Colour Blindness (merged)
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Hi,
I'm quite new to this forum and I tried the search option before I posted.
I'm suffering from the same problem and I'm trying to get the signallight test done in the USA. (I'm currently in the USA.)
It is quite hard for me to tell the difference between green and white, even if the JAA Medical Examiniers tell me all the time I'm "redblind".
But whenever I fly with a friend I have no problems at all seeing PAPI/VASI lights or see the rotating beacon from airports. Since we fly most of the time at night, I must say it is easier for me to see traffic, buildings, etc. at night than during the daytime. Every once in a while I see traffic and aiports even before my friend does...
On the Anomaloscope I was twice below 1.0, one time 0.5 and missed the European standart by 0.1 and the second time the examinier refused to tell me the AQ (the number). For my first medical that I passed under LBA rules, I was testet as a "greenblind".
Well also my last european medical Examinier told me I shouldn't even try to become a pilot, I'm a hopeless case, but I studied the JAA FCL 3 and read the the allowed AQ values are 0.6 to 1.4.
Now since I left more than $800.00 in Europe just to get my medical, I thought I may try it in the US and I got my first class medical with the regular restriction "Not valid for night flight and color signal control. None.".
Now I'm trying hard to take either the flight test or the signallight test in the US, but since I screwed up so many tests in Europe I'm afraid that my dream that I had for years will be completly destroyed.
Is there a chance to retake the test, in case you failed it?
Thanks in advance
Robert
I'm quite new to this forum and I tried the search option before I posted.
I'm suffering from the same problem and I'm trying to get the signallight test done in the USA. (I'm currently in the USA.)
It is quite hard for me to tell the difference between green and white, even if the JAA Medical Examiniers tell me all the time I'm "redblind".
But whenever I fly with a friend I have no problems at all seeing PAPI/VASI lights or see the rotating beacon from airports. Since we fly most of the time at night, I must say it is easier for me to see traffic, buildings, etc. at night than during the daytime. Every once in a while I see traffic and aiports even before my friend does...
On the Anomaloscope I was twice below 1.0, one time 0.5 and missed the European standart by 0.1 and the second time the examinier refused to tell me the AQ (the number). For my first medical that I passed under LBA rules, I was testet as a "greenblind".
Well also my last european medical Examinier told me I shouldn't even try to become a pilot, I'm a hopeless case, but I studied the JAA FCL 3 and read the the allowed AQ values are 0.6 to 1.4.
Now since I left more than $800.00 in Europe just to get my medical, I thought I may try it in the US and I got my first class medical with the regular restriction "Not valid for night flight and color signal control. None.".
Now I'm trying hard to take either the flight test or the signallight test in the US, but since I screwed up so many tests in Europe I'm afraid that my dream that I had for years will be completly destroyed.
Is there a chance to retake the test, in case you failed it?
Thanks in advance
Robert
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Berlin Germany
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Hi,
I'm quite new to this forum and I tried the search option before I posted.
I'm suffering from the same problem and I'm trying to get the signallight test done in the USA. (I'm currently in the USA.)
It is quite hard for me to tell the difference between green and white, even if the JAA Medical Examiniers tell me all the time I'm "redblind".
But whenever I fly with a friend I have no problems at all seeing PAPI/VASI lights or see the rotating beacon from airports. Since we fly most of the time at night, I must say it is easier for me to see traffic, buildings, etc. at night than during the daytime. Every once in a while I see traffic and aiports even before my friend does...
On the Anomaloscope I was twice below 1.0, one time 0.5 and missed the European standart by 0.1 and the second time the examinier refused to tell me the AQ (the number). For my first medical that I passed under LBA rules, I was testet as a "greenblind".
Well also my last european medical Examinier told me I shouldn't even try to become a pilot, I'm a hopeless case, but I studied the JAA FCL 3 and read the the allowed AQ values are 0.6 to 1.4.
Now since I left more than $800.00 in Europe just to get my medical, I thought I may try it in the US and I got my first class medical with the regular restriction "Not valid for night flight and color signal control. None.".
Now I'm trying hard to take either the flight test or the signallight test in the US, but since I screwed up so many tests in Europe I'm afraid that my dream that I had for years will be completly destroyed.
Is there a chance to retake the test, in case you failed it?
Thanks in advance
Robert
I'm quite new to this forum and I tried the search option before I posted.
I'm suffering from the same problem and I'm trying to get the signallight test done in the USA. (I'm currently in the USA.)
It is quite hard for me to tell the difference between green and white, even if the JAA Medical Examiniers tell me all the time I'm "redblind".
