sexual harassment?
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
From: in swag
my advise is this.
unless the female wishing to be in the front seat is your daughter,mother,aunt,granny,wife or girlfriend. DONT...
all others are in the back
the only female that gets to sit front seat with me flying is my daughter
I like my work, the company I work for and
I LOVE MY HOUSE,CAR AND MY UNCOMPLICATED LIFE TO MUCH. to be jacked around by a possible sexual harassment claim..
I always brief female pax with a third party present.
I always load female pax in the machine with a third party present.
and I only speak to a female pax once in the machine if I am spoken to or if it is operationaly important...
AND YES I HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE A.I.D.S. ( aviation indused divoirse syndrome,, be good if i could spell ) and have absolutely no trust in the so called fairer sex
unless the female wishing to be in the front seat is your daughter,mother,aunt,granny,wife or girlfriend. DONT...
all others are in the back
the only female that gets to sit front seat with me flying is my daughter
I like my work, the company I work for and
I LOVE MY HOUSE,CAR AND MY UNCOMPLICATED LIFE TO MUCH. to be jacked around by a possible sexual harassment claim..
I always brief female pax with a third party present.
I always load female pax in the machine with a third party present.
and I only speak to a female pax once in the machine if I am spoken to or if it is operationaly important...
AND YES I HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE A.I.D.S. ( aviation indused divoirse syndrome,, be good if i could spell ) and have absolutely no trust in the so called fairer sex
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 20
From: I have no idea but the view's great.
Reef
How terribly sad.
If a pilot cannot brief a pax or speak to a pax just because one of them is female and the other isn't; then it's a crazy world.
Either that or the world's okay and you've gone crazy - do you not think that, perhaps, you have taken it a little too far?
How terribly sad.
If a pilot cannot brief a pax or speak to a pax just because one of them is female and the other isn't; then it's a crazy world.
Either that or the world's okay and you've gone crazy - do you not think that, perhaps, you have taken it a little too far?
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,776
Likes: 1
From: UK
After a full carreer in the Forces, I now work for a business where I manage 18 ladies. I have to watch what I say and do - one of them was quick to point out banter and body language matters at an early stage; I felt that I had to walk on eggshells - otherwise watch out. So, little banter, selective comment and care taken with certain individuals to avoid one-on-one situations. Thankfully, most of them are mature enough to cause no problems, but you never can tell just how your innocently intended remark will be mis-interpreted.
Gatvol
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,197
Likes: 1
From: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
FJJP. Your comments are well understood. Anywhere Men and Women work in close quarters there will be some display of Hormones. Look at the Military today, what a mess. Bottom line I guess is one should not S
where one eats. Tough to do when your young.
where one eats. Tough to do when your young.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: Lone Star State
It has become a sad place Whirly 2. Sad in that now I must sleep through 16 hours of [I]Workplace Diversity[I] training each year. Yeah..., the gals thought having the word "sexual" in the title singled them out so, someone decided in the best interest of all concerned "let's make it name friendly". What a load of crap!
Now, if you two Whirlys wonder why we're a tad paranoid or cynical watch one of those tapes or go over the case review in which countless innocent dudes are being bent over for "the cause". Ol' FJJP hit it on the head - there is no "innocent remark" anymore. There are no jokes anymore. There is no "office humor" anymore. It's all witnessed conversations or tape recorders and CCTVs. Hell, I'm not even allowed to scratch where it itches anymore! ! ! What's the world coming too? ! ?
Oh..., sorry B. hormones, well... male hormones anyway, are forbidden as well. One of the tapes say ya gotta keep any "tendencies" in check at all times.
Now, if you two Whirlys wonder why we're a tad paranoid or cynical watch one of those tapes or go over the case review in which countless innocent dudes are being bent over for "the cause". Ol' FJJP hit it on the head - there is no "innocent remark" anymore. There are no jokes anymore. There is no "office humor" anymore. It's all witnessed conversations or tape recorders and CCTVs. Hell, I'm not even allowed to scratch where it itches anymore! ! ! What's the world coming too? ! ?
