare capacity to think about the bad things. Get a new challenge and see how you get on.

[Lu Zuckerman]

Which road do I take? The reluctant passenger.

Many moons ago when I was a flight mechanic in the USCG I operated on the “Grey hair and balls philosophy” I figured if the pilots had some Grey hair that meant experience and if they had the balls to fly it I would get in and fly with them.

Some time later I was offered a direct commission in the USCG as an engineering officer with the opportunity to attend flight school. I would have been involved with the introduction and maintenance of the HUS-1G (HH-34). For personal reasons I turned the offer down. Almost every one on that program was either killed or injured in the crashes of the helicopter. My next opportunity was a direct commission in the North Carolina National Guard and direct entry into flight school. That would have lead directly to Vietnam. I turned that offer down as well.

But the thing that makes me a reluctant passenger in anything that flies was my involvement with helicopters and fixed wing aircraft as a tech rep and mainly in my 35 year involvement as a Reliability, Maintainability and Systems Safety Engineer on helicopters, commercial aircraft and ships. What I saw relative to the manufacturer willingness to overlook flaws in their respective systems in order to cut costs or save time made me ill.

Then there are manufacturing errors and the errors of the mechanics maintaining the systems.

Couple all this together and you get systems that are not nearly as safe and reliable as the manufacturers and operators claim.

Even though I am reluctant to fly I still have the greatest respect for the guys that do.

[The Ferret]

The "What Ifs"

Cloudchaser5 - are you sure that it is lack of nerve? Maybe you are doing just as you should and running through those emergencies in your mind, one by one, and deciding what action you would take if, by bad luck, the helo chose to throw one of them at you.

NickLappos's comments echo my experiences (3,500 hours of them!) when you look out the window down at the ground a long way beneath you and wonder what would or could happen if the thin fuselage decided to part - but then you should turn these thoughts to the good practice of running through the "what ifs".

I am sure that every pilot, if he/she chose to admit it, has had similar thoughts - those of us who are still flying put these thoughts to good use. Pilots who allow their minds to wander, will scare themselves further and should keep their feet firmly on the ground.

Hope this helps.

[2Sticks]

Feelings not just confined to flying

Cloudchaser5, I think what you're describing is what many people experience - even if they've never flown an aircraft. Isn't it the case that everyone, at some time in their lives, thinks about their own mortality. Not just in a 'deep 'n' meanful' sense either - I'm talking about maybe driving along in your car at 70 mph being aware that there are hundreds of other cars coming towards you - any one of which could flick out of control and crash head on into you. Perhaps it's that same sort of feeling you sometimes get in the air, flying along, minding your own business when you suddenly think 'what if'?

I believe it's probably perfectly natural - it's only thinking about the risk and maintaining concentration that keeps us alive in such situations. As a low hours PPL(H) I occasionally think those 'what ifs?' - you just end up thinking something like 'well, everyone's got to go sometime' and then you get on with the job in hand.

A bit like all stress really - some of it is essential to keep us alive and kicking, too much, and there can be serious consequences.

My vote is you're perfectly normal (or the rest of us are bonkers too!)



2Sticks

[MightyGem]

Taken to extremes, this slight unease can result in something called Break-off Phenomenon, where the pilot gets the sensation of being removed from the aircraft, often reporting of being outside the cockpit looking in. It is a dissociative psychological reaction classically reported by high altitude, single-pilot, jet fighter pilots, on long transits with little to do but monitor the instuments.

However, helicopter pilots have reported episodes of break-off phenomenon. Typically, it has occurred in level flight at greater than 2,000 feet above ground level on hazy days or on long cross-country missions over featureless terrain. Interestingly, it has been reported by pilots flying side- by-side with other pilots. Radio communications usually alleviate the dissociative symptoms.

[SASless]

Gem,

Closing one's eyes works too....for a very short while.

Did the annual dive training gig for the Sheriff's Office today....did a Short Haul evolution that convinced me I am absolutely normal...I was uncomfortable having five guys hanging under the helicopter on 90 foot ropes....if I had been on the rope instead of flying it....I would have been petrified!
Now ask me if I had any misgivings about hovering over the middle of a large lake for three and a half hours in a single engine helicopter (with no emergency floats....)....one cannot be too introspective in this business.

[Whirlybird]

Way back...and I've been PPRuNing for a long time...someone started a thread on Private Flying, saying that he always felt really, really nervous before going flying. He asked how many hours you had to have before that feeling went. Well, guess what! Loads of other people posted..."I've got 500 hours and I still..."; "I've got 2000 hours and...". It was NORMAL to feel that way. Almost everyone did, at one time or another. Loads of people were relieved that it was out in the open, because they'd thought they were the only one, and hadn't dared say anything.

The only time I haven't felt that way from time to time was for a very short time as a new student, when I was foolish enough to completely believe my instructor, who told me that helicopters were really, really safe, that these engines never failed, etc etc. Ignorance was definitely bliss! It wasn't till I learned a bit more, flew a bit more, and...well, lived a bit longer, that I realised he was wrong. Flying's never been the same again...but I'm flying safer al least.

So, cloudchaser, I think you're just NORMAL.

[flyer43]

Although I've occasionally suffered specific "concerns" when airborne, especially when a student is at the controls, I've always had a "healthy fear" of flying and have promised myself that if I ever lose that fear I should give up flying.
Although I thoroughly enjoy flying, the "healthy fear" I have helps to keep my mind focused and reminds me that things can, and do go wrong - so be prepared.......!!

[J.A.F.O.]

It's not called fear, it's called respect; respect for all of the things that are trying to kill you today. It's healthy, in fact it's the only way to make sure that the things don't kill you.

[flygunz]

I'm of the opinion that most of us under estimate the psychological effects of flying regardless of whether we operate low level at night using systems or up at altitude responsibe for passengers. It wasn't until I worked with the US Army as a FI that I managed to put some of my psychological demons in the correct boxes, realised I was mortal and normal and was able to operate better.
I think the comments about the 'loss of nerve' are spot on, I don't think it's usual to lose your nerve whilst flying I would have thought a loss of nerve would stop you going in the first place, therefore I agree with Whirlychick you are just like the rest of us... just maybe not so good looking!!

[SASless]

Flygunz,

I think the concern was about the onset of anxiety while flying that did not necessarily have an identifiable cause. We can all account for the "normal" concerns about things that happen based upon statistics....engine failures...tail rotor failures, etc. I think the original intent was to seek input from others about those sudden "What am I doing here!" feelings we sometimes get.

Take me to 5-6,000 feet above the terrain in mountainous country....in a JetRanger without a full set of instruments on a smoky/hazy day.....(with adequate visual reference)...and watch me squirm....but in a 212 with a full dash....and no problem. Is it the second engine...the full instrument panel...the seat...or the lack of a good browline/horizion sight in the JetRanger...that gets me?

Interesting statistic out of the PHPA Safety Conference.....our industry kills 59 pilots per year and the rate appears to be increasing. How many airline pilots die in accidents each year?

[flygunz]

Sasless
If one feels anxious for no apparent reason then the cause is most probably psychological rather than a situational or stastistical reason. But hey no arguments from me, this is the first thread in a long time where I feel a bit of a bond with my fellow professionals and if possible would invite ya'll round to share the Wild Turkey
I just hope cloudchaser is getting the right responses.

[diethelm]

In an insane world, only the sane feel insane.