But whenever I fly with a friend I have no problems at all seeing PAPI/VASI lights or see the rotating beacon from airports. Since we fly most of the time at night, I must say it is easier for me to see traffic, buildings, etc. at night than during the daytime. Every once in a while I see traffic and aiports even before my friend does...
On the Anomaloscope I was twice below 1.0, one time 0.5 and missed the European standart by 0.1 and the second time the examinier refused to tell me the AQ (the number). For my first medical that I passed under LBA rules, I was testet as a "greenblind".
Well also my last european medical Examinier told me I shouldn't even try to become a pilot, I'm a hopeless case, but I studied the JAA FCL 3 and read the the allowed AQ values are 0.6 to 1.4.
Now since I left more than $800.00 in Europe just to get my medical, I thought I may try it in the US and I got my first class medical with the regular restriction "Not valid for night flight and color signal control. None.".
Now I'm trying hard to take either the flight test or the signallight test in the US, but since I screwed up so many tests in Europe I'm afraid that my dream that I had for years will be completly destroyed.
Is there a chance to retake the test, in case you failed it?
Thanks in advance
Robert
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Been there done that. Very simple to overcome.
First, fail the test at your AME in which he/she will issue a medical certificate with a restriction from flying at night and/or depending upon how detailed he is place a restriction prohibiting flying by lights from the tower (like you would have a choice).
Second, call the FAA and tell them you failed. The FAA will send you a letter instructing you to go to your local FSDO in which a person will stand with you on an X, call the tower and flash the lights. Green, white red. Then, assumning you can tell the difference, the person will hand you a letter stating that you have demonstrated the ability to tell the difference and in her/his hand will be a new medical with no restriction. Put the letter in the safe, bring it with you to your physical for the balance of your life, show it to the AME and skip that part of the test. The time between the call and receiving the letter is about two weeks if you call and bug them and 4 weeks if you do not.
If you are worried about the test, call the local tower on the cell phone, explain to them the situation, and they will flash the lights at you. You can even have someone else stand there and laugh at you and say, no that is green...........er blue.......er yellow......you can do this as many times as you want as you are not doing it with an individual from the FSDO.
My father, 66, has had cornea transplant and the AME simply sent his paperwork to the FAA. The FAA required a form to be completed by his eye doctor (two minutes) and they sent him his medical right away and a letter saying not to worry again. $60 for the doctor, $11 for FEDEX.
Despite what people say, my experience is that the people at the FAA medical section are extremely helpful and have always been prompt and happy to help. The only caveat is that I only require a second class medical.
Now when your shirt does not match your pants, nothing the doctor or FAA can do..............
First, fail the test at your AME in which he/she will issue a medical certificate with a restriction from flying at night and/or depending upon how detailed he is place a restriction prohibiting flying by lights from the tower (like you would have a choice).
Second, call the FAA and tell them you failed. The FAA will send you a letter instructing you to go to your local FSDO in which a person will stand with you on an X, call the tower and flash the lights. Green, white red. Then, assumning you can tell the difference, the person will hand you a letter stating that you have demonstrated the ability to tell the difference and in her/his hand will be a new medical with no restriction. Put the letter in the safe, bring it with you to your physical for the balance of your life, show it to the AME and skip that part of the test. The time between the call and receiving the letter is about two weeks if you call and bug them and 4 weeks if you do not.
If you are worried about the test, call the local tower on the cell phone, explain to them the situation, and they will flash the lights at you. You can even have someone else stand there and laugh at you and say, no that is green...........er blue.......er yellow......you can do this as many times as you want as you are not doing it with an individual from the FSDO.
My father, 66, has had cornea transplant and the AME simply sent his paperwork to the FAA. The FAA required a form to be completed by his eye doctor (two minutes) and they sent him his medical right away and a letter saying not to worry again. $60 for the doctor, $11 for FEDEX.
Despite what people say, my experience is that the people at the FAA medical section are extremely helpful and have always been prompt and happy to help. The only caveat is that I only require a second class medical.
Now when your shirt does not match your pants, nothing the doctor or FAA can do..............
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Well I did a pretest at two airports, one, where I"ll be tested tomorrow and anotherone, which is quite close to the airport where I'll be tested tomorrow. I failed at the airport where I'll be tested tomorrow, and I passed at the other airport no problem. Of course I would like to take the test at the other airport, where I know that I'' pass it. But I know my luck, I have no choice and fail the test tomorrow.