Oh..., sorry B. hormones, well... male hormones anyway, are forbidden as well. One of the tapes say ya gotta keep any "tendencies" in check at all times.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
From: Aberdeen.
I am assuming you live in the USA, we aren't subjected to Politcal Correctness Videos thank god.
I am a pilot on the North Sea Pumas and happen to be a Doris, (that's narrowed me down to one of 6 people) One of my favorite things at work is all the banter and piss taking I am subject to. If my work colleagues were ever to get all PC I would be mortified.
One of the nicest things a captain said to me was "You are a bloke as far as I am concerned when you are in the cockpit."!
That's why it's called a cockpit.
I am a pilot on the North Sea Pumas and happen to be a Doris, (that's narrowed me down to one of 6 people) One of my favorite things at work is all the banter and piss taking I am subject to. If my work colleagues were ever to get all PC I would be mortified.
One of the nicest things a captain said to me was "You are a bloke as far as I am concerned when you are in the cockpit."!
That's why it's called a cockpit.
Last edited by Blind; 28th September 2004 at 06:01.
Gatvol
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,197
Likes: 1
From: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Times change, just have to live with it or find another job.
The first time female types got into the Military flying end, I happened to be flying MedEvac in a Huey. We got two nice young officers on board and both in my eyes were 10s. I mean really sharp. Then we got a few women medics, crew chiefs etc, where it came to the All female crew. Anyway the two Pilot types were automatically skygods and beyond any criticism of their flying abilities. So much so that both of them in the cockpit...I mean personpit, fought like two cats in a paper bag.
They were also the first all female crew to die together as they flew into night weather that some Male counterparts said was too dangerous.
The first time female types got into the Military flying end, I happened to be flying MedEvac in a Huey. We got two nice young officers on board and both in my eyes were 10s. I mean really sharp. Then we got a few women medics, crew chiefs etc, where it came to the All female crew. Anyway the two Pilot types were automatically skygods and beyond any criticism of their flying abilities. So much so that both of them in the cockpit...I mean personpit, fought like two cats in a paper bag.
They were also the first all female crew to die together as they flew into night weather that some Male counterparts said was too dangerous.
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
Likes: 2
From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
This is all just totally completely ridiculous!!!! I spent most of my youth being told I couldn't do this, that and the other...hitchhike or walk alone at night or whatever, because all men were nasty evil rapists just waiting to molest any female who gave them half a chance. I didn't listen...never was much good at listening...and it wasn't true. Now I'm hearing that the guys are all walking on eggshells because any woman is going to scream rape if they get within ten yards of her or make any comment appertaining to straight long things etc. I don't believe that's true either. The world hasn't become a sad place; its always had fools of both sexes who over-react, if you bother to listen to them. Thankfully, the fools are in a minority, and I KNOW that most people, at least in the UK, don't think like this.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
From: At Work
Whirlybird:
It is simply a fact of life, certainly in the U.S.
I have been involved with companies which have successfully defended against these suits but the costs are in the 100s of thousands of dollars. The appropriate behaivor is as stated, do nothing, say nothing, look at the ground. It is simply not worth the risk to engage in a meaningful conversation because you have no idea who is after what.
The civilized world has become somewhat pathetic, ridiculous and corrupt, acknowlege it, protect yourself and have a beer because it is not going to get any better.
Which reminds me of a great joke......
What do you call a busload of lawyers going off a cliff with an empty seat.
A crying shame...........
It is simply a fact of life, certainly in the U.S.
I have been involved with companies which have successfully defended against these suits but the costs are in the 100s of thousands of dollars. The appropriate behaivor is as stated, do nothing, say nothing, look at the ground. It is simply not worth the risk to engage in a meaningful conversation because you have no idea who is after what.
The civilized world has become somewhat pathetic, ridiculous and corrupt, acknowlege it, protect yourself and have a beer because it is not going to get any better.
Which reminds me of a great joke......
What do you call a busload of lawyers going off a cliff with an empty seat.
A crying shame...........
Hovering AND talking
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,711
Likes: 1
From: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
What has this world come to?