My luck was untill now in Europe failing the Anomaloskope by 0.1, failing the Holmes-Wright-Test by 1 wrong light and I used to have a medical with no limitations, but since I didn't flew during that time, I had to take a complete new one, which I failed...
Well, I'll see how it works out and then I have more than 15 hours to think about the result, because I fly back home.
Thanks guys for your help so far, and sorry for the doubble post, I didn't know in what category I should post it.
Robert
My luck was untill now in Europe failing the Anomaloskope by 0.1, failing the Holmes-Wright-Test by 1 wrong light and I used to have a medical with no limitations, but since I didn't flew during that time, I had to take a complete new one, which I failed...
Well, I'll see how it works out and then I have more than 15 hours to think about the result, because I fly back home.
Thanks guys for your help so far, and sorry for the doubble post, I didn't know in what category I should post it.
Robert
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I took the Test today at the airport where I knew that I'll pass and I passed, I have now a medical that allows me to fly with no restrictions 
Today is my happiest day, but it sucks for my friend, he just lost his job at Delta because of their restructure programm, which includes dehubbing DFW.
Today is my happiest day, but it sucks for my friend, he just lost his job at Delta because of their restructure programm, which includes dehubbing DFW.
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Well, I won't talk much about it, I got to take the test at the airport where I knew that I'll pass and I passed.
Now I "just" have to get my money together and start my license.
Robert
Now I "just" have to get my money together and start my license.
Robert
colour defficeny is with you for life. if you fail the test on monday its extremly unlikely you will pass by friday even if you take it every day. it is one thing you jus cant get round. I myself was told by my local optition that my colour defficeny was too great to become a pilot and god did i cry 
. but hey i was only about 8 or 9. When i was 14 i decided that since i had taken the test when i was quite young i would like to give it another go. Hey what have i gotta loes? i've always wanted to be a pilot and so far this is all that has stood in my way. so went to a university in london, i forget which one but it was EC1 . Took a similar lantern test there and passed that. They recomende going to the gatwick caa centre to make sure i could pass the lantern test. got down to gatwick, took the test and was throughly relived to have passed it. Next step is A's in Maths and Physics at A Levels . Message is. Go to the CAA at gatwick and get tested.
. but hey i was only about 8 or 9. When i was 14 i decided that since i had taken the test when i was quite young i would like to give it another go. Hey what have i gotta loes? i've always wanted to be a pilot and so far this is all that has stood in my way. so went to a university in london, i forget which one but it was EC1 . Took a similar lantern test there and passed that. They recomende going to the gatwick caa centre to make sure i could pass the lantern test. got down to gatwick, took the test and was throughly relived to have passed it. Next step is A's in Maths and Physics at A Levels . Message is. Go to the CAA at gatwick and get tested.
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In general RT Jones is correct, but if flying really is important too you (AND you think you have a chance at passing) then don't stop trying.
I am living proof. I have sitting in front of me (it just arrived this morning) a full unrestricted UK issued CAA class 1 medical!
Most of you have been following my story and it shows that if you want something bad enough then you really should do EVERYTHING in your power to make it happen. If I didn't managed to get a UK medical I would have gone to the US etc.
One word of warning to people who are thinking about following the way I did it. Because of the differences in the lantern tests the JAA is now in the process of making all the lantern tests standard across all of the JAA states. I don't know when/if this is happening so you will need to talk to the CAA.
Thank you to all of you here for all your support. I've got to goto work now but I'll post later.
Chris - Blinkz
I am living proof. I have sitting in front of me (it just arrived this morning
) a full unrestricted UK issued CAA class 1 medical!Most of you have been following my story and it shows that if you want something bad enough then you really should do EVERYTHING in your power to make it happen. If I didn't managed to get a UK medical I would have gone to the US etc.
One word of warning to people who are thinking about following the way I did it. Because of the differences in the lantern tests the JAA is now in the process of making all the lantern tests standard across all of the JAA states. I don't know when/if this is happening so you will need to talk to the CAA.
Thank you to all of you here for all your support. I've got to goto work now but I'll post later.
Chris - Blinkz
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I did pass in the US the signal light test straight away, but there are many factors that could cause to fail the test. I was able to change the airport, because on the other airport I would have had the sun blinding me, which makes it harder to pass. It also depends on the signal gun, some are more intense in their colors than others, which makes it easier for some people to pass the test.
I also took a test at the Gatwick airport and they have the Beynes and Holmes Wright test there. In my opinion is the Holmes Wright test easier to pass than the Beynes, but this is also like the different signal guns different for each individual.
I failed the Holmes Wright test by 1 wrong signal..., but I will take another one in Holland and I will also go for the Spektrolux Test in Switzerland. If I read the JAR-FCL 3 correctly, the JAA says you have to pass one of their tests, but they don't say how often you are allowed to try..., so keep trying, it is also a matter of luck...
I can totally agree to Blinkz, flying is my dream and I fought for my first class medical for more than 3 years by now and I wasn't able to get it in Europe, but since I have nothing left that would keep me here, I'm also willing to move somewhere else and so I tried my luck in the country where I feel home, the US and as I said, I passed...
Now I'm looking for ways to finance my education and I'm also searching for a company that helps me with the visa, so that I'll be able to move to the US.
But even if I want to work in Europe, there are many companies operating N registered businessjets and I could fly them.
So who ever has the same problem, keep fighting, it is worth it...
I also took a test at the Gatwick airport and they have the Beynes and Holmes Wright test there. In my opinion is the Holmes Wright test easier to pass than the Beynes, but this is also like the different signal guns different for each individual.
I failed the Holmes Wright test by 1 wrong signal..., but I will take another one in Holland and I will also go for the Spektrolux Test in Switzerland. If I read the JAR-FCL 3 correctly, the JAA says you have to pass one of their tests, but they don't say how often you are allowed to try..., so keep trying, it is also a matter of luck...
I can totally agree to Blinkz, flying is my dream and I fought for my first class medical for more than 3 years by now and I wasn't able to get it in Europe, but since I have nothing left that would keep me here, I'm also willing to move somewhere else and so I tried my luck in the country where I feel home, the US and as I said, I passed...
Now I'm looking for ways to finance my education and I'm also searching for a company that helps me with the visa, so that I'll be able to move to the US.
But even if I want to work in Europe, there are many companies operating N registered businessjets and I could fly them.
So who ever has the same problem, keep fighting, it is worth it...
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I do find it quite baffling that there can be different levels of acceptance in different countries within a professional environment that can affect many nations in a single journey.
When an industry has international effects, as with commercial international air traffic where multiple countries are crossed, wouldn't it make sense to have an ICAO Medical Standard, not National or even Continental standards.
God forbit it should ever happen, but for the sake of discussion, what would the implications be if, for example, a FAA licensed pilot with a SODA, flying a US civil airliner at night in VMC, incorrectly interprets the PAPI / VASI lights and crashes into a built up area short of the runway in a JAA member state? Irrespective of the fact that the pilot meets the medical standards of the country in which the aircraft is registered, the fact is that the pilot does not meet the medical standards of the country in which the flight is being made at the time of the accident. Pilot error aside, where in this example would the responsibility lie?
Does anyone know the current talk regarding SODA's following the NTSB's recommendations to the FAA following the Tallahassee Incident Report?
When an industry has international effects, as with commercial international air traffic where multiple countries are crossed, wouldn't it make sense to have an ICAO Medical Standard, not National or even Continental standards.
God forbit it should ever happen, but for the sake of discussion, what would the implications be if, for example, a FAA licensed pilot with a SODA, flying a US civil airliner at night in VMC, incorrectly interprets the PAPI / VASI lights and crashes into a built up area short of the runway in a JAA member state? Irrespective of the fact that the pilot meets the medical standards of the country in which the aircraft is registered, the fact is that the pilot does not meet the medical standards of the country in which the flight is being made at the time of the accident. Pilot error aside, where in this example would the responsibility lie?
Does anyone know the current talk regarding SODA's following the NTSB's recommendations to the FAA following the Tallahassee Incident Report?
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Well I don't know if they want to change it and how far they will go by changing it, but I do know from reading the incident report and talking to the AOPA and the Association Colors in Cockpit, original founded in Australia by Dr. Arthur Pape, and now there is another one in Germany founded by the same reason, that it is questioned that this accident really happened due to color vision.
The accident happened during the night, usually it is way easier to see PAPI and VASI lights then. Also both, the Captain and the flight engineer reported to the NTSB that they saw always the right order of colors, white, white, red, red...
Also an accident never occurs due to one mistake..., there is usually always backup, in this case the captain and the flight engineer, who would have said something if they would have seen that they were to low, because it is their life too.
But I guess this topic has been discussed in this forum, so I won't write more about it.
There is actually an ICAO medical standard, but it is just saying what countries need to have in their medical exams in order to meet the ICAO requirements to be a member of the ICAO.
The accident happened during the night, usually it is way easier to see PAPI and VASI lights then. Also both, the Captain and the flight engineer reported to the NTSB that they saw always the right order of colors, white, white, red, red...