As Whirlybird said, we have been brought up to believe that all men are rapists etc etc. However, that shouldn't be and isn't MY problem which is why I will still walk whereever and whenever I want. I do not see why my lifestyle or personality should be altered and subdued because of a slim chance that there will be a rabid axeman waiting for me along the tow-path. True, I may get attacked one day but, up until that time (which may never happen), I have had the freedom to do what I want since I understand that the vast majority of men are not rapists.
Similarly for you blokes. The vast majority of women would not dream of taking a legal action for harmless banter or a bit of flirtatiousness so carry on as you would be and behave naturally.
Next time you are teaching a bird to fly a Schweizer and carrying out the pre-flight checks, when she reaches for the knob that says "PULL FOR QUICK ERECT" have a laugh over it and release some of that tension that would have previously existed.
As Whirlybird said, we have been brought up to believe that all men are rapists etc etc. However, that shouldn't be and isn't MY problem which is why I will still walk whereever and whenever I want. I do not see why my lifestyle or personality should be altered and subdued because of a slim chance that there will be a rabid axeman waiting for me along the tow-path. True, I may get attacked one day but, up until that time (which may never happen), I have had the freedom to do what I want since I understand that the vast majority of men are not rapists.
Similarly for you blokes. The vast majority of women would not dream of taking a legal action for harmless banter or a bit of flirtatiousness so carry on as you would be and behave naturally.
Next time you are teaching a bird to fly a Schweizer and carrying out the pre-flight checks, when she reaches for the knob that says "PULL FOR QUICK ERECT" have a laugh over it and release some of that tension that would have previously existed.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
From: UK
To be taught by a woman
Picking up some of the threads of the Whirlys, I can speak as a bloke who was taught by a female instructor. As it happens, she was a very attractive one (although if I was in the USA I could probably be sued for saying so 
). She had certainly managed to achieve the respect of her male peers, was great fun to fly with , tolerant, unflappable and devoid of any ego that would be likely to get in the way of her thoroughly professional teaching style - more than can be said for a few male instructors I've met. So any budding female instructors out there, if you've got the ability and the confidence, go for it. 
2Sticks
). She had certainly managed to achieve the respect of her male peers, was great fun to fly with , tolerant, unflappable and devoid of any ego that would be likely to get in the way of her thoroughly professional teaching style - more than can be said for a few male instructors I've met. So any budding female instructors out there, if you've got the ability and the confidence, go for it. 2Sticks
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 20
From: I have no idea but the view's great.
The Whirlies are a sensible bunch whether they be birds, gigs or girls.
I think we're seeing a very definite split between the UK, where we are aware of these issues but are still allowed a sense of humour, and the US where the issues appear to be rammed down one's throat and any hint of humour appears to be have been eradicated.
I hope that this attitude and litigious mindset are not like Coca-Cola and McDonald's and making their way ever eastwards.
I think we're seeing a very definite split between the UK, where we are aware of these issues but are still allowed a sense of humour, and the US where the issues appear to be rammed down one's throat and any hint of humour appears to be have been eradicated.
I hope that this attitude and litigious mindset are not like Coca-Cola and McDonald's and making their way ever eastwards.
Gatvol
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,197
Likes: 1
From: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
"The vast majority of women would not dream of taking a legal action for harmless banter or a bit of flirtatiousness so carry on as you would be and behave naturally."
In the U.S...................dont bet your career on it.
In the U.S...................dont bet your career on it.
Joined: Aug 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 4,411
Likes: 83
From: Gold Coast, Australia
In the U.S...................dont bet your career on it
Nor, I regret to say, in Australia. We are rapidly overtaking the USA in being the most litigious nation going, but I hasten to add this is not so much the male/female agenda, but on all issues.
Most employers find it cheaper and easier to make a "nominal" payout to a disgruntled ex employee than to go through IRC (Industrial Relations Commission) where costs cannot be awarded, and legal bills for the employer will inevitably be double a "go away and don't come back" payout. Indeed, most insurance companies will dictate such an approach if the company has cover against such an action.