Also an accident never occurs due to one mistake..., there is usually always backup, in this case the captain and the flight engineer, who would have said something if they would have seen that they were to low, because it is their life too.
But I guess this topic has been discussed in this forum, so I won't write more about it.
There is actually an ICAO medical standard, but it is just saying what countries need to have in their medical exams in order to meet the ICAO requirements to be a member of the ICAO.
To be brutyly honest there should be one test taken at one specfic location, if u fail u fail and that is that. If you are 1 or 2 out then a re examination should be at the testers discression. Surely if u fail in one place and pass in another something is not right. I myself may fail the CAA colour eye thingy at gatwick when i do go and get my class 1 even though i passed the one i took a year ago. I just god hope i do pass lol. If i fail i will question it as i passed before but hey, its up to the person testing you i think. His or her input must be taken into account
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RT,
Unfortantly colourvision is a very difficult subject when it comes to testing. There are so many different opinions to its importance, and individual tests accuracy.
The trouble i had with was with the beyne lantern. The white in the lantern is a very dodgy shade of white. i said that it was yellow, however then the real yellow popped up and i realised i'd failed.
I didn't like it because the test is supposed to test if you can differentiate between the colours, not to test your opinion to what the colour is.
The test I did in germany involved the examiner showing me each colour first and telling me what it was. The colours were then randomly shown to me, each colour being shown twice (still in a random order). I passed this.
I think this makes for a better test.
Unfortantly colourvision is a very difficult subject when it comes to testing. There are so many different opinions to its importance, and individual tests accuracy.
The trouble i had with was with the beyne lantern. The white in the lantern is a very dodgy shade of white. i said that it was yellow, however then the real yellow popped up and i realised i'd failed.
I didn't like it because the test is supposed to test if you can differentiate between the colours, not to test your opinion to what the colour is.
The test I did in germany involved the examiner showing me each colour first and telling me what it was. The colours were then randomly shown to me, each colour being shown twice (still in a random order). I passed this.
I think this makes for a better test.
That is a good point, the test in germany is definatly easier. But the one at the CAA i think is better for rl situations, you may be looking at landing lights and reading them wrongly. You may relise when you are on the ground but you do need to be able to distunguse the colours on your own without being told. It is a bit of a grey area and maybe im being too hard lined. See how i like it when i fail my class 1 on the grounds of colour defiancy. anyway good luck with your training, feel free to add me to ya buddy list and we can trade stories of avaiton bliss
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Well, why not making a flight test, where the tested person has to prove that he is able to fly, there you can check if he can read PAPI lights, rotating airport beacons, runway lights, taxiway lights and navigation lights from other aircrafts...
Seems to be fair to me...
Seems to be fair to me...
well lol. its pretty rubbishy aint it really. I think i wll try and book a class 1 medical before christmas, i also want to do an apptitude test on Dec 2th i think the date is, so might try to get it done sooner. anyway ifu got any thoughts on the medical please drop me a pm.
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Mmmm
If you are an airliner pilot you almost do not fly visual approaches.
So no VASI or PAPI. thats something for PPL pilots use.
The big birds fly ILS, NDB and DME approaches. Check your instrument needles. etc. Not much visual and if I am flying the cessna I almost almost never use the PAPI/VASI.
You do a visual approach by aiming your aircraft a little bit under the rwy treshold. Keep 65 MPH and you'll be OK.
They test you because you need to distinguish the tower and the cockpit crt lights correctly.
some people have got problems to distinguish the colour magenta and thats a comon colour in the cockpit.
They say to people like us that the most of us can distinguish the colours correctly in a normall flight. But if something goes wrong and you need to act real fast and correctly. Most ''expert'' people say we have problems than to distinguish.
I know Its ****** up but at this moment we have got to deal with it.
Good luck to Ya'll
So no VASI or PAPI. thats something for PPL pilots use.
The big birds fly ILS, NDB and DME approaches. Check your instrument needles. etc. Not much visual and if I am flying the cessna I almost almost never use the PAPI/VASI.
You do a visual approach by aiming your aircraft a little bit under the rwy treshold. Keep 65 MPH and you'll be OK.
They test you because you need to distinguish the tower and the cockpit crt lights correctly.
some people have got problems to distinguish the colour magenta and thats a comon colour in the cockpit.
They say to people like us that the most of us can distinguish the colours correctly in a normall flight. But if something goes wrong and you need to act real fast and correctly. Most ''expert'' people say we have problems than to distinguish.
I know Its ****** up but at this moment we have got to deal with it.
Good luck to Ya'll