A very sorry indictment on our society and its so called "values"
Most employers find it cheaper and easier to make a "nominal" payout to a disgruntled ex employee than to go through IRC (Industrial Relations Commission) where costs cannot be awarded, and legal bills for the employer will inevitably be double a "go away and don't come back" payout. Indeed, most insurance companies will dictate such an approach if the company has cover against such an action.
A very sorry indictment on our society and its so called "values"
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
Likes: 2
From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
I do not see why my lifestyle or personality should be altered and subdued because of a slim chance that there will be a rabid axeman waiting for me along the tow-path. True, I may get attacked one day but, up until that time (which may never happen), I have had the freedom to do what I want since I understand that the vast majority of men are not rapists.
Similarly for you blokes. The vast majority of women would not dream of taking a legal action for harmless banter or a bit of flirtatiousness so carry on as you would be and behave naturally.
Similarly for you blokes. The vast majority of women would not dream of taking a legal action for harmless banter or a bit of flirtatiousness so carry on as you would be and behave naturally.
To repeat what Whirlygig said, many women have been restricted all their lives due to fear, fear that was usually unfounded, as few men are rapists and axe-murderers. Some of us chose to live our lives fully anyway, and it worked. Same for you guys. Do you want to always walk around in fear, of something that may never happen. Is it really worth it? Don't you know enough women who are scared of their own shadows? Do you want to be like that too? Is that what equality means, in the modern world?
This has nothing to do with the world, what it's coming too, where you live etc etc; it's simply YOUR choice.
Hovering AND talking
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,711
Likes: 1
From: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Oh guys, I can't believe this is the case. Are you sure that this isn't tabloid scaremongering? The same scaremongering that tells me never to walk on my own at night?
Anyway chaps, us UK Whirlies (and we are all female) are game for a bit of banter so, if you are prepared to take it...........
Cheers
Whirlygig
Anyway chaps, us UK Whirlies (and we are all female) are game for a bit of banter so, if you are prepared to take it...........
Cheers
Whirlygig
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
From: Up In The Sky...
She had certainly managed to achieve the respect of her male peers, was great fun to fly with , tolerant, unflappable and devoid of any ego that would be likely to get in the way of her thoroughly professional teaching style - more than can be said for a few male instructors I've met. So any budding female instructors out there, if you've got the ability and the confidence, go for it.
WhirlyGirl
Avoid imitations
Joined: Nov 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 15,110
Likes: 1,083
From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
WhirlyBirds/Gigs/Girls/Sarahs,
Well said. Thank goodness for ladies like yourselves.
Life is becoming more and more awkward for us blokes. On the one hand, we are expected to be "new age men" and take over the babies nappies, ironing and jam tart making etc. We aren't supposed to mention the fact that ladies are female or in any way different - it's not allowed or we fear litigation from the PC brigade.
On the other hand, they still get miffed if a door isn't held open for them, we don't notice the slightly different shade of lipstick or new jumper they're wearing, or we don't always volunteer to do the dirty jobs such as car oil changes or unblock the sink, or we don't understand when "It just IS, alright".
We are supposed to behave like women but if you look at the average women's magazine, the "fantasy pictures" of men are still as hunky, rough and ready as they always were. So what DO women really want? Do they really know?
Answers on a postcard (large) to "Shytorque, c/o Dear Marge@PPRuNe"
Well said. Thank goodness for ladies like yourselves.
Life is becoming more and more awkward for us blokes. On the one hand, we are expected to be "new age men" and take over the babies nappies, ironing and jam tart making etc. We aren't supposed to mention the fact that ladies are female or in any way different - it's not allowed or we fear litigation from the PC brigade.
On the other hand, they still get miffed if a door isn't held open for them, we don't notice the slightly different shade of lipstick or new jumper they're wearing, or we don't always volunteer to do the dirty jobs such as car oil changes or unblock the sink, or we don't understand when "It just IS, alright".
We are supposed to behave like women but if you look at the average women's magazine, the "fantasy pictures" of men are still as hunky, rough and ready as they always were. So what DO women really want? Do they really know?
Answers on a postcard (large) to "Shytorque, c/o Dear Marge@PPRuNe"